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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: ollie_r on Tuesday 08 October 13 20:47 BST (UK)
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Hi, I'm trying to locate 18th/19th century BMDs for the West Lane Wesleyan chapel (http://www.haworth-village.org.uk/local/go.asp?group=151) in Haworth. They do not seem to be available online, or held either at the National Archives or the WYAS. I've asked them directly, but have not heard back from them yet.
I know that they (at least partially) exist as I have a copy of someone's research from the 1980's which makes reference to the marriage records.
Does anyone know where they may be? Or how far back their records go?
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You could try contacting Bradford.
http://www.bradford.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/DFDF49C8-058A-4C93-B110-6127D59DBA0F/0/PARISHANDNONCONFORMISTREG.pdf
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Ollie
Are they not covered by the Non-conformist records collection listed on ancestry for West Yorkshire?
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Bear in mind that before 1837, there was no such thing as a Wesleyan (or Methodist) marriage. The only bodies allowed to conduct marriages before then were the established Church of England, Quakers and Jews, and unless there is evidence of a Jewish or Quaker connection, the normal place to look for a marriage would be the C of E parish registers.
After 1837 there were other possibilities, though in many cases, while non-conformist church and chapel buildings were licensed for marriages, their ministers weren't authorised to register them, so superintendent registrars used to attend to carry out the registration, bringing the registers with them.
These registers, as far as I know, remain in the register offices, and aren't online as part of, for example, Ancestry's collections of West Yorkshire parish and non-conformist registers. Marriages should be included in the GRO and local indexes, and if you're using YorkshireBMD (or one of the other UKBMD sites) you'll see the location given as "Authorised Building".
Once a chapel had its own registers, when these were full they may have been deposited somewhere and thus potentially be available for public inspection. Registers held in register offices are normally not available to view.
Arthur
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As far as I can see from my copy of the WYAS Nonconformist Registers Collection Guide, they do not hold the records for West Lane Wesleyan.
It is possible that they have not been deposited anywhere and are still in the possession of the church/chapel. Perhaps a telephone call to the resident minister might be a good idea as I see that it is still in operation.
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The link I provided for Bradford gives this info
Lower Town Wesleyan Haworth,
Bishops Transcripts, 1660 - 1847 Mf.
Briths/baptisms 1806 - 1837, Burials 1807 - 1837
Transcripts 1645 - 1995, 6 vols.
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familysearch has birth/bap 1806-1837 under batch C086031
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Thanks for your replies;
@Clever clogs:
Alas, they are not on Ancestry or any other website, that I can discern. Ancestry won't have them if the WYAS/NA don't!
@libby9/mazi:
Alas, these refer to a different Wesleyan chapel in a nearby town (Oxenhope) which was built in 1805. The chapel I'm after is in Haworth itself, next door to the baptist chapel at the north end of town, and was built in 1744. Having said that, it is strange that these records have been deposited but the ones I'm after (pre- and post-1837) have not.
@BumbleB:
I think I'm going to have to phone them, yes :)
My 2nd-great grandparents were both married here in 1874, and their children were also baptised here, according to research my late grandfather commissioned in the 1980's - unfortunately the researcher neglected to state where he found them!
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Although this doesn't help the situation any.
Doing research in my local area, found same situation regarding Wesleyan records not being submitted might be in the chapel safe? (Inc my own family)
Brian
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Ollie
Keighley library holds a large number of parish registers and transcripts/indexes etc for the surrounding area. I could go and have a look for you next week if you like.
Keighley and District FHS have also transcribed and published a large number of registers PR and NC, so there's maybe something in their records, which I can also check out.
If you will either post some details or PM me, I will see what I can do. Away from home this week, so it will be Monday at the earliest before I can go there.
Regards
Ellen
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If anyone knows ? it will be this website-Ask away!!
http://www.kdfhs.org.uk/index.php?option=com_contact&view=contact&id=1&Itemid=56
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Hi Ollie
Currently in Keighley library and can see register index for baptisms for West Lane Wesleyan chapel, Haworth. Period covered appears to be for 1874 - 1928. May be marriages as well. The index is bundled with a number of other non conformist indexes.
If you wish me to look at a reference, please can you provide details of what you are wanting to check out.
Ellen
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Hi Ellen,
Thanks for looking - sorry for not getting back to you sooner. It is good to know they hold those records, though it's not so good news that they perhaps only start in 1874. That's 130 years worth of missing data :'(
If you do find yourself there again one day, could you please look up Noah Robertshaw's marriage in August 1875, and if any of his children were baptised there in the early 1880's? (e.g. my g-grandfather, born June 1882). Also if there are earlier records for the church hidden away in that pile of non-conformist records.
Thanks!
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Hi Ollie
Nipped in there for a quick half hour. This is what I gleaned. (in alpha order as listed in the transcriptions)
Baptisms at the West Lane Wesleyan
Arthur - son of Noah and Ann of Haworth 26.7.1878
Helena - daughter of Noah and Ann of Coldshaw 28.7. 1884
Herbert - son of Noah and Ann of Kirkgate 19.10.1876
Jesse - child of Noah and Ann of Coldshaw 14.6.1882
Thomas Alfred - son of Noah and Sarah of Haworth 8.1.1892
Walter - son of Noah and Ann of Haworth 27.6.1880.
Bridge House Wesleyan, Haworth
ROBERTSHAW _ Dorothy May dau of Arthur & Annie 173 Hebden Road, Haworth, born May 6 1916
" - Joseph Arnold son of Arthur & Annie 40 Rigton St, Bradford born July 14 1920
Some ROBERTSHAW, ROBARDSHAW, ROBARTSHAW and ROBERDSHAW listings at Denholme chapel and Denholme Wesleyan - these appear to have lived in Cullingworth 1798- 1831 and later at 1876, 1881 and 1900s for the Denholme Wesleyan.
Keighley Wesleyan
Percy son of John & Mary Ann of Ebor House, Haworth, born April 14 1871, engine tender
John son of John & Mary Ann of Ebor House, Haworth, born Dec 10 1874, engine tender
Mill Hey (Primitive) chapel, Haworth
Thomas William, son of George and Emily of New Road, Haworth born Sept 10 1877, weaver
Lynda, daughter of Fred & Kate of Coldshaw b. March 19 1897 Labourer
Alvin, son of Thomas William and Jane Ann of 2 Spring Row, Harden nr. Bingley born March 15 1903
No marriages available for West Lane Wesleyan, either in transcript, or on microfiche. (only baptisms)
So either records haven't been handed in, or they have been handed in but have not been filmed, but no transcription exists at present at any rate. The other possibility is that the chapel may not have been licensed for marriages (I don't know, but not all were) so could they have married in the register office rather than the parish church if they were both Wesleyans? If you haven't got the certificate, and you want the information, it looks like you will have to purchase this.
Hope this helps you.
Ellen
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Hi Ollie
West Lane registers along with other Wesleyan and Methodist chapels would have been grouped together under the circuit returns. Usually 6 chapels and sometimes from quite distant parts. Unfortunately when the transcribers from Ancestry came to record the results, many times they seem to have either put the lot under the name of the chapel on the first page or under the title non-conformist. The way round this (if you want to browse the chapel registers and IF they are on Ancestry) is to find the reference letters and code and search that way or find which circuit West Lane belonged to.
Dave
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Ellen:
Thank you so much for looking :D Jesse is my great-grandfather; I will have to make a visit to see these myself - were they originals or microfilm? Do you know what kind of general records the library holds for Haworth (highways, law and order, poor etc.?) or at least if they have an index? I haven't been able to find one online yet. I will be happy to repay the favour if you need some research doing at the British Library or SOG for you, since I'm not too far from them both.
Dave:
Good call with regards to them being amalgamated with the circuit records, but I'm pretty sure that Ancestry/NA don't have them, even under a mis-categorisation. Though it's always possible. I've tried getting in touch with the church since it's still running, but to no avail yet - again will probably necessitate a visit. Hopefully they're all sat in a box in someone's office somewhere, and it's just a case of finding someone who knows! (Same story happened not so long ago with the records for Wainsgate, Wadsworth; I understand that they're now with the WYJS.)
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Hi Ollie
I used a transcribed index to post you the details, but they do have the records filmed and available on microfiche.
Some local records for Keighley and immediate area are held at Keighley library. I'm going there tonight so I'll try and have a look at what they might hold for Haworth. Poor law records pre 1834 would probably be catalogues under Quarter Sessions, and therefore would be held at Wakefield. I did some work a couple or three years ago on Poor law union records, which dealt with correspondence between the Keighley workhouse and London PL commissioners, which was sponsored by TNA and the period which was transcribed is now available via their Discovery catalogue - I think it was something like 1838 through to 1850? A lot of Irish had arrived in Keighley in this period, partly because of the famine, so there was a lot of correspondence about them, and also much discussion about outdoor relief. You should take a look in there as there may be something pertaining to Haworth that interests you. I don't think the workhouse admission records have survived though, but again, may be wrong on this, and they would be at Wakefield as far as I know.
The library have a very eclectic mix of holdings - they certainly have a fabulous range of street maps, and the local history society has just been given a lot of rates books for turn of the century including many outlying areas that had been mouldering in a town hall basement. They also have early police records that they are currently transcribing and digitalising, so there's lots of information around, but maybe not so much online as yet. Takes a while you know.
You should certainly come to Yorkshire (in the spring) and check out what they hold locally.
Regards
Ellen
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Hi Ollie,
Just in case you are unable to get there for some time. I took this in 2007 but Haworth is one of those places where the rain comes sideways and the locals can trace their ancestors back to stones, so I don't expect that it will have changed much.
Dave
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Hi Ollie
Had a very quick look at the archival holdings at the library - they do seem to have some information such as guardians minutes for the workhouse and also some papers prior to that such as settlement orders, bastardy orders, juries lists, leases and sale of land, registers of members on he Wesleyan Methodist circuit etc for Haworth, Keighley and area. The indexing is under BK as the main listing. e.g. BK1/3/1/65
Just looking at the entries for Haworth on WYJS online catalogue, Haworth overseers and outdoor relief in early nineteenth century is under 33D80, Bingley and Haworth township records, which are held at Bradford. They've also got a transcript of baptisms at Methodist churches, including West Lane for 1839-1928 - not sure if this is the same as the one they hold at Keighley or if the Bradford one is for longer period. On the face of it, it seems to be for earlier, but without seeing it who knows? Then there's the Haworth West Lane Wesleyan and Sunday school records, ref 62D81/4 - Including Haworth Brotherhood minutes 1907-1915, collection journals 1940-1956, Dramatic Society minutes 1938-1942, leaders' minutes 1884-1937, Mutual Improvement Society register 1888-1897, pew rents 1894-1943, pulpit notices 1942-1952, society stewards' book 1935-1942, Sunday School minutes and attendance registers 1865-1964 and trustees' minutes 1916-1947. Again, these are listed as being held at Bradford.
I think you need to get yourself up to Yorkshire to look into all of this more closely.