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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Poets Girl on Sunday 06 October 13 17:48 BST (UK)
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Hi
Can anyone help, My G/G/ G/ Granddad was George Johnstone born about 1798/99 I think in Annan (a draper in Blackburn around 1840 times) he Married Elizabeth Carruthers in around 1824 , she was born about 1800 and 1801 but not sure where, and had my G/G/ Gran Elizabeth Johnstone the same year, (Elizabeth Johnstone married William Jardine also a Draper in 1848) If anyone can help I will be over the moon. Dates and places would be wonderful , as I am struggling , Bless you
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Hi,
Could this be their marriage? -
11 May 1824 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, Lancashire
George Johnston - tea dealer, bachelor, this parish
Elizabeth Carruthers - spinster, this parish
Wits - May Birnie & Henry Birnie
Married by Licence by R Garnett
Info from http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
JJ
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Hi just posting this as occupation is a Draper?
George Johnstone 40 occ Draper b Scotland
Hellen? 14
Robert 10
Residing at Syke Street, Blackburn
Census ref HO107/502/ 10/34 / 4
Keyboard86
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Hi again Robert Johnston 20 occ Travelling Draper b Blackburn is at 19, Kingston Street Hull in 1851
Census ref HO107/2363/491/14
In 1861 he is back with his parents as a Fund Holder George/Elizabeth both born Scotland plus a Mary Ann aged 25 born Blackburn at 20, Queen Ann Street, Liverpool
Census ref RG09/2696/56/47
Also in the household is a William Rickerdson/Richardson 38 b Scotland with newly married wife Josephine 32 b Blackburn.
Is this your George/Elizabeth?
Keyboard86
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OK let's presume 1861 is your family, in 1841 is this family:-
Elizabeth Johnstone 40 b Scotland
Johnstone 15
Johnstone 30
Josephine 12
Mary 7
George 3
Francis 7
Walter 4
Residing at Green Walk, Bispham, Layton with Warbeck, Lancashire
Census ref HO107/495/ 2/22 / 12
Keyboard86
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Hi , J Jen and Keyboard 86.
Well a big thank you, what I know is they were married 1824, G/G /Gran born same year , October I think, on the marriage cert, one of the witnesses is a Helen Johnstone, we know she had sister born 30th December 1834 in Blackburn Presbyterian Chapel called Mary Ann Johnstone and a brother George Johnstone 1838 but that is all I know,
Thanks for helping .
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Hi , J Jen and Keyboard 86.
Well a big thank you, what I know is they were married 1824, G/G /Gran born same year , October I think, on the marriage cert, one of the witnesses is a Helen Johnstone, we know she had sister born 30th December 1834 in Blackburn Presbyterian Chapel called Mary Ann Johnstone and a brother George Johnstone 1838 but that is all I know,
Thanks for helping .
;D Well looking at the 1841/51 census I posted above it looks like you have a lot more siblings of Elizabeth to look into!
All the best in your research, any problems give us all a shout ok.
Keyboard86
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Hi again have you any evidence that the marriage of George Johnston to Elizabeth Carruthers is your George, the only reason I ask, is to go from a Tea Dealer to a Draper seems pretty dramatic?
Keyboard86
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Hi,
Drapers and tea dealers had same origins, on Elizabeth's and Williams marriage cert it states that George Johnstone (her father ) was a Draper and William's Father a Gentleman. Elizabeth and William (he was a Jardine ) were married on the 7th December 1948 at Mount Street Chapel in Blackburn, do not know if this helps .The Jardines were Prestbyterians, do not know about the Johnstones ?
Many Thanks
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Hi just in case this is a brother of George and possibly the 1841 Francis and Walter?
1851 census
Peter Johnston 44 occ Tea Dealer b Scotland
Elizabeth 40
James 18
Francis 16
Walter 14
Elizabeth Ann 11
John William 9
Mary Jane 5
All others b Blackburn
Residing at Lark Hill Cottage, Nugley Street, Blackburn
Census ref HO107/2259/300/8
1841 shows Peter aged 35 occ Tea Dealer b Scotland with James 9 born in county and a John 17 occ Assistant b Scotland
Residing at Craven Heifer, Blackburn
Census ref HO107/502/ 12/7 / 7
Keyboard86
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Hi, Will take a close look at the info you have kindly sent, thanks for the help Keyboard86. Poets Girl
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Hi again, just located this, it would appear the Johnston/e family and the Richardsons were friends/related in some way, as William Pool Richardson occ Farmer of Annan in the county of Dumfries married Josephine Johnston of Liverpool by license 1st December 1856 Holy Trinity Church, Liverpool.
By 1871 Josephine is a Widow and all her children are born in Scotland
Keyboard86
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Hi,
Thanks again Keyboard86, I know that George Johnstone should be from Annan, why I say this is because my G/G Grandfather was Joseph Jardine the Blackburn Poet and in the George Hull book it states that he was from Johnstones on both sides and they came from Annandale ( Mary Johnston was his Grandmother ) so Annan looks a good bet, if only I could find George Johnstone there , he would have been born around 1799.
Many Thanks for your interest.
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Hi again, this 1851 census would appear to offer further clues as to the birth place of George Johnston/e
1851 Census
George Johnston 53 occ Brillie Landed Proprietor, Farmer of 50 Acres employing 3 Labs, Draper Master employing 2 Shopmen & 2 Apprentices b Middlebie
Elizabeth 50 b Gretna
Josephine 21 b England
Mary Ann 16 b England
George 12 b England
Residing at Newington Lodge, Annan, Dumfrieshire
Census ref HO107/512/13/1
Keyboard86
PS There is a Middlebie Genealogy Resources & Parish register site which may help out.
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Hi Keyboard86,
Thank you , that is fantastic info and such a help, I have been struggling . Many thanks for all your valuable help .
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;D No problem, get back will you if that site was of use.
In 1871 census
Elizabeth Johnston 70 Widow Boarding Housekeeper? b Scotland
Mary A Battie 35 Daughter occ Assisting Mother in ?? b Blackburn
William Mcwhae? 27 Lodger b Scotland
Residing at James Street, Blackburn
Census ref RG10/4182/20/14
Very difficult to read if Mary A is a Widow and the occupations fully?
Keyboard86
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OK again, looking at 1861 we have with Elizabeth & William Jardine a Joseph b c 1850 Blackburn is this therefore Joseph in 1851?
1851 Census
John Coulthart 47 b Cummertrees
Helen 47 b GRETNA
Elizabeth 18 b England
Joseph 11 b England
Helen 9 b Kirkpatrick
George 8 b Kirkpatrick
Barbara 6 b Kirkpatrick
Robert 5 b Kirkpatrick
Elizabeth Jardine 26 Married Niece b England
Joseph Jardine 1 Nephew b England
Residing at Redhouse Farm, Kirkpatrick Fleming, Dumfries
Census ref HO107/837/64/11
1841 census
John Colthard 37 Dumfries
Ellen 37 Dumfries
John 10 England
Elizabeth 8 England
Andrew 3 England
Joseph 1 England
Hellen 1 month b Dumfries
Residing as same as 1851
Census ref HO107/837/4/2
Keyboard86
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Hi Keyboard,
Thanks for fantastic info, yes this is my family, going to have a good look now. I knew Elizabeth Jardine had a sister called Helen and did find a Coulthard connection but this is brilliant and will help me put the puzzle together .
Many, Many Thanks
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Hi Keyboard,
Thanks for fantastic info, yes this is my family, going to have a good look now. I knew Elizabeth Jardine had a sister called Helen and did find a Coulthard connection but this is brilliant and will help me put the puzzle together .
Many, Many Thanks
No problem, looking at the pob/yob of Helen Colthart and the fact Elizabeth is shown as Niece it could be Helen is the sister of Elizabeth Carruthers, Elizabeth Johnston's Hellen was aged 14 in 1841?
Keyboard86
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Hi Keyboard.
This is Joseph Jardine as a baby visiting with his Mother, she would have been 26yrs in that census. Joe did have a sister Elizabeth but she was younger, so looks like Elizabeth showing off her new baby to her family, will look into it more.
Yours gratefully Poets Girl . P.S. I am giving that site you suggested a go , once I find my way around it !
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Hi Keyboard,
Well did send a post but it seems to have disappeared , have found Elizabeth Carruthers born 1800 in Gretna , father Robert and Mother Helen , phew !
Thank you
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Hi again, just a few bits and pieces re the Coulthart family, they in turn move to Liverpool and it would appear that Helen/Barbara and George marry into the Nicholson family:-
Helen Coulthart to James Nicholson March qtr 1865 Liverpool 8b 425
George Coulthart to Mary A Nicholson June qtr 1866 Liverpool 8b 266
Barbara Coulthart to Thomas Nicholson March qtr 1870 W Derby 8b 631
George is a Widower in 1871 looks to marry a Mary Copner Dec qtr 1874 W Derby 8b 874
There is a 2 year old George Coulthart with a John and Mary Ann Nicholson & family in 1871 shown as Grandson
Elizabeth Coulthart marries Alexander Aitken June qtr 1858 Liverpool 8b 173
Keyboard86
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Hi Keyboard86,
Good job, and thanks again. Regarding past info George Johnstone did marry Elizabeth Carruthers at St Mary's Blackburn, you were correct. The witnesses were Mary and Henry Birnie, well I found that Elizabeth Fathers, father was Robert Carruthers too and he married Agnes Birny (same name spelt differently) so connection made . I have loads to do to sort this lot out , but have many more relatives in Blackburn to track down !
High Five, from Poets Girl
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Hi again, just in case this is the brother of George Johnston I showed in 1841/51;-
Intended Marriage 27th October 1828 Bolton Le Moors
Peter Johnston 23 Batchelor occ Draper residing John Street, Blackburn
Elizabeth Haslam 19 Spinster residing Flash Street, Bolton Le Moors
Father James Haslam
Keyboard86