RootsChat.Com

Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: BAC3 on Saturday 05 October 13 12:38 BST (UK)

Title: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: BAC3 on Saturday 05 October 13 12:38 BST (UK)
This gentleman arrived aboard the Randolph at Sydney on 20/08/1849 and was immediately granted a Ticket of Leave to work in the Bathurst District......this was cancelled on 25/07/1851 by the Carcoar Bench after he absented himself from the District.   And that is the last mention of him.
Hopefully somebody can help fill in the missing post-1851 details about his life.

He was born c1835 in Bath, Somerset, the son of John and Ann Luckman.

Thank you

BAC3
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 05 October 13 18:50 BST (UK)
Bathurst district 1851 = GOLDRUSH  ;D

Newspaper gives his name reversed - John Alexander LUCKMAN.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article12928961
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 October 13 00:44 BST (UK)
Hi Tony :)

He is Alexander LUCKMAN on the 1841 census with parents John and Ann and Alexander John on all available online records to 1851.

Other than the newspaper snippet I can find no trace of him however there are John LUCKMAN's in both Tasmania and Qld.  Co-incidentally the John LUCKMAN in Tasmania was born in 1835 however his birth registration is on the Tasmanian Index.

Possibly used an alias if he left the district.  Goldrush also in the Colony of Victoria.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 06 October 13 01:20 BST (UK)
and was  immediately granted a Ticket of Leave to work in the Bathurst District

I find this interesting and would be interested to learn more about such events from those who have more knowledge than me.

I have certainly read about convicts who were granted leave, pardons and freedoms very soon after arrival, but these were men whose special skills and professions were desperately needed in  the colonies-draughtsmen, instrument makers etc.

How was this granted to a 17 year old?

Sue
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Sunday 06 October 13 01:32 BST (UK)
Sue, he was one of the 'convict exiles' ;)

Convict transportation to New South Wales effectively ceased in 1842 but between 1849-50 exiles were transported. Exiles had served part of their sentence in a penitentiary in Britain and were granted a conditional pardon or ticket of leave on arrival in the Colony.
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 October 13 01:49 BST (UK)
His TOL states he was 18 years of age. 
The handwritten comments are difficult to read.

Transferred to Carcoar 21 Jun 1850.
Letter ?required......
Cancelled 4 Apr 1851 for abscond from district.
Gov s**** ?no List Reqd.


His seven year sentence for larcency would have been completed on 12 Jul 1851.

Cando
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: muss on Sunday 06 October 13 02:01 BST (UK)
HI

John Alexander Lackman ( may have changed name ?)

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/87862823?searchTerm=lackman alexander&searchLimits=

Muss
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 October 13 02:07 BST (UK)
Very speculative research....

Marriage in Qld - cert should list parents of bride and groom.  You can now purchase certificates online an immediately download AUD$20.
https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/BirIndexQry.m
1860/C182
LUCKMANN   John   
CHATTERTON   Elisabeth Ann


There are frequent mentions of an Elisabeth/Elizabeth LUCKMAN in the Qld press .
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper

No children recorded on Qld bdm.

Death
1890/C3526
LUCKMAN  Elizabeth   

There were also gold rushes in New Zealand and California and as I mentioned previously, he may have changed his name.

Cando
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: Floozy on Sunday 06 October 13 02:15 BST (UK)
HI

John Alexander Lackman ( may have changed name ?)

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/87862823?searchTerm=lackman alexander&searchLimits=

Muss


More than likely not the same person Muss  this guy in Trove if the same person got married and had children very late 1890's
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 October 13 02:17 BST (UK)
HI

John Alexander Lackman ( may have changed name ?)

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/87862823?searchTerm=lackman alexander&searchLimits=

Muss

I doubt this is your man

Birth in Victoria
LACKMANN John Alexander
Father Augustus Ferdi Mother Sarah RODGERS
At Digby   1864  Reg#2011

Marriage in WA
LACKMANN    John Alexander
GOFFEY    Catherine
District Kalgoorlie  Reg#178    1896

Possible death
Death
LACKMANN John A
1936  District Northam  Reg#120

Cando

Edit - Descendants of Augustus and Sarah were pioneer settlers, along with my grandparents, in my local district.
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: cando on Sunday 06 October 13 02:38 BST (UK)
Wife Catherine died in 1946 wife of A. LACKMANN.  Newspaper snips refer to John Alexander as "Alick".

Buried in the Wyalkatchem Cemetery
LACKMAN  Catherine. Wife of Alexander, mother of Florence and John. 24 May 1946 aged 74 years
LACKMANN  Alex  Aged 75 years

Not your Alexander John LUCKMAN.

Cando
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: majm on Sunday 06 October 13 05:15 BST (UK)
 :)

NSW SRO has his surname as SUCKMAN

 ::)

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: BAC3 on Sunday 06 October 13 11:19 BST (UK)
Thank you for all the comments and suggestions.

One other thought did occur that a lot of convicts made their way to NZ but this, too, turned out negative.

BAC3 ???
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: trikidiki on Sunday 16 August 15 23:07 BST (UK)
What would happen to an exile who had been 'absent from district' if he returned/was 'captured'?

Would he be sent to prison?
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: majm on Monday 17 August 15 00:46 BST (UK)
What would happen to an exile who had been 'absent from district' if he returned/was 'captured'?

Would he be sent to prison?

Hi and welcome to RootsChat Triki,

When these people were transported, the colonies of Victoria and Queensland had not yet been hived off from the colony of New South Wales, so for the exile to be 'absent from district' would effectively mean absent from the three eastern seaboard colonies....

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-convict-records/index-to-convict-exiles/index-to-convict-exiles#about-the-index

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkhurst_apprentices

As I have understood it, the exiles had already served part of their sentence in Britain, and were basically released from the remainder of their sentence on landing in the colonies.   I may well be wrong, but I believe any further convictions would have been colonial convictions, and therefore dealt with according to the relevant colonial law. 

Cheers,  JM   
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: trikidiki on Monday 17 August 15 01:24 BST (UK)
I got the impression that 'district' was much more localised than that. Otherwise, why would he have had to have his 'district' changed from Bathurst to Carcoar in 1850?

The original post was as a result of a query I made to the poster. Alexander is an ancestor of mine and I have been tracing him from his birth, through his parents death, his conviction, time in Parkhurst and his exile to Australia. He did serve a good deal of time in Parkhurst (1844-1849) and as has been pointed out only had a few months to serve.

I did contact the Cowra Family History Group who did a quick search but couldn't find any more information. Only that he had an unclaimed letter at the 'Post Office'. I guess I may pay for them to do a more thorough search and perhaps find out more about the letter. If it was from England I have a feeling it may help fill in a missing link if it still exists.

He did serve a good deal of time in Parkhurst (1844-1849) and as has been pointed out only had a few months to serve.

Unfortunately his sister didn't fair too well after their parent's deaths either and led a life of crime and impropriety.
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: majm on Monday 17 August 15 01:36 BST (UK)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12928961 SMH 26 July 1851 ….. absent from Carcoar …. Just weeks after the official announcements re Gold discoveries at Ophir.   Ophir is so very near to Carcoar, much easier to get to Ophir from Carcoar than from Sydney…..
Notice that two lads from the Randolph were missing …. John Alexander Luckman and Joseph Morris …. Perhaps they both caught Gold Fever and RUSHED off to the Gold Rushes …..

:) NSW SRO has his surname as SUCKMAN  ::)



Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: majm on Monday 17 August 15 01:41 BST (UK)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/62215988 17 May 1851 Bathurst Free Press .... Gold Fever ...

Add
Joseph MORRIS, an exile (originally a ten year sentence dating from 1846 !) .... found not guilty of murder .....  noticing there's no mention of his absconding back in April 1851 with Mr Luckman ....   
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12948485 SMH 29 Aug 1853


Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: majm on Monday 17 August 15 04:55 BST (UK)
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/research-topics/convicts/new-south-wales-convict-records-lost-and-saved

Some interesting and informative comments re NSW convict records lost and saved.

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: trikidiki on Monday 17 August 15 09:55 BST (UK)
Hi

Thanks for the additional information.

I had the report of his TOL being cancelled and noticed another lad from his ship had gone missing at the same time. The goldrush looks a likely reason for his departure, from his previous behaviour in Parkhurst it is not unusual for him to not 'toe the line'.

If they had gone prospecting, as his 'co-escapee' appears to have 'returned', we can assume they didn't make their fortune. One hopes that Alexander may also have returned and the trail may not be stone cold.

A shame about the loss of records, as I'm always telling my wife, "I won't throw it out it might be useful one day".

Cheers

Dik
Title: Re: NSW: Alexander John LUCKMAN , Born 1835, Bath, Somerset
Post by: trikidiki on Thursday 14 September 17 19:28 BST (UK)
Could Alexander have made his fortune?

From Westport Times 7 August 1869.

Quote
A nugget was brought into the Union Bank, Rockhampton, on July 15th, from Mount Wheeler, Cawarral; it was found one foot from the surface and contains 258 ounces 11dwts. pure gold. This splendid nugget was discovered by a boy named Cadden, working with his father. Another nugget was found just under the ground in an adjoining claim, by a lad named Luckman, weighing 180 ounces and also placed in the Bank.