RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Juneys1 on Wednesday 02 October 13 12:46 BST (UK)
-
This search is in the same family as my previus search for missing John Bradshaw. Despite help, JB has not been found since 1904. We believe he deserted his famiy. Richard and Sarah are his parents. We have marriage certificate of John and Margaret Bradshaw dated August 1881, johns father shown as Richard, deceased. I can't find Richard elsewhere. I am not experienced in searching but entered all the details I knew but nothing comes up. If someone can advise I would be grateful. If someone comes up with any info it would be really helpful to me if you told me how and where you got it. Thanks so much Juneys1
-
Hi
First of all how old is John on the marriage certificate and what part of the country was he from?
Also is his fathers occupation shown or just deceased?
That should start us off :)
-
Hi Milliepede, thanks for your interest. On the marriage certificate, Richard the father is shown as a shoe dealer (shoe shop?) John is shown as 21, as is his wife Margaret. The marriage was at South Shields where they lived. John was born I believe in Richmond, Yorkshire. I do not hope to find John as searches have been made and help given on this site, but he disappeared. He was a seaman. We are now trying to find out about johns parents, Richard and Sarah Ann. The marriage certificate is the only evidence we have verifying the connection and name. The address on the certificate, showing where they were living is Green Street, South Shields. Any advice or help will be appreciated. Juneys1
-
Hi
Do you have John on earlier censuses with his parents? If not - where did you get his mothers name from?
If you do have them - when and where were Richard & Sarah born
The only 1871 entry I can find with those parents was John James and father Richard was a police constable
Also - no marriage for parents on freebmd
-
Apologies for one piece of misinformation. Sarah Ann Bradshaw is not known to be Richards wife. Got confused.
-
John married Margaret Atkinson in 1881 - do you have them on any census together (ie) 1891/1901
John was born I believe in Richmond, Yorkshire
Is this from a census entry? If not - where is it from?
-
Finally found them in 1891
John W Bradshaw 30 ship steward b Richmond Yorks
Margaret 30 b South Shields
Lydia 6 ditto
RG12 Piece 4153 Folio 108 Page 55
In 1901 - Margaret is shown as a washerwoman - married but also has a 3yr old dtr called Margaret. Later census shows both Margaret's in the WH
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N1F7-RH1
-
Thank you CaroleW. You found it quicker than I could look up my details! Yes, we know from the family that Lydia and Margaret were both Johns children. One other was born but died. We can only assume that as John worked on ships, he was away a lot......He deserted his family by leaving a ship at New York in 1904 and they went into workhouse. He did return, but we find the family in thenworkhousenagain 1911 and the mother is still shown as married, but no sign of John anywhere. This is why we believe he deserted family again. I have had help on this site to try to trace john, but to no avail. I am therefore now trying to trace his parents. John is shown in 1871 census Aged 12, living with William White who married Sarah Ann Bradshaw. Other Bradshaw children also shown, so we assume both parents already died? We have birth for John in Richmond, Sheffield. There were 2 sheffields at that time, one near Richmond, therefore his birth place shown as Sheffield. We do have other census showing john as a child living with William White and Sarah. Sorry if this is confused.
-
If only you had included the 1871 details in your post I could have saved nearly an hour trying to find him on the 1871 ::)
Was Sarah Ann Bradshaw shown as a widow when she married White? What is her father name on the marriage cert?
-
Other Bradshaw children also shown, so we assume both parents already died?
This is the full 1871 entry for Nether Hallam so we have all info upfront. All b Sheffield except Harriet
William White 26
Sarah A White 26
John Bradshaw 12 nephew
Albert Bradshaw 20 possibly Sarah's brother
Harriet Bradshaw 19 sister in law b Loxley
RG10 Piece 4661 Folio 88 Page 23
So - if that John Bradshaw is thought to be the same one who married in 1881 - Sarah should have a brother called Richard
Have you checked Sarah on the 1851 census?
-
1851 shows Sarah Ann Bradshaws parents were John & Ann and she had no brother Richard. 1841 also shows no Richard born to John & Ann
Sorry - I am not convinced this 1871 entry is the John you are looking for
-
Firstly apologies that I didn't give all info initially. That's because I was looking for Johns parents and didn't think it necessary to fill background in. I am still learning, sorry you spent unnecessary time looking stuff up. Thank you for what you have now said. Tomorrow I will check out all you have found against what I already have and try to ascertain where I am with this. Thanks Juneys1
-
Until I saw the 1891 census for John - I had no way of knowing for certain where he was born so couldn't start to find him on earlier censuses. I'm pretty certain he was illegitimate
I have been doing some more digging. The Albert Bradshaw on the 1871 is Sarah's brother as per the 1851/61 census entries but Harriet does not appear with them in 1861 so may be a cousin or similar
These are all Sarah Ann Bradshaws siblings from 1841-1861 - all b Sheffield
Robert 1833
John 1834
Charles 1839
Sarah Ann 1845
Emily 1847
Albert 1850
Unfortunately - the marriage of Sarah to William White is not online so I can't check her fathers name to confirm I have the right family in 1841-1861
There are only 7 entries on the 1861 for a Richard Bradshaw and I've checked them all and occ does not tie in with shoe maker - none were in the Sheffield/Nether Hallam area
-
Thank you again CaroleW. We were surprised at the shoe dealer (maker you said, maker, did we misread it?) if he really was a shoemaker,that really doesn't fit does it. So you think John illegitimate because we can't find his birth? I think it seems like we're back almost to square one......
I am on holiday at present, and we may be out most of the day, but I will try to recap. Do you think I should search again for John Bradshaw birth?. Juneys1
-
I've searched for a birth for him - if he was definitely born Richmond then that would be the registration district but nothing shows. I wasn't surprised as failure to register a birth only became a fineable offence in 1874/5 so there are lots of unregistered births prior to then.
No baptism showing online for him either. The 1891 entry shows him as John W but the marriage reg is just John. He is not found on the 1861/71/81 censuses with the profile given on the 1891 which is what makes me suspect he is illegitimate
I checked for female Bradshaw marriages in the Richmond RD up to 1871 - in case his mother married soon after his birth - but nothing comes up
There is always the possibility that he wasn't actually born as Bradshaw but that his mother married a Bradshaw and he took his stepfathers surname. However - there is no 1861/1871 entry in Yorkshire for a Richard Bradshaw with a son John unless the family moved out of Yorkshire
There is a Hull birth on freebmd for a John William Bradshaw in June qtr 1859 but in 1861 his father isn't Richard and he's a bricklayer
When you get back - have a look at the 1881 marriage cert and see if either of the witnesses was surname Bradshaw
Enjoy your holiday
-
Thanks for all this CaroleW. I have a copy of the certificate on my iPad here. I have tried copy and pasting it here, but it won't do it for some reason. The witnesses were John J Atkinson and what looks like Margaret J Foreman. The surname is hard to read. My problem at present present is that I have nothing printed out with me so comparing various info is quite difficult. I don't get home til 17th, so I think it will mainly have to wait,malthough i cant leave it entirely alone! i will forward your comments on to my nephew in Australia who has been doing this and wider family research to see what he can now make of it all!
Thank you again Juneys1
-
No problem. I'd hoped one of the witnesses may have been a Bradshaw but looks like we are back to square one.
Put this on the back burner for now and just enjoy the rest of your holiday