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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Chrisvp on Sunday 29 September 13 17:21 BST (UK)

Title: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Chrisvp on Sunday 29 September 13 17:21 BST (UK)
I am doing my wife's genealogy and have hit a brick wall. Thus far I have:
Ben Albert Shaw b. 1889 I believe in Swinton.
John William Shaw b. 1846 Wales married to Mary Shepard.
William Shaw b.1822 Swinton married to Ann.
Now here is where I can't make a firm connection, I believe Williams father was a John Shaw and his mother Elizabeth just can't prove it and I did find a mention somewhere about Johns lineage,
"John son of George son of Jarvis son of William" unfortunately since I downloaded IOS7 I can't find any of my references!!!!

Any help or hints would be much appreciated. I believe that the Shaw Familiy goes back many generations in the Swinton area, just have to find those direct links.
Regards,
Chrisvp
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: jacquelineve on Sunday 29 September 13 17:37 BST (UK)

  Have you found Wlm(1822) in 1841 census, was he still with parents or living near.

  His marriage cert will give fathers name.

Jackie
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 29 September 13 17:52 BST (UK)
I am doing my wife's genealogy and have hit a brick wall. Thus far I have:

Ben Albert Shaw b. 1889 I believe in Swinton.

John William Shaw b. 1846 Wales married to Mary Shepard.


Just to establish John William Shaw with his family on the censuses

1901 census  mother Mary has remarried
RG13; Piece: 4402; Folio: 20; Page: 31
Shaw children living with George & Mary SMITH
John W 19, Horace 18, Percy 14, BEN A 12, Joe C 8 & Mary L SHAW 5

1891 RG12; Piece: 3855; Folio: 112; Page: 20
John Wm Shaw 45 North NK, Wales occ Coal miner
Mary 36
George E 16
Laura 12
John W 9
Horace 7
Percy 3
Ben Albert 1

1881 RG11; Piece: 4683; Folio: 15; Page: 23
74 Albert St Rotherham
John William Shaw 30 Wales Coal miner
Mary 28 Epworth Yorkshire
Harriet Ann 9
George Edward 6
Annie Jane Eliz. 4
Laura 2

1871 RG10; Piece: 4510; Folio: 140; Page: 28
John William Shaw 25 Swinton
Mary 18 Epworth
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 29 September 13 17:56 BST (UK)
for info. in case you don't have this

Canada, Soldiers of the First World War, 1914-1918
Ben Albert Shaw
Birth Date:   23 Oct 1889
Birth Location:   Swinton, Yorkshire, England
Relative:   Mrs Mary Shaw (original reads surname SMITH)
Regiment Number:   27681

Ben Albert Shaw
Birth Year:   abt 1890
Death Age:   68
Death Date:   22 May 1958
Death Location:   Penticton
Registration number:   1958-09-006266
BCA Number:   B13237
GSU Number:   2033178

Ben Albert Shaw
Barbara Maxwell
Marriage Date:   18 Jul 1923
Marriage Location:   Merritt
Registration number:   1923-09-264420
BCA Number:   B13746
GSU Number:   2074316

Ben Albert Shaw
Age:   22
Date of Arrival:   2 Dec 1911
Vessel:   Megantic
Port of Arrival:   Halifax, Nova Scotia
Port of Departure:   Liverpool, England

Ben Albert Shaw
Birth Date:   22 Dec 1888
Christening Date:   3 Jan 1889
Christening Place:   Swinton (near Rotherham), Yorkshire, England
Age at Christening:   0
Mother's Name:   Harriet Ann Shaw
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 29 September 13 18:01 BST (UK)
Just trying to track back so I can see who and where William is  ;D

I can see John W & Mary in census back to 1881 and possibly 1871 where he is in Hunslet and states he was born Swinton.  Thanks Ladyhawk they are the ones I found.

Where is he in 1861 and 1851  :-\

I can't see a John W Shaw marriage to a Mary Shepard either.

Rosie
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 29 September 13 18:10 BST (UK)
Just trying to track back so I can see who and where William is  ;D

Where is he in 1861 and 1851  :-\



There’s a John Shaw born 1847 Swinton parents John & Ann on 1851 census  ???
HO107; Piece: 2345; Folio: 132; Page: 25

1861c RG 9; Piece: 3511; Folio: 34; Page: 5
 looks as if he's named William Shaw b1845 Wath Yorkshire

Oops there's also a William on the 1851 census  ::)
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Chrisvp on Sunday 29 September 13 18:11 BST (UK)
Thanks everyone,
On Ben Alberts marriage certificate he has his mother down as Mary Shepherd, spelled differently in various documents. I can't find William on the 1841 census but that doesn't mean he is not there,
I have at times found people on it who I swear I couldn't find before!
Regards,
Chrisvp
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Chrisvp on Sunday 29 September 13 18:15 BST (UK)
Hi everyone,
Name:    John William Shaw
Birth Date:    1847
Birthplace:   
Age:    23
Spouse's Name:   Mary Sheppard
Spouse's Birth Date:    1853
Spouse's Birthplace:   
Spouse's Age:    17
Event Date:    22 May 1870
Event Place:    Mexborough, York, England
Father's Name:   William Shaw
Mother's Name:   
Spouse's Father's Name:   George Sheppard
Spouse's Mother's Name:   
Race:   
Marital Status:   
Previous Wife's Name:   
Spouse's Race:   
Spouse's Marital Status:   
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:   
Indexing Project (Batch) Number:   M13534-6
System Origin:    England-VR
GS Film number:   1545730
Reference ID:    2:3DXJ16
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 29 September 13 18:16 BST (UK)
Thanks everyone,
On Ben Alberts marriage certificate he has his mother down as Mary Shepherd, spelled differently in various documents.

On the 1891 census he's noted as son of John & Mary but the baptism gives his mother as Harriet Ann whose the daughter of John & Mary  ???

Ben Albert Shaw
Birth Date:   22 Dec 1888
Christening Date:   3 Jan 1889
Christening Place:   Swinton (near Rotherham), Yorkshire, England
Mother's Name:   Harriet Ann Shaw

Percy Shaw
Birth Date:   13 May 1887
Christening Date:   31 Jul 1887
Christening Place:   Swinton (near Rotherham), Yorkshire, England
Father's Name:   John William Shaw
Mother's Name:   Mary

Laura Shaw
Birth Date:   23 Feb 1879
Christening Date:   13 Apr 1879
Christening Place:   Swinton (near Rotherham), Yorkshire, England
Father's Name:   John William Shaw
Mother's Name:   Mary
   

Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 29 September 13 18:19 BST (UK)
Thanks for the marriage, that was one spelling I didn't try and I didn't try familysearch as I would normally   ;D

Trying to do dinner at the same time  ::)

Rosie
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 29 September 13 18:30 BST (UK)
1851  HO107; Piece: 2506; Folio: 312; Page: 43
Duckspool
William Shaw 30 Swinton Yorkshire occ coachman
Anne 29 welshpool montgomeryshire
JOHN WILLIaM 3 ST Asaph Flintshire
Edward 2
Anne Eliza 4 MTHS
Elizabeth JONES 12
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Chrisvp on Sunday 29 September 13 18:36 BST (UK)
Dinner! It is only breakfast here!
This is beginning to become a little convoluted. I am pretty sure with the records I have that Bens parents were John William Shaw and Mary Shepard and that John Williams father was William.
When I figure out how to unravel IOS7 and find my references all will be clear like mud.
I have just found a website GENUKI: Wath upon Dearne with a huge amount of information on the Shaws in Yorkshire just have to figure out who belongs to who!
Regards,
Chrisvp
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Chrisvp on Sunday 29 September 13 18:38 BST (UK)
Thanks Ladyhawk,
I believe that is one of my references that ios7 has misplaced on my iPad.
 ???
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 30 September 13 08:29 BST (UK)
It certainly looks as though you have the correct parents for Ben  ;D


1851  HO107; Piece: 2506; Folio: 312; Page: 43
Duckspool
William Shaw 30 Swinton Yorkshire occ coachman
Anne 29 welshpool montgomeryshire
JOHN WILLIaM 3 ST Asaph Flintshire
Edward 2
Anne Eliza 4 MTHS
Elizabeth JONES 12

Born in Wales again  ;D
He was christened at St Asaph 10 September 1847, father was a coachman at Pengwern

So now we need Williams marriage to Anne, that should confirm his fathers name.   :)

Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 30 September 13 08:31 BST (UK)
Here they are 1861


1861 RG 9; Piece: 43; Folio: 100; Page: 31
Bell Yard St George London
William Shaw Widow 45 Swinton Yorkshire Coachman
JOHN Shaw 13 Flintshire
Edward 12
Anne 9
Jane 7 London Middx
Louisa 6 ‘’
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 30 September 13 08:51 BST (UK)
Nice one Ladyhawk  ;D

Louisa was born 3 December 1855 christened 27 January 1856 at St George Hanover Sq.

There are two birth registrations that could be her
Sept qtr 1855 
Shaw  Louisa
St.Geo.H.Sq    1a   208

March qtr 1856 
SHAW  Louisa   
St Geo H Sq    1a   191


Jane was born 2nd May 1853  ;)
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 30 September 13 09:37 BST (UK)
Great Rosie - obtaining a birth certificate of one of the children would give mother's maiden name
and would make it easier to find William & Ann's marriage

possibly William's 1822 christening Swinton parents John & Elizabeth Shaw
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N5VS-J9Z

Elizabeth same christening date/place & parents names
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JW3N-52Q

Sarah 1815
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N5VS-N2Q

there's also one for 1816 parents James & Ann Shaw
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NB4S-H84

There are a number christenings on familysearch for Welshpool Montgomeryshire c1820 with first name Ann - but which one  ???

I haven't come across a William Shaw born c 1822 occ Coachman on 1841 c  ???

Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Chrisvp on Monday 30 September 13 13:06 BST (UK)
Thanks!
Some of the info I have seen and some is new. It is a beginning, finding Ann has been a chore.
I cannot find William on the 1841 either, but he was a coachmen so maybe he was on the road and missed the census? More Shaws in Yorkshire than you can shake a stick at, figuring out who belongs to who is the hard part. I have got to go to work now. Hope to respond more later.
Cheers,
Chrisvp
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 30 September 13 14:07 BST (UK)
It looks as though William has remarried  ;D

1871  Station Street, Swinton
William Shaw age 54 Married occ Grocer bn Swinton
Jane Shaw age 54 Wife bn Belton, Lincolnshire
Edward Shaw age 22 Fireman at Colliery bn Wales
Jane Shaw age 18 Servant bn London, Middlesex
RG9 /4712 f9 p12
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 30 September 13 14:24 BST (UK)
There is a Jane Jenkinson bn Belton, Lincolnshire in 1861 Swinton   RG9/3511 f65 p18
A Widow occ Inn Keeper at The Miners Arms

Marriage September qtr 1863 
Bullmore    William       
Jenkinson    Jane       
Montgomery    Catherine       
SHAW    William       
Rotherham    9c   550   
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 30 September 13 17:06 BST (UK)

There is a Jane Jenkinson bn Belton, Lincolnshire in 1861 Swinton   RG9/3511 f65 p18
A Widow occ Inn Keeper at The Miners Arms

Marriage September qtr 1863 
Bullmore    William       
Jenkinson    Jane       
Montgomery    Catherine       
SHAW    William       
Rotherham    9c   550

Just for Info. this looks to be Jane on 1841/1851 census with her husband John

HO107; P 1328; Book: 3; Civil Parish: Rawmarsh E D 19; F 59; P 8
John JENKINSON 25 Ag Lab.
Jane 20
William 6mths

1851 HO107; Piece: 2344; Folio: 400; Page: 19
Jane Jenkinson wife age 33 Belton Lincolnshire
husband John occ. Ag Lab. & children William, Hannah & Edward

possible marriage entry
Rotherham Dec 1839
John JINKINSON
Name on same page
Jane RICHARDSON

Interestingly there’s a Sarah SHAW on the same page (could this be William's sister)  ???

There's a death entry for a
John JENKINSON  Jun 1860 Rotherham

I wonder if John William Shaw born St Asaph 1847 was William & Ann's first child and
did they marry in Wales or England?

There's this entry

Jun 1839 Rotherham
William SHAW
Names on same page
Anne WILCOCKS
Ann LINDLEY

but difficult to say without confirmation from a  b/c  of one of their children if this might be their marriage
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Chrisvp on Tuesday 01 October 13 00:04 BST (UK)
Hi guys,
You certainly have been busy, I just got home from work and more info. Coming my way!
I believe I saw a reference to William Shaw having a sister named Sarah, if I can connect that information it is one step closer to finding out if John Shaw is indeed the father of William. Have to start cooking supper for the wife but will be back online shortly. I am sure I saw that information on familysearch and GENUKI: Wath Upon Dearne. You know I may be addicted to genealogy!
cheers,
Chrisvp
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Chrisvp on Tuesday 01 October 13 03:55 BST (UK)
Hello everyone,
 Here is a list of baptisms in Swinton starting in 1810.


29 07 1810   20 06 1810   Edmond   SHAW   Thomas   Mary   Swinton   Son       Thomas, son of Edward; Mary, daughter of Edmond Whitehead
23 09 1810   29 09 1810   Richard   SHAW   James   Ann   Swinton   Son       James, son of Richard, a Labourer; Ann, daughter of William Watson
28 07 1811   02 03 1811   George Littlewood   SHAW   Thomas   Mary   Swinton   Son   Carpenter   Thomas, son of Edward, a Carpenter; Mary, daughter of Edmond Whitehead
09 06 1812   09 05 1812   Dina   SHAW   William   Nelly   Swinton   Daughter       William, son of William; Nelly, daughter of John Senior
18 04 1813   27 03 1813   Maria   SHAW   James   Ann   Swinton   Daughter       James, son of Richard, a Labourer; Ann, daughter of William Watson
22 05 1814   28 04 1814   Charles   SHAW   William   Nelly   Swinton   Son       William, son of William; Nelly, daughter of John Sawer or Sawyer, a Collier
16 10 1814   18 05 1814   Eliza   SHAW   John   Christiana   Swinton   Daughter       John, son of John, a Labourer; Christiana, daughter of Jonathan Bartholomew
01 10 1815       Sarah   SHAW   John   Elizabeth   Swinton   Daughter   Tailor
18 12 1815       Martin   SHAW   John   Christiana   Swinton   Son   Cordwainer
09 06 1816       William   SHAW   James   Ann   Swinton   Son   Labourer
05 01 1817       Ann   SHAW   William   Helen   Swinton   Daughter   Labourer
06 12 1818       George   SHAW   James   Ann   Swinton   Son   Labourer
21 02 1819       Emma   SHAW   John   Christiana   Swinton   Daughter   Cordwainer
09 03 1819       Charles   SHAW   William   Helen   Swinton   Son   Labourer
20 02 1820   Charles   SHAW   George   Elizabeth   Swinton   Son   Joiner

27 08 1820   Harriet   SHAW   John   Mary   Swinton   Daughter   BlackSmith

22 04 1821   Joshua   SHAW   William   Martha   Swinton   Son   Joiner

06 05 1821   George   SHAW   William   Helen   Swinton   Son   Labourer

24 06 1821   Mark   SHAW   John   Christiana   Swinton   Son   Cordwainer

08 09 1822   Harriet   SHAW   James   Ann   Swinton   Daughter   Labourer

29 12 1822   Elizabeth   SHAW   John   Elizabeth   Swinton Common   Daughter   Tailor
29 12 1822   William   SHAW   John   Elizabeth   Swinton Common   Son   Tailor

06 04 1823   Harriet   SHAW   William   Helen   Swinton   Daughter   Labourer

20 05 1823   Hannah   SHAW   Thomas   Sarah   Swinton   Daughter   Labourer

11 04 1824   George   SHAW   William   Ann   Swinton   Son   Joiner

25 04 1824   Martha   SHAW   George   Hannah   Swinton   Daughter   Potter

19 09 1824   Benjamin   SHAW   John   Christiana   Swinton   Son   Cordwainer

02 01 1825   Seth   SHAW   Joshua   Elizabeth   Swinton   Son   Joiner

15 05 1825   Alfred   SHAW   William   Ann   Swinton   Son   Joiner

03 07 1825   Henry   SHAW   John   Elizabeth   Swinton   Son   Tailor

23 10 1825   Ann   SHAW   Thomas   Elizabeth   Swinton   Daughter   Potter

05 02 1826   Joseph   SHAW   George   Hannah   Swinton   Son   Potter

25 06 1826   Charlotte   SHAW   Thomas   Sarah   Swinton   Daughter   Labourer
25 06 1826   Catharine   SHAW   Thomas   Sarah   Swinton   Daughter   Labourer
25 06 1826   Mary   SHAW   Thomas   Sarah   Swinton   Daughter   Labourer

29 10 1826   Alfred   SHAW   James   Ann   Swinton   Son   Labourer
25 12 1826   John   SHAW   William   Ann   Swinton   Son   Joiner
25 12 1826   Ann   SHAW   Thomas   Mary   Swinton   Daughter   Carpenter
01 04 1827   Enoch   SHAW   William   Helen   Swinton   Son   Labourer
20 05 1827   Grace   SHAW   Joshua   Elizabeth   Swinton   Daughter   WheelWright
27 07 1828   Henry   SHAW   William   Ann   Swinton   Son   Carpenter
07 12 1828   Alfred   SHAW   George   Hannah   Swinton   Son   Potter
29 01 1829   Luke   SHAW   Thomas   Sarah   Swinton   Son   Potter
05 07 1829   Adelina   SHAW   William   Helen   Swinton   Daughter   Labourer
20 09 1829   Joshua   SHAW   Joshua   Elizabeth   Swinton   Son   Carpenter



























Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 01 October 13 08:14 BST (UK)
To be really sure that you are researching the right family and to establish the maiden name of Ann you really need the certificates.  Whilst we have found Williams second marriage and that would give his fathers name the birth certificate of one of his children is the best route to take then once you know the mothers maiden anme you can get the right marriage cert giving details of both William & Ann's father.

I can see a William born c1821 in Swinton in 1841 but the details do not tie in with a similar entry on your baptism list  - you really need a certificate or you could be following the wrong family

Rosie
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: Chrisvp on Tuesday 01 October 13 12:38 BST (UK)
Hi Rosie,
Yes I know that this could be the wrong line. I try to get as much information as possible before ordering a certificate. Unfortunately I have followed wrong lines before and ordered the wrong peoples birth records. But in this case it looks like the thing to do.
Regards,
Chris
Title: Re: John Shaw, Yorkshire
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 01 October 13 13:35 BST (UK)
I am looking at a possible marriage in London 1846 for a William Shaw with a father John whose occupation ties in with the one on your christenings list  ;)
8 July 1846 Pimlico
William occupation Coachman father John occ Tailor
Ann Harries father Edward Harries occ Farmer

Rosie