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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: wrjones on Sunday 29 September 13 12:02 BST (UK)
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Richard Sale is given in the 1851 Census in Cefn Mawr Denbighshire as born in Bilston? Staffordshire in c 1775 and his wife Elizabeth is given as born in Wrexham Denbighshire in c 1788.
HO107/2503/161/18.
In 1861 a possible son Francis Sale given as born in Cefn Mawr Denbighshire in 1826 is living with his wife Elizabeth,given as born in Cefn Mawr Denbighshire in c 1828 are living again in Cefn Mawr Denbighshire.
RG09/4281/56/5.
Despite my best efforts I'm unable to find a marriage for Richard and Elizabeth Sale or Francis and Elizabeth Sale.
Any help in finding any of the marriages will be greatly appreciated.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Did they have a child Margaret born 1827 and baptised in Wrexham in 1827? On Family Search there is one listed with parents Richard Sale and Elizabeth Williams https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X1RR-KZZ
Kay
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There is a Francis Seale marriage in 1847 registered September qtr Wrexham.
Northwalesbmd has it as St Marys, Ruabon and one of the possible spouses was Elizabeth Jones.
Mo
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Thanks Kay and Mo for your replies.
Well Kay remembering that the surname Sale was included in the Blackwell Index of Non Conformist Baptisms in Denbighshire,a CD I purchased from Clwyd FHS,I've just been looking at the baptism of Margaret Sale!
Well Mo I should have remembered to use Soundex when looking for entries on Ancestry!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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There is also a marriage of a Margaret Sale to Samuel Cartwright both of full age in 15 Aug 1846 at Ruabon with her home listed as Cefn Mawr and father listed as Richard Sale - Potter.
One of the witnesses was Francis Sale
Kay
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Jill Rose has these.
386 Ruabon: 17 Feb 1844 mar. by Banns of Thomas SALE (mason) ba. of Cefn Mawr s/o Richard (potter) & Frances WILLIAMS (x) (servant) sp. of Cefn Mawr d/o Edward (collier)
416 Ruabon: 11 Feb 1885 mar. by Banns of Richard SALE (forgeman) ba/25 of Cefn Mawr s/o Cecil SALE (forgeman) & Mary Ann JONES sp/20 of Cefn Mawr d/o William JONES (collier)
386 Ruabon: 11 Sep 1847 mar. by Banns of Francis SEALE (x) (puddler) ba. of Cefn Mawr s/o Richard (potter) & Elizabeth JONES (x) (in service) sp. of Cefn Mawr d/o William (collier)
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Thanks,the Cartwright family of the Samuel that Margaret Sale married may be the subject of another posting by me on the Shropshire Board in due course.
I am increasingly interested though in the family of the Elizabeth Jones who married Francis Sale giving me strong reasons yet again to bemoan the loss of the 1841 Census in the area.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Sorry - to help you with Samuel Cartwright I should have mentioned that his father is listed as John Cartwright Labourer and the other witness was Elizabeth Jones
Kay
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Perhaps witnesses at Francis and Elizabeth's marriage may give a clue. ;)
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Thanks for both of your replies once again.
Whilst this is very much a long term project,it is my belief that both the Cartwright and Sale families are connected to one of my Jones families.
The brother of Samuel Cartwright a Joseph Cartwright born in Ellesmere Shropshire in 1818,along with his wife Catherine were witnesses at the marriage of my Greatx2-Grandparents Moses Jones and Elizabeth Jones who were married at Ruabon Registry Office in 1849.
Indeed it is possible that Moses and the Elizabeth Jones who married Francis Sale were siblings.Both of their father's were a William Jones(Collier).
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I'm not sure whether you had it in your soundex search but there is the marriage of Richard Seal to Elizabeth Williams(as per Kay99' s baptism)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC5T-3X9
Elsewhere he is given as a potter which fits with other data.
Regards
Roger
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Thanks Roger,it didn't occur to me to leave the surname of Richard Sale unticked for exact on Family Search!Though I have a Williams family connected to my Jones family the 1851 Census suggests that the Elizabeth Williams who married Richard Sale was born in Wrexham which is where of course the marriage probably took place.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Known siblings I have of Moses Jones who was the son of a William Jones and a Sarah Jones who married at Ruabon in 1805 are;
John born c 1805.
Hannah born c 1807.
Simon born c 1811.
Thomas born c 1816.
It does appear that there were at least two more perhaps,Sarah and Elizabeth.though these two will not appear in lets say the Ruabon Parish registers,I only found Moses and Thomas courtesy of the Seion Welsh Chapel Cefn Mawr whose register is only available for viewing at the Cefn Mawr Research Centre of Clwyd FHS where I will be Tuesday morning!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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There is a Richard Sale born 1790 on freereg in Bilston, I am still researching him as he is a 4th (I think)great grandfather of my husband. It seems there was a pottery trade in Bilston. His parents are possibly Richard and Jane (Carden).
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Thanks,of course I have no way of knowing where the Sale family I spoke of originate?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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My apologies,after reading through the thread again I mentioned a Richard Sale born in Bilston in c 1790 in my first post.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Richards marriage to Elizabeth Williams (named as Richard Seal a potter) was witnessed by Matilda Seal and Edward Lewis (a potter) who married a month later. I am trying to find Matilda Seal now as she could be the missing link!