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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: JohnGMilburn on Thursday 26 September 13 09:48 BST (UK)
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Hi
Can anyone help, I'm trying to find information on a Pte George Todd 1609838, he serve on merchant ships during WW2 he died 16 Dec 1942.
I have his service records, but it dosn't give the ship he was on.
Also which medals would he be in titled to?
Thanks
John
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hi john
commonwealth war graves detail has him aboard ss empire gilbert [sunderland ] as a fireman and trimmer , panel 41 tower hill memorial .
can,t help with medals but sure someone else will be on soon to help with those .
regards
trevor
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Trevor,
I don't think this is the man in question. DEMS were always recorded on crew agreements as Deck Hands. Apart From an age difference.
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2489012/TODD,%20GEORGE
Just off to work. Will get back on this one.
rgds SW
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Trevor, I think you've got the wrong man there? CWCC records that George Todd, Royal Artillery, 7/4 Maritime Regiment, is commemorated on the Plymouth Memorial.
Medal information here:
http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/remembrance/medals/medal-faqs#unclaimedmedal
Imber
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hi
yes my mistake I was looking at merchant navy not army sorry about that :-[ :-[ .
regards
trevor
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Hi
I'm trying to find information on a Pte George Todd 1609838,
I have his service records, but it dosn't give the ship he was on.
Hello John,
Your man was what is known as a "DEMS" gunner. DEMS, "Defensively Equipped Merchant Ship". They are notoriously difficult to research. I note that you have his service record and that it doesn't mention any of the names of the ships he served on. The only other way to track a gunner on a Merchant Navy ship, is to know at least one ship, preferably at the end of his service, and then, by the aid of crew agreements which all personnel including military had to sign, we can work back through those as the previous ship is usually shown.
See, http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Defensively_Equipped_Merchant_Ships_%28D.E.M.S%29
As far as I can tell, He was not on-board any of the British vessels that were sunk on 16/12/1942. Namely, EAST WALES and OBSERVER. "DEMS", also served on Allied merchant ships, mainly Dutch or Norwegian, which makes the task all the more difficult.
Personal from the Army, Royal Air Force, and Royal Navy, were automatically given War grave status whatever the cause of their demise, unlike their Merchant Navy comrades who had to prove that the cause of death was as a direct result of enemy action.
Regarding the ships George Todd sailed on. I think you are looking for the proverbial "Needle in a Haystack"
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Thanks for your help
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Further to my PM see attached
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Thank you very much for you help, if I can help with any information for the Derwentside area of Durham please let me know.
Cheers
John
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Hi there, my Dad was Robert Hall Royal Navy JX265524. He was a DEMs Gunner. He received 39/45 Medal, Atlantic Star,Africa Star,Italy Star, F&C. I think he might be entitled to the Arctic Medal as I believe he was on the Arctic Convoys. We certainly have some embroidered things he brought back from Rekyavik Norway and he spoke about Murmansk. Some of the ships he was on were, SS Nyholm, SS Sampa, SSThelma, SS Catford, SS Lochside 11, SS Dalton Hall. I don’t know if these ships were used on the Arctic convoys. Can any of you knowledgeable folk help me with this? Dad died quite a while ago now, but I would love to claim the Arctic medal on his behalf if I can. Many thanks.
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Hello and welcome to rootschat!
According to the book "Convoys to Russia" none of the vessels mentioned took part in any Arctic convoy. They may have sailed independently. That said most ships sailing independently were Russian flagged.
Take a look at
http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/russian/index.html?home.htm~rumain
and
https://www.warsailors.com/convoys/arctic.html
What was the name of the last ship your father sailed on including dates?
SW