RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: paula m on Thursday 23 August 12 18:30 BST (UK)
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Hi Carmel,
Was wondering if you would be able to help me with some information?
My GG grandparents lived in the Ballarat area
I know they lost a baby girl, i believe she was buried at a cemetery near Daisyhill??
She was born at Amherst, and her name was Alice Elizabeth McIntosh she died aged 6wks 1856
My gg grandfather Alexander died in Australia in 1871, the rest of the family had returned to Scotland
by then so he would have been alone I cant seem to find anything about his death
but cant help wondering if he would have been buried near his daughter
Any information you can help me with would be appreciated
Thankyou
Paula
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Hi Paula,
I am sorry I have just seen your post on the end of an old thread and have just split it off.
Hope someone might have some ideas for you to try.
Regards
Sarah :)
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Hi
Could you let us know Alexander's date of birth, plus his parents names also wife's names.
Cass
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Is his death one of these?
MCINTOSH Alexander
Father Unknown
Mother:-
Age 44
Birth Place SCOT
Year 1871
Reg 375
MCINTOSH Alexander
Father John
Mother Elizabeth STEWART
Age 65
Birth Place INVE
Year 1871
Reg 637
The details on the death certificate will tell you where he is buried.
An uncertified image can be downloaded to your computer immediately upon payment of about Aus. $20.00. You will need the registration number which is given above on the index entry.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
This link shows what you may see on all Victorian certificates. How complete and accurate the information is, depends on the knowledge of the informant.
http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
Sue
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Two Alexander McINTOSH deaths in Victoria in 1871.
Death
McINTOSH Alexander
Parents unknown
1871 44 years Born Scotland Reg#375
McINTOSH Alexander
Father John Mother Elizabeth STEWART
1871 65 years Born Inverness Reg#637
and this also but for which Alexander? Inquests were held as a matter of routine for those who died in public institutions. I only mention this as there was a gaol and asylum at Beechworth. Of course inquests were held into deaths for other reasons as well. Beechworth was also a gold mining area. One of my ancestors was a government surveyor and mining registrar in the area.
Inquest Index
McINTOSH Alexander
Beechworth 1871 Ref#37
Cause Pneumonia
His place of burial would be detailed on his death certificate which you can purchase [$AUD20] online and immediately download.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Info on Victorian certificates
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
Surviving headstones
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausvsac/Amherst.htm
Cass asked his wife's name.
Birth
McINTOSH Alice Elizabeth
Father Alexander Mother Sarah NICHOLSON
Amherst 1856 Reg#5656
Death
McINTOSH Alice Elizabeth
Father Alexander Mother Sarah
1856 6 Weeks Born Amherst Reg#2856
Gold was first discovered in 1848 at Daisy Hill near the area which is now Amherst Cemetery. You can google for info. Daisy Hill is not near Ballarat.
http://www.dpcd.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/44620/Amherst.pdf (http://www.dpcd.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/44620/Amherst.pdf)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amherst,_Victoria
Cheers
Cando
Edit...Oops apologies Sue....I will leave the deaths as I have added a bit more.
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This is the death for the child.
As I stated above, the death certificate will tell you where she was buried
MCINTOSH Alice Elizabeth
Father Alexander
Mother Sarah
Age 6W
Birth Place AMH
Year 1856
Reg 2856
Sue
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Death
McINTOSH Alexander
Father John Mother Elizabeth STEWART
1871 65 years Born Inverness Reg#637
There is a one page 'file' on PROV Wills and Admons, for Alexander who died 29 Dec 1871. He was described as late of Breakish, Isle of Skye, Inverness, a Mariner. Administration to a John McINTOSH of Maffra, Gippsland in Jul 1874 but the administration 'has never been issued'.
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54
Cando
Edit Another resource states he died 29 Dec 1870, Maffra so a death would be be registered 1871.
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Perhaps this is the source of your information however his year of birth is stated as 1822 so his age at death is certainly inaccurate.
Extracts from "The Life & Adventures of James McIntosh the Legless Cyclist" ( Son of Alexander McIntosh )
"I was born a sailor, for my father was a sailor, and so was my mother. My Fathers name was Alexander McIntosh, he was a native of Dundee and was born in Butterburn. He went to sea when a boy and worked his way from the forecastle to the cabin by his own abilities and perseverance"
"He was a captain of several good ships, and my mother used to sail along with him. I had a brother and sister older than myself born at sea"
"Before my birth my father commanded the ship Mermaid of London, Gold had been discovered in Australia, and all the world was smitten with the "gold fever" and thousands were rushing to the diggings from all quarters. Fleets of vessels, loaded with merchandise and emigrants sailed for Melbourne and as soon as they anchored in the bay they were deserted by their crews, and the sailors ran off to the diggings to try their luck, and left their vessels to rot in the harbour. My father being deserted by his crew, resolved to try his fortune at the gold diggings too, so he went up the country with his wife and family, and there I first saw the light of this world ( Amehurst, County of Talbot, Victoria, Australia ). For a long time my father was very successful. He began by making tents for the diggers, and that turned out a very lucrative business, and having saved some money he bought a claim, and worked it with fair success for a considerable time. Latterly, however, "luck" deserted him, and after struggling against bad fortune, and loosing any little money he had realised, he abandoned the diggings and returned to Melbourne. Sir George Hothan was the was then Governor of Melbourne and he owned a fine yacht, n board of which my father obtained a situation as Chief Officer, at a salary of about 15 pounds a month. We were very well off in the colonies but my mother grew home sick, and longed to see her native country again. I had a sister who died out there and she was buried at a place called Daisy Hill. It was in the year 1867 that my mother with her children embarked for home , leaving my father behind."
"My father died and left me mother a widow"
The author's birth
McINTOSH James Haddow
Father Alexander Mother Sarah NICHOLSON
Amherst 1857 Reg#7133
There are some very poorly researched trees online and none of them mention Alexander's parents names nor are there any certificates attached.
Cando
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You may find this site of interest with information about Talbot's history as well as current information.
http://www.talbottourism.org/home/history.htm
There is also a couple of photos of the graveyard here:
http://www.australiancemeteries.com/vic/centgoldfields/daisyhill.htm
Interesting that Alexander made his living by supplying tents to the miners. It was probably more profitable in many cases to provide services than to dig for gold. My 4g grandfather made a good living by opening a pub in the goldfields.
Judith
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One of my ggrandparents also found it far more lucrative to supply the miners than mine for gold. However he only stayed on the goldfields for a couple of years and then established business in Melbourne.
Other resource mentioned above
McINTOSH Alexander
Death 29 Dec 1870
At Maffra, late Isle of Skye
Occupation Mariner
Non-issued probates and administrations, Supreme Court of Victoria probate jurisdiction: units 1-70 (1851-1952)
Public Record Office Victoria - VPRS 7933/P1 Unit 17 File 902.
Comment - Grant type- Administration
Neither of the ages of the two deaths registered in 1871 for Alexander McINTOSH are a match. You need to find his marriage on ScotslandsPeople to Sarah NICHOLSON.
There is Daisy Hill between Talbot and Maryborough this is another place altogether. Many people confuse the two.
Cando
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Reviewing all the info I doubt that that the older man is your Alexander. It would appear his brother or relative was at Maffra and surely the age would not be so inaccurate.
I think it is possibly the death at Beechworth.
Not much joy from the Beechworth Cemetery Trust -
1867 - March, 1875 Burials in present cemetery. Names and dates only. No
locations.
Really can't help you much more as you need a certificate or two.
Alice's birth certificate would give you Alexander's age and place of birth.
Cando
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familysearch - transcribed parish record.
McINTOSH Andrew
NICHOLSON Sarah Haddow
26 Mar 1852
Dundee Angus Scotland
Cando
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Sir George Hothan was the was then Governor of Melbourne
James Haddow McINTOSH
It was Sir Charles HOTHAM who was Governor of Victoria and he died in 1855 with no issue.
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/hotham-sir-charles-3803 (http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/hotham-sir-charles-3803)
http://www.burkeandwills.net.au/Royal_Society/Government/Victorian_Governors.htm
I think the family history has been embellished a tad.
Cando
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A quick search but can't find the MERMAID OF LONDON arriving in Australia. It would appear she was a whaling vessel. Mention here of being seen in May 1843 by another whaling vessel as being 'out 26 months'.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0w8u/
Cando
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A quick search but can't find the MERMAID OF LONDON arriving in Australia. It would appear she was a whaling vessel. Mention here of being seen in May 1843 by another whaling vessel as being 'out 26 months'.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0w8u/
Cando
Maybe he was a whalor and when the ship came into port all the Whalers decided that Gold was a better way to get rich than blubber? :-\
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Ted the ship would have been listed in shipping arrivals and departures and the mention was 9 years before Alexander and Sarah were married.
From the extract it appeared he had his wife and family on board with him.
Family stories are often inaccurate.
Something not quite right.
Would love to see the death cert for the Alexander McINTOSH who died at Beechworth - ie according to the Inquest Index not the death index as only shows place of birth.
Cando
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Another possibility..because the McINTOSH family were in Scotland the ship may have been referred to as the MERMAID - of London :-\
There is a clipper MERMAID arriving Melbourne from Liverpool frequently during the 1850's however mention is made consistently under the command of Commander Edward DEVEY
Hopefully the OP has more information.
Cando
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Well James once again had the family story incorrect. Sarah returned to Scotland before 1867 ::).
1861 Census Parish Perth Burgh 39/3/2
Living at 23 Commercial Street, Perth Burgh Perthshire
McINTOSH Sarah Head 30 years Seamans Wife Chief Mate Born Dundee Forfarshire
McINTOSH Agnes Dau 8 years Scholar Born Australia
McINTOSH Charles J Son 6 years Scholar Born Australia
McINTOSH James H Son 4 years Born Australia
McINTOSH Alexander A Son 4 months Born Kinnoull, Perthshire
ARCHIBALD Georgine Boarder 24 years Cloth Presser Born Perthshire
1871 Scottish Census Parish Dundee 2/15/7
Living 89 Nethergate Street, Dundee
McINTOSH Sarah Head 41 years Annuitant Born Dundee Forfarshire
McINTOSH Agnes Dau 18 years Tailoress Born Richmond, Australia
McINTOSH Charles F [error] Son 16 years Apprentice Engineer Born Richmond, Australia
McINTOSH James H Son 13 years Message Boy Born Amherst, Australia
1881 Scottish Census Monifeith 5/3/13
Living at 55 Cowans Cottages, Monifeith Angus
McINTOSH Sarah H Head 52 years Born Dundee Forfarshire
McINTOSH Charles Son 26 years Marine Engineer Born Victoria
McINTOSH James H Son 24 years Seaman M S Born Victoria
GRAY Agnes McIntosh Dau 28 years Wife of a seaman Born Victoria
GRAY Alexander McIntosh Grandson 9 years Scholar [Mother Agnes Mcintosh GRAY] Born Dundee, Forfarshire
GRAY Sarah Mina Granddaughter 7 years Scholar [Mother Agnes Mcintosh GRAY] Born Dundee Forfarshire
GRAY Roderick Grandson 5 years Scholar [Mother Agnes Mcintosh GRAY] Born Dundee Forfarshire
GRAY Christina Granddaughter 1 years Scholar [Mother Agnes Mcintosh GRAY] Born Dundee Forfarshire
Now all you need is Alexander's 1871 death cert. I notice that Sarah was 41years in the 1871 census and Alexander who died in 1871 aged 44 years is surely her husband. Unfortunately IF he did die in a public institution there is usually little information on the death certificate.
The Scottish Census was taken on 2/3 April 1871 and with Sarah describing herself as an annuitant, I now wonder when in 1871 did Alexander die?
There is an inquest file at the Public Records of Victoria however they do not offer a copy service.
I now wonder why the story was so incorrect.
James H's sister and brother were not born at sea but in Richmond, Victoria, Australia.
Was Sarah hiding something about their life, and Alexander's death, in Australia.
Cheers
Cando
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My gg grandfather Alexander died in Australia in 1871, the rest of the family had returned to Scotland
Can I ask why you believe Alexander died in 1871? ie. What is the source of this information?
The Alexanders discussed so far:
1. Alexander with the will d.1871: He died in Breakish, Isle of Skye and had previously lived in Maffra - not the other way around. His was married twice - Catherine Robertson 1844 and Christina Matheson 1855 both in Strath, Skye. At least 2 of his sons remained in Victoria when he returned to Skye: John (1848-1877) and Thomas Ord (1851-1922). His daughter Mary/Marian returned to Skye with him as did his second wife Christina. Alexander's parents were Archibald McIntosh and Ann McEachan. Archibald was also in Maffra and died there in 1869 as were a couple of his sisters.
2. Alexander d.1871 son of John McIntosh and Elizabeth Stewart lived at Ascot, Victoria and was married to Jean McIntosh, daughter of John McIntosh and Catherine McDonald. They were both from Urquhart, Invernessshire and married there in 1828. Both died in 1871 - Alexander in March and Jean a month later and are buried together in Coghills Creek Cemetery.
3. The Alexander who died with parents unknown in 1871 died at Beechworth Gaol - the inquest gives his cause of death as pneumonia and pericarditis and notes that he appeared to have been ill for some time when he was admitted under warrant on 5th January. The only familial information given is that he was born in Scotland, aged 44 years and had no friends in the colony. Date of death 10th January - the inquest was held the same day. No burial information is given but Beechworth cemetery would be the best bet unless there was a burial ground attached to the gaol?
VPRS 515 - Prisoners' Personal Descriptions - may have more information.
Jay
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I am new to this site but after reading all of the posts, I think I have found a gold mine. My GGGrandparent's names were Alexander McINTOSH and Sarah NICHOLSON McINTOSH. James "Toshie" McINTOSH was my GGrandmother's brother. I read the posts and believe I have gotten some good information off of them. I know that Sarah went back to Scotland after being homesick and that Alexander had passed away in Austrailia. As for the baby that passed away, she could have been one of more because I know that my GGrandparents, Agnes and Alexander Gray, lost a child in the early 1890s and when my Grandmother was born she was given her name. I'm sorry that I don't know what Alexander's parents names were. I would tend to believe that they are listed here by one of the posters. My Grandmother's name was Agnes McINTOSH GRAY and was born in Dundee. Thank you for your time. :)
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I have just updated your email Jay ;)
Regards
Sarah
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Hi, Alexander and Sarah were my gg grandparents, having contacted Lloyds Captains register in London with Alexanders registration they confirmed Alexander McIntosh was lost at sea in 1871...a ship he was on named the TASSO listed as a foreign ship (travelling to Mauritaus possibly) was the last entry on his seamans record, it reads Jan 25th 1870 he joined the ship, foundered 6th Feb -feb12/24?? not sure what that means .. Date may be wrong ( The Alexander Mcintosh`s you have as died elsewhere are the wrong men...the one from Sky pops up in searches all the time....no relation).his possessions and pay were collected by my grandmother Sarah who was back home in Scotland with the children Charles...my g grandfather, agnes and James...no other surviving children, Alexander stayed in Australia....His mariners records show all his travels around the world and positions he held aboard these vessels...which vary greatly from captain to second mate....this is possibly why his age varies so much, I think it was to appear younger for work purposes, he was registered as a Master Seaman by the age of 20 and his registration states he was born In Dundee 1814?? I have no parents names for Alexander or record of birth.
Alexander married Sarah Haddow Nicholson on 26th March 1852 at Dundee....they travelled aboard The Mermaid of London (a clipper) Alexander was listed as a passenger and not crew they arrived I think June or July 1852....All the children were born in Australia,,,Sarah travelled back and forth regularly as records show.
Lots of records of Sarah very little of Alexander...no birth record, parents names,his mother possibly Elizabeth.?
Sarah died 12th January 1903 a stones throw from Dundee
Any further help would be greatly appreciated guys, thankyou ;)
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Paul M you may like to read this link...scroll down to the Very important bit
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=368728.0
Have you read all the posts on the thread?
Have your seen the parish record? My ancestors who married in Scotland pre civil registration had the names of both the grooms' and brides' fathers on their marriage records.
McINTOSH Andrew
NICHOLSON Sarah Haddow
26 Mar 1852
Dundee Angus Scotland[/size]
Cando
You are incorrect with the name of the ship they travelled to Victoria. It was the barque MERMAID not the MERMAID OF LONDON
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4786740
The Argus 16 Aug 1852
Vessels in Hobson's Bay
BARQUES....Mermaid
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=23
MACINTOSH Alexander 25 years Jul 1852 MERMAID Port B 004/001
MACINTOSH Sarah 22 years Jul 1852 MERMAID Port B 004/001
The image of the ship's manifest shows they embarked from London Apr 1852 and were contracted to land at Port Phillip. Their nationality Scotch and his occupation, sailor. Their nationality has been mistranscribed to the online index on a subscription only website, as Irish.
Have you purchased any of the children's Victorian birth certificates? It would show his age at that time and his place of birth.
You wrote that Alexander died in 1871 in Australia so that is why we searched here.
The TASSO in Australian waters in Oct 1871
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article103920251
It now appears that Alexander joined the ship's crew at Sunderland, England on 25 Jan 1870.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/bmdatseaorabroad.htm
foundered... drowned?
McINTOSH A 52 years
Birth year 1818
Death date 8 Feb 1870
Reported date 1870
Vessel name TASSO
Departure port Sunderland
County At Sea
Series BT 153 Box 0010 Pge#34
Cando
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Firstly I would like to thank everyone for the time and effort and taking the time to post replies ...as I said in my last post greatly appreciated
I have read all the posts but its a lot of information to take in in one go
Cando I have seen the parish records for the marriage but was too faint to read parents names
I hope some of the information I have posted also helps someone else
Paula
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Any further help would be greatly appreciated guys, thankyou
Paula
Paula your request was in Aug 2012 and in 2013 it was picked up with lots of information posted again in 2014 and that is why I asked had you read all the information on the thread. Some of your information doesn't appear to be accurate eg the name of the ship on which Alexander and Sarah arrived in Victoria.
We always appreciate a response to any questions put to you.
Forum members always appreciate some feedback to the research that has been posted.
How do you know Alexander stayed in Australia after Sarah returned to Scotland? He was in England when he signed on as crew on the TASSO in 1870.
Cheers
Cando
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My original post in 2012 received little response and I had given up to be truthful, it was only the other day I returned to the web site having taken up the search again to find over 20 posts, that is why I had never answered questions
I knew Alexander remained in Australia because of letters he had written to Sarah when she returned to Scotland...he continued to work at sea coming back home from time to time as far as I can tell but i could be wrong
Its likely Alexander was home in Scotland before embarking on TASSO in England
Paula
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Hi Paula. Getting back to the start, have you worked out the Daisy Hill Cemetery?! It's basically the 'old' Amherst Cemetery, the one with only one remaining headstone.
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Hi Bitzar
Thanks for the reply and no I hadn't realised that about the cemetery
Paula
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Hi Paula. It can be confusing because there is Daisy Hill between Talbot and Maryborough (still in existence and referred to in an earlier post by Cando I think), but the Daisy Hill you and I am referring to is the early name of Amherst. My gr gr gr grandparents arrived in 1854 ish! They also have children buried SOMEWHERE.... probably old Daisy Hill. This link shows all that remains of the cemetery and I believe there are no records. Supposedly there were more headstones that were destroyed in the Ash Wednesday bushfires which also destroyed what was left of the town. If you haven't done any research on Amherst, it is so interesting. Amazing layout of streets and up to 40,000 residents in late 1850's.
http://www.australiancemeteries.com/vic/centgoldfields/daisyhill.htm
Now I've bored you enough. You don't have to reply or say thanks. I'm just sharing... Love my goldfields history.
Happy New Year.
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Hi Bitzar, I do appreciate the info these wee snippits can be so helpful.
Been so busy lately its been a while since I have done any digging around.
Your message has stirred my interest again ...time I picked up where I left off !!
Goldfields maybe another avenue as I know my GG grandparents mined in the area for a few years
Happy New Year to you too
Paula
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Just my two bob's worth again ;D
There is Daisy Hill between Talbot and Maryborough this is another place altogether. Many people confuse the two.
Cando
In the gold-rush years, three separate localities in the area were known as Daisy Hill and it can be very confusing for researchers trying to establish which of the three is the one they are seeking. There was Daisy Hill Hut where Chapman found gold in 1840, then a Daisy Hill was established in Pollock's Lane with a Police Camp. The next Daisy Hill later became Amherst, named for Lord Amherst, the then Governor of India. Today's Daisy Hill is a different locality again.
Amherst cemetery was 'opened' in 1859.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gqp/
Supposedly there were more headstones that were destroyed in the Ash Wednesday bushfires which also destroyed what was left of the town.
Bitzar
Amherst was not effected by the Ash Wednesday Fires.
http://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/fm_files/attachments/kids_and_schools/fact-sheets/fs_ash-wednesday.pdf (http://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/fm_files/attachments/kids_and_schools/fact-sheets/fs_ash-wednesday.pdf)
The Amherst School was a brick building erected in 1874. It closed in 1946 and was burnt out in the devastating bushfires of 1985, leaving the brick walls standing. It was rebuilt about 1987 and is now an attractive private residence. Opposite the school is the site of the old Daisy Hill Cemetery.
Survey Map of the township of Amherst 1855 with 'grave yard' marked
http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/93118
http://www.visitmaryborough.com.au/arts-culture-heritage/talbot-arts-historical-museum
Talbot Arts & Historical Museum - holds many local records.
Cando
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Paula
There you go! 1985 not 1983 for the bushfires. Thank you for the correction Cando.
Over and out for now.
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Paula I think the 1855 survey map for Amherst with the grave yard marked, will be an informative addition to your family history.
Cando