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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: WelwynGC1 on Thursday 19 September 13 06:38 BST (UK)
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Waited for ten minutes or so for this to start whilst they gave us a history of MF in the sixties etc., but thought it was really interesting once it got going.
Although only focusing on her Mother and grandparents, l did not nod off as l have done with one or two this series, the style has definitely changed as many have written before but l am hoping they have saved the best until last.
Hope next week is on next week as l recall that last series they held over the last episode to a future date.
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YEs there was only about a minute of genealogy in it, the the now customary unfurling of a written pedibree and discussion of her ancestor's ennoblement.
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I haven't seen last night's episode yet - but next week episode 10 IS in the "telly pages" so should be on!
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Yes there was n't much genealogy in it was there, like already said the customary unrolling of the chart. There were a few things I had n't heard before in jewish ancestry. About males having the name Israel added and women having sarah/h added (can't remember whether it had an h or not) when the germans decided they were cracking down on jews. The system starting to systematically exclusing them from professions and the letters exchanged.
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I only watched the first half, about her mother. So no genealogy at all! Mildly interesting, but if I hadnt been doing the ironing I reckon I would have dropped off.
Was hoping for something better in the second half, but husband arrived home, so I turned it off and chatted to him instead (ahhhhh). Was planning to watch second half some other time, but if it was 'more of the same' I wont bother.
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An amazing story!
The potted history of MF's early life must have been useful for those watching who were young enough not to know who she was or just how famous she had been :D
I think what this series has shown is that you may think you know very little about your parents or grandparents but there is in fact a wealth of information out there, if you have the time and the resources to look for it.
Parents and grandparents are generally the people we have known and loved but often know very little about.
As Marianne said at the end of the programme "Your family is the ground you stand on" and she felt that for her the ground had been put back.
To my mind what is the point of chasing backwards umpteen generations if you know nothing of where you began....it just becomes names on paper.
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Basically it was a documentary about Marrianne Faithfull and her Mother, although very interesting, this is not genealogy.
Margp
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For me this episode was a real history lesson ,! What EVIL &^%$$ that man and his cronies were !
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Not strictly genealogy but an excellent history lesson that I found it both fascinating and harrowing. What that family had to endure is unimaginable and it's easy to understand how those terrible experiences were passed down the generations.
I recently read a book of Ken Follett's - Winter of the World. I can almost believe he got part of his plot from MF's family's experiences.
Maggie
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I found this very boring. Most of the first half was nothing new to someone who is/was into 60s pop music, and is easily found by googling. Yes, what her mother and maternal grandparents went through was awful, but Stephen Fry's ancestors went through very similar situations, and worse, as shown in a previous WDYTYA. In that case, though, we were shown where his ancestors lived, he talked to people who'd been in a similar situation, people who'd known his family - which makes a person's history and ancestors come alive. I'm afraid this programme was just paperwork, and doesn't make for very absorbing tv - not for me, anyway. As said elsewhere, this was WWII history, NOT genealogy.
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Had it been titled "A Wartime History of a pop star's parents" it would have been good, but as a 'WDYTYA?" programme, I found it a bit out of place.
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I thought it a very powerful example of the sacrifice made during those horrible war time periods. Would all of us have been able to put our families at risk by doing resistance work, knowing what would happen to our families if we were caught?
Some of our ancestors may have been involved in the war, some of our ancestors may have been/are jewish, so for me it was appropriate as part of genealogy. My Father, still alive, was RAF ground technical crew posted Uk and abroad, so very protected from many aspects of the war, but his generation were very brave and a programme like this reminds us of their bravery and sacrifice. My opinion anyway.
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It seems I must have been watching a different program to many who posted on this thread!
Or it perhaps what they understand as genealogy or family history is not what I understand as family history.
To me this was an excellent program that vividly showed the effect of historic influences on later generations.
It portrayed exactly the title of the program "Who Do You Think You Are", and gave the viewers an insight into why the subjects turned out as they did.
Cheers
Guy
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I got fed up with her finishing the researchers' sentences and I got the impression that she already knew most of what she was being told.
I really don't care for this new 'here's one I prepared earlier' approach to the subject's genealogy by - as weste said - 'the customary unrolling of the chart'. WDYTYA has turned into potted social history lessons which is fine in itself but, as others have said, not genealogy.
Oh, and please can we have Mark Strong's beautiful voice back? (Nothing personal against Cherie Lunghi!)
Jill
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For me this episode was a real history lesson ,! What EVIL &^%$$ that man and his cronies were !
Slightly off topic ( as far as WDYTYA goes ), this shows exactly what they were like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(2001_film)
Regards, Frank.
Ps, I enjoyed last nights episode, but to be honest I enjoy them all.
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Drat I missed it! I was stuck at Heathrow. Hoping to catch up with the Monday night repeat. (Think it's on a Monday)
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Drat I missed it! I was stuck at Heathrow. Hoping to catch up with the Monday night repeat. (Think it's on a Monday)
Monday night BBC1 five past eleven.
Frank.
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It does seem that we are difficult to please ;)
I thought it was very interesting. If you weren't around in the 1960s, you wouldn't know much about her perhaps and she was, in today's terms, an icon at that time. There were probably many convent girls aspiring to be like her!
As has been said, it is 'Who do you think you are?' and based on her experiences with her mother and her own difficulties with drugs etc, it may have helped her discover who she was by telling a very sad, human (and inhuman) story.
Family history research provides us with lots of ancestors but these are often just names on a tree. I have really liked the way this series has shown one or two people's lives in greater depth where the subject can then appreciate heroism, flaws and struggles in their ancestors.
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This one wasn't for me I'm afraid. I only stuck with it for a way as I was bored rigid!
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I was distracted all the way through by the fact that she spent years drinking, on drugs - heroin addict, as a down and out in Soho etc. and yet her face was so clear & unlined - compared with mine which looks like an unmade bed - AND she's older than me! Please tell me she's 'had work done'. ;)
I'm afraid I didn't find this a very engaging episode. As bearsome already said, the one with Stephen Fry along similar lines was harrowing.
I would have liked to hear more about the resistance work mentioned.
But this series is certainly different.
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Obviously WW2 family histories can be harrowing and the bravery of people in terrible circumstances is interesting and moving. Marianne's mother and grandmother suffered :(
But sadly, as much as I wanted to, I didn't find this episode very engaging either. I thought there was little content spun out over an hour.
Watching repeats on Yesterday channel, makes me yearn for the old format.
Looby :)
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I haven't watched many episodes in the current series but if the MF episode was a measure of the other shows I think I'd rather go and watch some paint dry. :-X
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I enjoyed it, she wasn't emotional about such difficult facts, very pragmatic about the difficult times her grandmother and mother lived through in Austria.
I have never thought the programme of these later series was anything other than"family history" which could span many or few generations, depending on what records/documents survive.
The beauty of this series is that it has shown that there is more to family history than seeing how many generations one can get back to, it's finding the stories that make our relatives come alive and that they become more than just a name in a parish register.
And don't forget the programme has to appeal to the World and his wife!
Anne
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I'm afraid I didn't like this one either, for the reaons many have already said. The fact that she was presented with a ready-made tree, that she was simply handed endless documents and letters without much explanation of how and where they were actually found and that it was more a documentary about MF and her mother. I found myself glazing over a few times and losing interest which I don't usually do!
Like Looby said here, I prefer the old format - give us some genealogy! I don't mean going back to William the Conqueror but just a few more ancestors to get a broader view of the subject's ancestry. Are you really going to find out who you are by researching just one or two of your ancestors?
For me this series began really well, interesting and enjoyable, but the last two episodes have been disappointing. If a programme tries to appeal to the 'world and his wife' it's in danger of appealing to nobody in the end. And what a mixed bag of contrasting comments here ~ brings to mind that saying "you can please some of the people some of the time ...etc". Just my thoughts ;D
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I am afraid I too "nodded off" during this episode (and others too) and whilst appreciating the content I haven`t found many of the subjects on this series as watchable as the old WDYTYA format.
Mo
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I quite agree about it's not really going back into family history any great way, or discovering really new ground, and i do find it more interesting when there's not quite so much about the subject herself but having said that, and being of the same generation of the subject, who I'd really not had much memory of other than "As Tears go by", and a vague feeling that she'd been one of the silly girls who kept getting caught up in Drugs busts, etc, until she'd become famous for being famous ... I did feel a little bit more kindly towards her.
There was little new. I knew of the Sara / Israel convention, but really they did seem to come out of the War better than very many others who were part or wholly Jewish in Berlin or Vienna, didn't they? I know of others who did not.
It really does seem as though they're aiming for a different structure this time - new voice over, and more the immediate family. Would be very handly to be the subject if you were planning a new Autobiography.....
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I have posted earlier on this thread, but I just wanted to add something. I had no great problem with what was covered in this programme, but more how it was done. Yes, to be honest, I find it generally more interesting when the programme goes further back into history, but my interest in this particular episode waned because of the approach. If I have to look at sheets of paper, then I'd rather read a book, and look at photos of documents close to, or look at them on the computer screen. In this programme, each document was flashed before our eyes, then MF read out bits of it. No matter who the subject had been in this episode, this approach wouldn't be particularly engaging. Watching and listening to someone else reading a number of sheets of paper for information, just isn't interesting tv, and Marianne Faithful, lovely lady though she seems, doesn't have the most expressive of voices. The material and subjects (ie MF's mother and grandmother) were both thoroughly worthwhile, but so much more could have been done about the presentation to make it engaging for more of us.
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I enjoyed the programme, particularly the history aspect. I had no idea that the Russians had liberated Austria and then raped all the women. I had to laugh when she said something about being 50 and finding herself (or words to that effect). I guess she meant that she was 50 when that happened rather than she was 50 now. Being born in 1946, she is now 67.
Roopat - I don't know if she's had work done, but being fuller in the face ;D means the lines don't show up so much. I thought she looked her age.
Bizarrely, my son and daughter in law have just been clearing out her sister's house (she died suddenly aged 51) and they've found loads of paperwork in German and a postcard, supposedly sent by Hitler in 1934. They have no idea why her sister would have had all that. As far as they know there are no German ancestors and her sister couldn't speak or read German.
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I enjoyed the programme, particularly the history aspect. I had no idea that the Russians had liberated Austria and then raped all the women. I had to laugh when she said something about being 50 and finding herself (or words to that effect). I guess she meant that she was 50 when that happened rather than she was 50 now. Being born in 1946, she is now 67.
Could this have been a result of the liberation?
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Bizarrely, my son and daughter in law have just been clearing out her sister's house (she died suddenly aged 51) and they've found loads of paperwork in German and a postcard, supposedly sent by Hitler in 1934. They have no idea why her sister would have had all that. As far as they know there are no German ancestors and her sister couldn't speak or read German.
How intriguing! :)
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I know an old lady not far from here who had a German pen friend between the wars. The daughter of a German Aristocrat. When she went to stay with her pen friend, in the 30s, Adolf was a house guest. She related to me what a charming gentleman he was, it was quite a shock for her when she found out about the atrocities etc.
Back to WDYTYA, for my money it was an interesting look at between the wars European social history. As the programme is supposed to be aimed at a Genealogical audience, at least I presume so, for me it well and truly missed the mark. A shame as it is a programme I look forward to.
:(
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Not one of the best to be honest and rather indulgent of Marianne Faithfull I thought - used to fancy her like mad at one time and I have to say, she's still looking good!
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I know an old lady not far from here who had a German pen friend between the wars. The daughter of a German Aristocrat. When she went to stay with her pen friend, in the 30s, Adolf was a house guest. She related to me what a charming gentleman he was, it was quite a shock for her when she found out about the atrocities etc.
Thanks for that, I'll suggest perhaps it was a penpal either of my sister in law's sister, or an ancestor.
Lizzie.
ps. Better get back on topic. ;D
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Thanks for that, I'll suggest perhaps it was a penpal either of my sister in law's sister, or an ancestor.
Lizzie.
ps. Better get back on topic. ;D
[/quote]
What topic?
:-D
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Not particularly enjoying this series.
What has struck me, and maybe it's just me, but could she not have found out all about her mother's and grandmother's background just by talking to her mother.
Call me cynical but it just seems like a good excuse for free travel at the license payers expense. I have had the same thoughts about others covered in this series, if you are only going back one generation how difficult can it be.
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I didn't think to ask my mother-in-law and her mother about their family history while they were alive, and only got into family history at all, because M-i-L had started. And it was only because she had, that I thought to ask my own mother about my ancestors, before it was too late. She still keeps coming up with things she remembers! Was MF ever in a situation when she could ask her mother much about her background? She did mention that she knew that her mother and grandmother were both raped by Russian soldiers, so she obviously knew something about her mother's life during the war, but I can't remember if she said how old she was when she and her mother talked about it. That, of course, is the odd thing about many of the episodes, of whichever series, that few of the celebs seem to have talked much to their families about their ancestors, although some had made a start. It seems that, once the BBC has made the offer to look into their ancestors, it suddenly becomes really, really interesting to them!
Now, I realise, of course, that many of them are very busy people, and some of them, particularly in the earlier series, had made a start, but I do wonder if some of them really have a genuine interest in their ancestors. The Indian actor, Nitin, from whichever soap, obviously found his whole family history fascinating, and very much wanted to pass the story onto his young sons. Some, though, have been seriously underwhelmed, and that has applied to a number over all the series. Just looking at a load of papers can't help. I still wasn't sure, at the end of MF's episode, whether she'd learned much that she didn't know, or suspected, already.
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Valid point.
But perhaps her mother found it impossible to talk about in depth because of the trauma they suffered. It seemed apparent to me that what her mother and grandmother experienced was very deeply buried.
Maggie
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Some on this board may remember my queries going into my own mother's history which she refused point blank to go into. She died a couple of years ago so the secrets will never come out. She must have had very bad memories of it, so perhaps this is what happened in M.F's case.
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my own mother's history which she refused point blank to go into. She died a couple of years ago so the secrets willl never come out. She must have had very bad memories of it, so perhaps this is what happened in M.F's case.
lookingforold you could be talking about my own mother. We have discovered a lot about my mothers early history but there are still some questions to which we will never know the answers.
As Guy says [portrayed exactly the title of the program "Who Do You Think You Are", and gave the viewers an insight into why the subjects turned out as they did./quote] and to quote Ms Faithful again "Your family is the ground you stand on" and perhaps that is more important to some people than the many generations that went before.
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When I started trying to find out things about my family history (in the days before there was so much information readily available) my dad struggled to be able to give me much to go on as a starting point -and the things he knew to be "fact" turned out to be wrong! He was a child in the 1920's and said that in that era parents just didn't talk to their children in the same way as today. Whether they thought their children wouldn't be interested or whether they in turn hadn't been told anything that they could pass on I don't know. It's one of my greatest regrets that my dad died before I found out all the stuff I have - the times I've cursed at not being able to tell him the latest little snippet!
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This is my second post on this topic - but I just wanted to add-
Family history , of course, begins with the generation before you and as some have rightly said is crucial to "who we think we are". I don't mind the show uncovering the recent past.
But this particular episode had little content dragged out over an hour, in my opinion. Some photos and some papers - that was about all. Oh and of course the rolled out, professional tree which we are given a glimpse of. It didn't make riveting viewing. And Marianne's father's family would have been interesting subjects too and didn't even rate a mention.
I hope John Simpson's episode has the series closing on a high ;)
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John Simpsons grandmother ran away with Samuel Cody, looking at Wiki P it looks as though we shan't get back much further with his history, maybe we'll get a bit more on his grandma :D
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Yes there was a bit of spoiler on TV last week
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Samuel Cody isn't a blood relative of John Simpson, so I suppose they couldn't spend much time on him. The write up about the programme states that they also cover his g.grandmother's career in touring shows and also hunt for the pub run by the man she dumped - I presume they mean his g.grandfather.
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Hi All
Well I failed miserably last night. I did stay up to see this programme - saw the beginning then fell asleep :( I think I woke briefly and saw the unveiling of the much despised ready made family tree, then feel asleep again. I don't know why. Even in past series if the topic was not something that I was researching or overly interested in I still never fell asleep. It seems to be coming a habit!
I do agree with other comments in that the social history is important and all part of genealogy & family history, but there must be something in the way these programmes have been devised that just aren't doing it for me.
I better make sure I have a strong coffee ready when I watch John Simpson's story! Cheers.
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When I started trying to find out things about my family history (in the days before there was so much information readily available) my dad struggled to be able to give me much to go on as a starting point -and the things he knew to be "fact" turned out to be wrong! He was a child in the 1920's and said that in that era parents just didn't talk to their children in the same way as today. Whether they thought their children wouldn't be interested or whether they in turn hadn't been told anything that they could pass on I don't know. It's one of my greatest regrets that my dad died before I found out all the stuff I have - the times I've cursed at not being able to tell him the latest little snippet!
I 100% agree with you, exactly the same for me and my dear dad. Mine wasn't always wrong, just remembering from the perspective of a child. Listening to grown ups and getting the facts mixed up.
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I have just read all the posts on this topic.
"Falling asleep" seems to be something that comes across strongly, if this is down to a days honest work then bless you all, but if it is down to boredom, lack of interest then I will give you a French saying often quoted to British Soldiers towards the end of the Second World War and in the immediate aftermath; " consider yourself fortunate you have not been occupied" . The trauma suffered by Miss Faithfull's female relatives is of an enormity the like of which we could never understand and is not likely to be understood by a British audience -ever! then or now.
If any of your own grandfathers could not speak of what they witnessed in Europe maybe this is so.
I hope I have not " bored" you!!.
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I'm not bored at all stormtroop and welcome to Rootschat.
Actually I'm one of the few who was both fascinated and horrified by what this family had to cope with and I didn't fall asleep. As I said on page one, Ken Follett's novel 'Winter if the World' tells of the horrifying effects of WW2 on various families - the sections about the Russian 'liberation' of Berlin and what they did to the women were horrific.
Only a novel I know, but it helped me understand a bit of history about which I knew nothing, and mirrored MF's family experiences.
Maggie :)
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Hi stormtroop,
Personally the subject topic of Marianne's family history did not "bore" me. :)
However the presentation, editing and padding out of some of the episodes of this current run of WDYTYA has....unfortunately :(
The horrors and suffering of WW2 are an emotive subject. And you are correct, I am thankful, I've never experienced that trauma.
Looby
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I have just read all the posts on this topic.
"Falling asleep" seems to be something that comes across strongly, if this is down to a days honest work then bless you all, but if it is down to boredom, lack of interest then I will give you a French saying often quoted to British Soldiers towards the end of the Second World War and in the immediate aftermath; " consider yourself fortunate you have not been occupied" . The trauma suffered by Miss Faithfull's female relatives is of an enormity the like of which we could never understand and is not likely to be understood by a British audience -ever! then or now.
If any of your own grandfathers could not speak of what they witnessed in Europe maybe this is so.
I hope I have not " bored" you!!.
I don't think anyone on here was bored by the subject of the programme, stormtroop, nor were they in any way belittling or diminishing what MF's mother and grandparents went through. What those of us who fell asleep or found boring was the presentation. I have a passionate interest in Stuart history, and Nick Hewer's episode involved mostly that. Yet, I wandered away from the tv, because the way the whole thing was presented reminded me just why I hated history so much at school. History needs to brought alive, or you might as well just sit and read dry text books at home. and that, I'm afraid, was exactly why I found MF's programme tedious - it was all pieces of paper! Stephen Fry's ancestors also went through very similar (and worse) to those of MF, but the programme was never boring. It's all in the presentation, or not, as the case may be!
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I totally agree bear. There is a scientist, who's name I will not mention, he presents the occasional programme on something I am fascinated with. But he is so DRY I turn off after ten minutes of watching him. On the other hand there is a historian, who has me hooked within the first three minutes. It is all in the presentation, and with the current series that IS boring.
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;D larkspur. I know what you mean. I have no great interest in children generally, other than my own, but I'm a great 'fan' of Sir Robert Winston and his childhood studies on tv. So much so, in fact, that I went off and spent a fair amount on a couple of OU courses on the subject. I'm sure most people can remember teachers at school who brought a subject alive for them, and those who turned them right off their subject, maybe permanently. The presentation of a programme on tv can make a huge difference to viewing figures and, sadly, I suspect the figures for WDYTYA may have dwindled a bit this series.
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Again, thank you for your replies.
Mind W.D.Y.T.Y.A. may not be presented in a way people can relate to. There is a book called " Savage Continent" also a dvd which was banned in France for 20 years I think it was called "The Sorrow and and Pity" about the Nazi occupation of France, I could not watch it after 15 minutes and what I did watch , I will carry with me to my grave. We criticise older people for not liking "abroad", they saw enough of it after the war during the retributions which went on in the aftermath which in some cases were even worse than the conflict itself.
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Hi Stormtroop! I've posted elsewhere that I have a copy of a letter, sent by my husband's great-uncle (brother of husband's maternal grandfather) to his mother, shortly before being sent to the Front in WWI. He was in Oz, but enlisted because his brothers back in England had done so. He writes that he has as much chance of surviving as anyone, which he didn't. It's written with such cheerfulness and hope, that it brings a lump to my throat, and I've read it through any number of times. That sort of document brings a person to life again, somehow. The ironic thing is that all three of his brothers back in England did survive, although one died a couple of years after the war, possibly as result of wounds.
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Such letters are sad to read but how did they reflect what they really felt and what they wanted to say? They were heavily censored as you can imagine and I very much doubt he would have been able to even hint at how things really were. I read many similar letters some time back on a visit to the War Museum in London and elsewhere and so many have the same upbeat message to loved ones back home. They really were heartbreaking to read.
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I agree, Graham, and I suspect a lot of them were terrified. This man didn't even have pressure on him to go, being in Oz, but he obviously believed it was the right thing to do, because his brothers were going and, as you imply, it's the meaning behind what was actually written that makes it all so sad. The fact that he says, three times, "Cheer up, Mother" is a case in point. Is he trying to stop his mother worrying (as if, being a mother myself), or himself? :'(
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Some things are just too horrifying, I remember a story told to me by an uncle of mine, 6 young men all 19 years old driving across Germany 1944/45, they come across a wood with some huts hidden within, being curious they alighted from the truck and moved towards the encampment. They noticed no birds singing, complete silence, one large hut stood out the distance, the door was completely black, as though painted in black paint-shiny black paint, they were curious still, they moved closer for the paint seems to drip slowly and have a life of its own , as they moved closer the paint was more mobile moving in all directions, a sense of evil started to surround them , enveloping them as they moved forward clawing its way around them. When they got up to the large double door of the hut; it was covered in human fleas. My uncle said " you have never seen 6 young lads move so fast to get out of that place as we did, we ran like gazelles "
It was not what they saw , it was what they felt.
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...
However the presentation, editing and padding out of some of the episodes of this current run of WDYTYA has....unfortunately :(
Watching the John Hurt episode has made me realise how much the series has changed. This episode is great, he is learning about people but we've also seen him digging through census records andd doing research to find relatives rather than being presented with a list of names.
The padding I've not enjoyed such as Sarah Millican dressing up in a divers suit and learning to walk in snow shoes. Im interested in actually getting from A to B and what documents are found to take us on that trip.
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Maybe they should change this to Who Do You Think You Are Kidding?
It is not something I think I will bother to watch again which is a great pity. Like so much they start well eventually become lazy in their production and veer off track.
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Maybe they should change this to Who Do You Think You Are Kidding?
It is not something I think I will bother to watch again which is a great pity. Like so much they start well eventually become lazy in their production and veer off track.
Pretty much agree. It was once a "must watch" but now has gotten to the stage of I'll watch if there is absolutely nothing else on.
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I wonder if the padding is there to reduce the "interesting bit" down to around 45 minutes to fit in with the commercial channels where it is ultimately shown. When the BBC showed the US series it was around 40 minutes long due to the removal of the adverts.
Eric
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I regularly do media surveys, and the questions asked about the programmes watched, vary. Some are obviously just 'tick over' questions - making sure that a certain programme is keeping its standard. Others have more in-depth questions. It's been interesting that, in the main, the two programmes where there hasn't been much scope to make further comment are WDYTYA and Friday night's One Show, in which Chris Evans is one of the presenters. I've taken that to mean that WDYTYA is either staying as it is, or that it's being phased out. In the case of the One Show, despite his lack of popularity with a lot of people, Chris Evans is being 'protected'. Basically, the BBC doesn't seem to care about public opnion!
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Well, I think we are all mostly aware of that... as long as we keep paying the TV Tax oops sorry licence. ::)
Its the annoyingly LOUD music over dialogue that drives me crazy...WHY ???
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Well, I think we are all mostly aware of that... as long as we keep paying the TV Tax oops sorry licence. ::) ;)
Its the annoyingly LOUD music over dialogue that drives me crazy...WHY ???
Happens on so many programmes, sadly.
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Yes, which is why Bearsome, I turn off, even though I would have enjoyed the programme. I cannot stand having to struggle to hear over music I do not want or need.
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\\\\\\\\i get annoyed that it is always someone who is famouse, why not surprise someone with family information they don't know who isn't famousewith regards to heir hunters they always make it out that the people involved are money grabbing when they tell them