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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: tcab on Monday 16 September 13 14:50 BST (UK)
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I am failing to find a date and place of birth for Elizabeth Tapper (G G M )
Her bible states she was born 21 October but does not give a year.
I know she married Hugh Black on 23 June 1872 at Aldershot and on the certificate her age could be
20 or 26. Father's name shown as Elias
She later married William Hill in Guernsey on 19 November 1882 and her age is given as 28.
She appears in the 1911 census with an age of 57 and birth year 1854 and her birthplace stated as Stratford England.
I have tried the variations of Topper, Tupper, Tappen etc but without success.
Any clue will be appreciated
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Goodness she married twice in the same year :o
Is birthplace consistent on all census?
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Sorry--Marriage to Hill was 1882--original note now amended.
I have only found her in 1911 census--after marriage to Hugh, who was in the army, they were posted to Cork in Ireland and spent some years there
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Right so she wouldn't be on a census in England then if in Cork.
Not finding an Elias Tapper anywhere nor the Guernsey one you found so not being much help sorry!
What surname is she under in 1911? I've been through all the Elizabeth's and can't find one born Stratford England.
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She is shown as Mrs E Hill living with one of her sons Charles R Black and his wife Mrs H A Black. Ther were at Livingstone Road Walthamstow.
But now I have looked at this more closely although her birthplace is given as Stratford and Mrs Black's birthplace is given as Shaftesbury there is a small note asking for these two pieces of information to be reversed.
So Elizabeth Tapper ( Black and then Hill) was born in Shaftesbury not Stratford-- but even with that
information I have a quick look and still not found her!
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1861 staying with a couple named Adlem in Donhead, Wilts - RG 9/Piece: 1320; Folio: 40; Page: 4
Elizabeth C Tapper born c1853, Shaftesbury ...
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Classic name reversal perhaps?
Births Sep 1852
Tapper, Catherine Elizabeth Shaftesbury 5a 211
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Birth
Ap/may/jun 1854
Shaftesbury ref 5a 245
Elizabeth Ann Tapper
Doesnt fit with October birthday though!
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Or - if she was a little older than we are led to believe, but WAS born October-
Oct/nov/dec 1850
Shaftesbury ref 8 93
Elizabeth Tapper
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1871 in Service aged 19 in Hammersmith - mistransed as TOPPER - now using Catherine E forenames ...
RG10/Piece: 58; Folio: 84; Page: 39
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Catherine Elizabeth Tapper marries in Shaftsbury in 1877, so probably not the one we want
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Does 'your' one ever give Catherine as a second name?
At the risk of total confusion, as we are following two different possibles here, the one without the Catherine middle name, the plain Elizabeth I found bn 1850, MIGHT be the one recorded as Brown in 1851 at HO107 1851 94 3
Living with grandma Sarah Tapper, who has married daughter Mary Brown there and numerous Brown grandchildren.
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And, lo and behold, Mary Tapper married ELIAS Brown in 1838!
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Slightly confused as Elias and Mary Ann Brown are on 1861 (in their 50s) with daughter Martha 11 - previous censuses suggest one other child Levi, b c1840
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Many thanks for all recent posts. in all the written evidence I have there are no mentions of a second name.
If the Mary Tapper and Elias Brown connection is correct any ideas why on Elizabeth's first marriage certificate her fathers name is shown as Elias Tapper?
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ah - that Elias Brown married Mary Ann Miles in 1834.
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Many thanks for all recent posts. in all the written evidence I have there are no mentions of a second name.
If the Mary Tapper and Elias Brown connection is correct any ideas why on Elizabeth's first marriage certificate her fathers name is shown as Elias Tapper?
I just wondering if she, for some reason, she was brought up by granny and thus used the surname Tapper. When aaked for dads name at her marriage, she said Elias, and it got recorded as Elias Tapper (I have seen this sortof thing before)
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Trying to tie all the information together I've got this far--
The 1838 marriage between Elias Brown and Mary Tapper seem to be her parents.
The image of the 1841 census (obtained through FamilySearch) show Elias Brown's occupation as "Plasterer" which is the description used for the father on Elizabeth Tapper's first marriage certificate.
The 1841 census also shows children Sarah and Hannah. When we get to 1851 census Mary Brown is shown as married ( rather than widow) with Sarah, Hannah and four other children the youngest most likely being the Elizabeth I am seeking. There is no mention of Elias and I cannot find a record of him later. I have also struggled to find members of the family in later census's only possibility being Phillis who showed up in the 1861 being in a workhouse.
The birth record of Elizabeth Tapper in the last quarter of 1850 is the correct period of the year and is in Shaftesbury but why was she not registered as Elizabeth Brown? Curious her birth is registered as Tapper but a short while later she is shown as Brown in the census. Elias seems to have disappeared.
Any further help or thoughts appreciated.
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I was wondering about the birth too. Maybe that isnt hers at all.
You may end up having to get a certificate to see.
And check for an Elizabeth Brown birth?
Or christenings for the children.
Certainly a mystery as to what the story is, but I am sure it will get sorted in the end.
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I think Sarah Brown marries a John Young and can be found in Alvediston, Wilts in 1861 - subreg district of Donhead, so not too far from the Elizabeth C Tapper b Shaftesbury 1853 who is with the Adlems
John Young 30
Sarah Young 22 - b Shroton
Frank Young 5
Mary Jane Young 5 Months
Sarah Tapper 75 - visitor b Iwerne
RG 9, 1320, 8, 10
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Hannah can be found as a servant in Portsea in 1861 & 1871 and from 1881 onwards as a nurse/servant in the Walton household in Mere, Wilts. Her full name appears to be Hannah Green Brown
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I now have the birth certificate for the Elizabeth Tapper born in Shaftesbury in 1850
Her father was Thomas Tapper, a hair dresser, and she was born on 7 September. As I am looking for a father named Elias,a plasterer, and a birth date of 21 October seems I am almost back to the beginning!
If I continue to work on Mary Tapper and Elias Brown being her parents (1841 census ) this suggests I am looking for a birth of Elizabeth Brown who used her mothers name later on. There appear to be just a few births in the range 1849/1850 and none of them seem to be in the right quarter.
If this is not the correct Elizabeth I need to look at Elizabeth Tapper births in the range 1852/54 to tie in with her age on marriage certificates. What can I do to avoid buying a lot of birth certificates to try to find the right one?
As always appreciative of peoples time and effort on my behalf
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Seeing as it was fairly early on , her birth may not have been registered , it wasn't till 1870's time that people were fined for not registering a birth