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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: madburg on Monday 16 September 13 03:55 BST (UK)
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Has any one found any information on a John Burgin b1794 in Gunby, or Gonerby or Gt Gonerby according to different census. He then lived in Stamford and appears to have been married to a range of Elizabeth's - the last being Elizabeth Main or Mane. I'm trying to find his parents and so get further back with my tree. Their son Willie moved to SE Derbyshire and took the name Burgoyne, which was a common name there with quite a dynesty.
Outside ancestry.com I have found a post that suggest there was a Joseph Burgin b1776 who married Mary Bartram b1770 in Gunby in 1795. Which looks promising as potential parents, but I can't find any official records of this. There are several public ancestry.com trees with a Joseph marrying a Mary Hart, who then live around Foston in Lincolnshire - but I can't find any link to Gunby. The parents of this Joseph being Francis Burgin b abt1738 and Elizabeth Hawley b abt 1738. But again no links to Gunby.
Any help or suggestions appreciated.
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Outside ancestry.com I have found a post that suggest there was a Joseph Burgin b1776 who married Mary Bartram b1770 in Gunby in 1795.
My marriage index confirms that there was such a marriage at Gunby (St Nicholas) near Grantham.
Note that there is also a Gunby (St Peter) which is near Spilsby.
:)
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Thanks Geoff. I expect it to be Gunby, St Nicholas. Can you confirm the wifes maiden name?
However things get complicated when I get to records, as their son John Burgin, (the subject of my research so far) if it is in fact their son comes up as follows in the census.
In 1841 he is in Stamford Baron, with wife Elizabeth b1792 and two daughters Sarah b1823 and Elizabeth b1825
The wife I have for him in the 1851 is Elizabeth (the same as above I think, b1793 in S Witham, though he is now down as coming from Gt Gonerby.
In 1861 there is different(?) wife Elizabeth b1819 from Cosby, he's down as from Gonerby.
In 1871 his wife is Elizabeth (Main or Mane we think this time) b1826 in Blaby, and he's down as from Gt Gumerley.
Its with this wife that we think he has a son John William (Willie) b1862 in St Martins (Stamford?) Northamptonshire - christened Stamford Baron 1861.
In 1881 William (Willie) now is in Alfreton living with his uncle John J Walton (or Warton) and family. I can't find any link to the Walton's for how he is their nephew.
All the above fits together, but is John William's (Willies) grandfather, the Joseph Burgin who married Mary Bartram. Even if it is I don't seem to be able to get further back.
Any more suggestions?
Martin
Western Australia
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I have a little conflicting info;
Christenings, St Martin, Stamford Baron, Northamptonshire;
WILLIAM Burgin, 09 Sept 1820
SARAH Burgin, 03 August 1822
ELIZABETH Burgin, 24 April 1825
JOHN Burgin, 09 April 1827, Buried 14 April 1827, age 2 weeks
Parents JOHN/SARAH
Fathers Occp Labourer
Abode Stamford Baron
So if these have Mother as SARAH then Elizabeth on 1841 Census is is a second Wife.
MARRIAGE same Church (St Martin);
08 March 1841
(just before 1841 Census was taken)
John BURGIN, Widower, Labourer, Abode Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire
Elizabeth REYNOLDS, Widow, Dressmaker, Abode St Martins Stamford Baron
Grooms Father JOHN Burgin, Labourer
Brides Father William INGLE, Labourer
Witnesses, Thomas PECK/Ann BAINS
BURIAL;
SARAH Burgin, 16 July 1840, St Mary, Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire
Age 41 (Birth c 1799)
Ah;
MARRIAGE same Church;
05 August 1819
John BURGIN, Bachelor, Parish-Whittering in the County of Northampton
Sarah WALLBAND, Spinster, Parish-St Martin
Witnesses, Rbt BEASLY/Elizabeth INGLE*
BAPTISM;
John BURGOYNE Baptised 04 October 1793, St Sebastion, Great Gonerby, Lincolnshire
Parents JOHN/ANNE
(several Siblings on there also uner Burgen/Burgoyne etc)
MARRIAGE;
23 February 1789, St Wulfrum, Grantham, Lincolnshire
John BURGEN, Bachelor of Great Gonnerby, Lin, Parish
Ann GRAY, Spinster of Grantham Parish
All on FreeREG
Trish :)
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Do you have John Williams Birth Cert to establish his Mothers maiden name?
FreeREG;
BAPTISM; 25 May 1861, BURGOIN John William, Northamptonshire, Stamford Baron
Parents JOHN/ELIZABETH
Fathers Occp Labourer
BURIALS;
St Martin, Stamford Baron, Northamptonshire
ELIZABETH Burgin, 17 Aug 1847, age 56
ELIZABETH Burgoin, 26 May 1851, age 58
PS, welcome to Rootschat :)
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Re the Waltons;
Likely Marriage Reg;
John WALTON, Sept 1862, Belper, 7b 592
Millicent STORER on same page
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Thanks Trish,
Yes we reason that John Burgin b1794 had three wives all named Elizabeth! His last one being Elizabeth Main (Mane). This fits as when Willie marries (Mary Ann Abbott) he has a niece living with him called Ada (Charlotte?) Mayne. I don't have a birth certificate for Willie, but a christening record b 25 May 1861 mother Elizabeth.
I have the John Y Walton and Millicent Storer link from the 81 census but can't get much further back with John Walton to find any link that would make Willie his nephew, or even Millicents nephew.
Its getting back to Willies grandfather and further, that is my main intertest, and is where I've drawn a blank.
There must be some link to why Willie went to SE Derbyshire as there are loads of Burgoyne's there. Why did Willie go to Alfreton? In 1881 he's down as an office Clerk which suggests more education, than I would have expected from his roots.
Any further suggestions appreciated.
Martin Burgoyne
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Yes, possibly he married at least 2 Elizabeths but the 1st Wife was Sarah Wallband.
I think you need the Birth Cert of John William 1861.
Then you need the M/C to establish John and Elizabeths Fathers names/occp's.
It is imperative you get these to make sure you are following the correct Family line.
In Family Research there are no short-cuts and money must be spent.
I am pretty sure the John 1794ish Baptism I have give you is the correct one.
The 1841 Marriage for John Burgin to Elizabeth Reynolds has his Father as JOHN a Labourer.
Trish :)
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Many thanks again Trish, very, very helpful!
The M/C details we have for John Burgoin and Elizabeth Mane are:
Married: 10 October 1857
John Burgoin age 60 Elizabeth Mane age 40
John - Widower Elizabeth - Spinster
John - Cow Keeper Elizabeth - Cook Domestic Servant
Residence John - Saint Martins, Stamford Elizabeth - Rutland Terrace, Stamford
Father's name: John - John Burgoin Elizabath - John Mane
Profession of Father: John - Agricultural Labourer Elizabeth - Stocking Weaver
Sorry we do have a B/C for John William:
Born: 5 May 1861 Back Street, Saint Martins, Stamford
Name: John William
Father: John Burgoin (note the different spelling)
Mother: Elizabeth Burgoin formerly Mane
Occupation of father: General labourer
It appears that this Elizabeth came from Leicestershire so this is perhaps where the link to the Walton's comes in.
If as you say the John Burgin /Burgoyne baptised 1793 is the correct father of Willie then he sired Willie at the age of 68 - quite impressive! In which case Willies grandfather was the John Burgin who married Ann Gray in Gt Gonnerby in 1789. NOT the Joseph Burgin/Mary Bartram who married in Gunby in 1795 as confirmed by Geoff-E. I had thought Gunby, Gonerby and Gt Gonnerby where corruptions of the same place! So I guess the correct John Burgin we are looking at was born around 1768. :)
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Well I am pleasantly surprised to find you have the Birth/Marriage Certs.
It is so frustrating on here when we tell people that Certs are needed and they never get them.
I am a bit perplexed then as to why you were interested in Joseph/Mary Burgin if you knew Johns Father was a John?
Is it because you could find nothing on him?
I will look around and see if I can help more or Geoff-E may be able to also.
Cheers,
Trish :)
EDIT, although John is down as a Labourer in 1861 Census the Address for John Williams Birth Cert is correct.
1851 in Back St, John is a Cowkeeper so it all looks good.
I have had no luck find JW in 1871 Census though have you?
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BAPTISMS for JOHN/ANN at St Sebastian, Great Gonerby;
ROBERT, 16 Dec 1789
JOHN, 04 Oct 1793**
ANNE, 15 Aug 1798
MARY 12 April 1801
FANNY, 15 May 1803
ELIZABETH, 16 July 1806, Buried 05 April 1807, Infant
ELIZABETH, 14 Oct 1810, Buried 22 Nov 1814 age 4
MARTHA, 17 Aug 1816
ELIZABETH, 19 July 1819, Buried 08 Dec 1823 age 4
JANE, 24 Nov 1822
ROBERT poss Married Ann LAWSON 26 Nov 1817
FANNY under Frances poss Married Thomas GUTTERIDGE 10 May 1831
MARTHA poss Married William COULBY 03 June 1839 (Her Father is Dead on Record)
JANE poss Married John CANT 08 June 1840 (Father Dead)
Now either Ann died 1813 or she remarried after John died 1832
(or this Ann may be the Widow of Robert 1789)
MARRIAGE;
Matthew DEWEY, Widower
Ann BERGIN, Widow
18 Oct 1836 St Sebastian
BURIALS same Church;
ANN Burgin, 01 November 1813 age 47
JOHN Burgin, 06 July 1832 age 65
Searching these people down on Census may help confirm info.
All above on FreeREG using soundex option on Surname
Trish :)
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Ignore that Bergin/Dewey Marriage as Ann Dewey is alive in 1841 Census.
She died 1857 age 77, Birth c 1781 so too young to have Married 1789! (Matthew died 1840)
Looks like your John/Ann died 1813/1832 as posted. So born c 1766/1767
As Ann appears to have died 1813 then the last 3 Baptisms I posted for a John/Ann may not be theirs.
Unless this John was like his Son and remarried after Anns Death!
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Looks like he may have?
MARRIAGE;
24 Nov 1814, St Wulfrum, Grantham, Lincolnshire
John BURGIN, of Great Gonerby Parish, Widower
Ann BROOKS, Widow of Grantham Parish
Witnesses, John Scarborough/Charlotte Holmes
So he prob remarried and they had Martha/Elizabeth/Jane.
After his Death 1832 Ann most likely married Matthew DEWEY 1836
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All most helpful Trish - thanks. Was hoping some of the new names you have given, might have provide the key to the John Walton link, but nothing yet.
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I forgot to answer one of your queries "I am a bit perplexed then as to why you were interested in Joseph/Mary Burgin if you knew Johns Father was a John? Is it because you could find nothing on him?" Well yes exactly right! I was searching for any thing, and these names cropped up more than once against nothing for John!
Any how going back to my original post ......... " ..................The parents of this Joseph being Francis Burgin b abt1738 and Elizabeth Hawley b abt 1738. " I am now thinking that Joseph/Mary Burgin may be the brother of John. He seems to have a brother John born around the right time, but the family links to Foston or Barrowby, rather than Gonnerby.
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I'm finding this very interesting as my husband is descended from Francis Burgin and Elizabeth Hawley. This is their family as I have it but I must stress that it is only from online sources nothing proved as yet. I'm happy to be proved wrong!
They were married 8 Jan 1759 @ Barrowby (Family Search)
Their children were all baptised at Barrowby:
Elizabeth - abt 1762
Mary 1765
John - 1767, widow at time of marriage, 24 Nov 1814 to Ann Brooks b abt 1780, also a widow, maiden name unknown. John's first marriage not found yet. Ann went on to marry Matthew Dewey (she is living with her daughter Jane Caunt in 1851). John Burgin died 1832 Great Gonerby.
Robert Burgin - 1770 married Ann Lawson 1817 Gt Gonerby
Francis - 1772, d 1773
Francis - 1774
Joseph - 1777
Husband's tree comes down from John and Ann through their daughter Jane.
I wasn't aware of the alternative spelling "Burgoin" etc - off to investigate further!
Sue
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Hi Sue,
Good to have some more interest after Trish's excellent help. The Burgin line in my tree goes back with some certainty, to William Burgoyne my gggf who appears in Alfreton Derbyshire in 1881.
The census entry gives Stamford as his place of birth. After that, then we are 99% sure of the following.
We think he's in Stamford in 1871 - son of John Burgin b 1795 and Elizabeth Mane?? b 1817. This was John's last wife. There seems to have been a few otherwives as you will have picked up from the posts - Sarah Wallband b 1799, Elizabeth Reynolds b1810, and possibly another Elizabeth b1820.
Finding a father/mother for John b 1795/6 was the problem, but we now think its John Burgin b abt 1767 and Ann Gray b abt 1767. The same John that we think also married Ann Brooks. AND the same John that links to your Francis & Elizabeth (Hawley) Burgin.
My John William's move to the Alfreton is interesting - where his name becomes Burgoyne. There are a whole range of Burgoyne's in SE Derbyshire. So I think he may have gone there due to some family link with these Burgoyne's. As he was a clerk there I think the new spelling is correct - so the change of name, and what, and if there is a family link I have been unable to find.
Are there any SE Derbyshire links in your husbands tree?
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Well, if we're both right about our trees it would appear that you and my husband are half cousins three times removed :) as your John b1795ish and OH's GGGM, Jane b1822, had the same father. Possibly!
As far as I know none of husband's family ended up in Derbyshire but I haven't followed every branch. One twig did go to Peterborough but apart from us in Essex most of the others seem to have stayed in Lincs but there again I don't trace secondary lines very far forward so I could be wrong.
The information giving John Burgin's (1767) first wife is very helpful. I had made a note that her name was probably Ann but had not found a marriage.
If you want any more details let me know. I assume that you've had a look at Lincs to the Past?
Sue