RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Celticcrafter on Thursday 12 September 13 20:02 BST (UK)
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Hi Everyone.
Does anyone know why some of the church records on irishgenealogy.ie have images of some registers and not others.
Thanks, CC
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posting error.. no replies yet....CC
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Seems to be a bit missing from this thread ???
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In the early part of this project only a transcription was made of the records
Subsequently records were digitised
Link to history of project (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/about/index.html)
Under "update" it states that Dublin City is complete yet there are still some records without digital entries
There is a format for feedback on the site; this would allow you ask the question to the site designers/contributors directly
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It's also worth noting that there seems to be two sets of records for RC St Andrews- one with photos and one without, here's a random example
Without photo
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/de41f30429810
with photo
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/fd18390024282
Also - a personal gripe. When you start to compare these two sets, the quality of transcription varies wildly - for marriages, one set has mother's name of bride and groom as N/R and the other record will name them. To state that information has not been recorded when it has, is really poor. >:(
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Agreed Hasta
But at least they're still doing it!!
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I didn't know that! That's poor form, sometimes the only way of finding a mother's name is on baptismal records, to state it hasn't being recorded when it has seems quite strange. Must go back now and recheck some of my sources.
Amy
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Thank you guys for responding,
The church records are very frustrating sometimes. I don't know if you know about St Nicholas church but you can go to their website Francisstreetchurch.ie and get a password sent to you and then you can look at records from 1881 (I think) to 1889. I found a few of my rellies on there but you have to scroll through all the pages and some are out of date order and they are not complete either. I have tried several times to get an answer as to why some of the records are not there but they don't seem to want to say.
The reason I asked the question was because of the fact that like Trelawn mentioned sometimes it is the only place to find parents names. Then I got to thinking if they weren't recorded on the site that perhaps you could still see them on the original register and that they just hadn't been transferred properly. Then it would be worth contacting the church to see if they would do a search.
I have hit a wall with all the names on my side of the family.
My one rellies in particular I now think that she may have been adopted. I have looked for her birth under the name that is on her marriage certificate and also under the name my mam had given me but nothing. I have all sorts of information about her except her birth...She was born in 1868 but even the GRO has nothing for her.....Rumor has it that she was born in Manchester England so I tried the English sites...Nada.....So I have come to the conclusion that she was adopted. I don't know anything about how the adopted in the 1860's. Anyone know if there were records kept or did rellies just give them their name and raise them?
I have looked everywhere for her on free sites and paid sites. I haven't given up I am just stuck.
I guess I'll give the churches a go if I can figure out where my rellies may have been baptized.
CC
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My one rellies in particular I now think that she may have been adopted. I have looked for her birth under the name that is on her marriage certificate and also under the name my mam had given me but nothing. I have all sorts of information about her except her birth...She was born in 1868 but even the GRO has nothing for her.....Rumor has it that she was born in Manchester England so I tried the English sites...Nada.....So I have come to the conclusion that she was adopted. I don't know anything about how the adopted in the 1860's. Anyone know if there were records kept or did rellies just give them their name and raise them?
I have looked everywhere for her on free sites and paid sites. I haven't given up I am just stuck.
Adoption didn't come into place in Ireland until much later in the 20th century. Earlier 'adoption' was mostly just an informal arrangement between family members, friends or neighbours to look after a child.
Registration of births started in 1864 but wasn't totally compulsary until 1870- that, combined with the newness of the process, meant many births were simply not registered. However, in this particular case the child could have been registered in a different area, without a first name being chosen, under a different name than the one you've checked or simply much earlier/later than you think.
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If you haven't already you come start a topic looking for help with this birth
Sometimes fresh eyes can see something or try somewhere different
On early adoptions, some families just took in children and didn't change names but some did and pretended the child was their own. They were loose arrangements.
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Thank you Aghadowey, just got your post myluck can you have a read of this an see what you think..Thanks,...CC
I think I am really stuck with this one. The prison records put her in Dublin from 1886 and they list her birth place as Manchester. There's some 30 odd records. Her death certificate in 1947 has her age as 79. So I am thinking that she was born around 1867/69. Her marriage certificate has her fathers name as Richard May.
Church records from St Nicholas has her mother as a Martha Griffin. My mom has always said her maiden name was Griffin and that she was born in Manchester.
The witness on Richard and Martha's marriage cert is a Christina Griffin. My moms name is Christina. So here is my theory (be happy to know what you think).
My Great Grandmother told my Nana that her real name was Griffin in turn my Nana told my mom that her mothers maiden name was Griffin but did not elaborate on how she was adopted and my mom was called after the witness Christina Griffin. My mom is 87 she says she never knew her as a May. I think it is also possible that this Christina was my great grandmothers mother and she died and that Martha was Christina's sister and she took the baby and raised her as her own. Of course I could be completely wrong about the whole thing but, it doesn't make for a bad tale..
Just for a time line for you I have been working with this info for about a year....
However, you could be right she could have been born anywhere. The only problem with my scenario above is the Manchester birth place, she definitely not in the English records as a May or a Griffin. Which puts me back to what was her real name.
Another scenario if she was born to Christina in England and Christina registered her with the fathers name. I have just had a thought (dangerous thing) I wonder if I look for a Margaret born to a Christina Griffin in England what would I get. I'll have to get check that right now. That didn't work the English church records for that time don't show the mothers maiden name. So the search goes on.
She was a very troubled young women in and out of jail for many years. Plus she lost 11 children, 6 I believe in child birth (have not been able to find them). I contacted Glasnevin months ago and they said they would check the angel plot records for me but I have heard nothing yet. I found 3 in the St Nicholas records on their website and the last one is my own Nana, who managed to survive to the age of 83, she was the best.
Hope this post makes sense.
CC
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The witness on Richard and Martha's marriage cert is a Christina Griffin
Hi. I remember your Margaret 'May' from another thread
Where and when did Richard and Martha marry ? and have you found them on any census records ?
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The witness on Richard and Martha's marriage cert is a Christina Griffin
Hi. I remember your Margaret 'May' from another thread
Where and when did Richard and Martha marry ? and have you found them on any census records ?
Hi Hasta, yes you would have seen there names before from that thread I was able to find the prison records. Which took my a long way.
I can't find Richard or Martha on any census Irish or English. They were born around 1840's so must have died young.
The other reason why I think they are
Margarets parents (or raised her) is that the 3 children I know of other then my Nana their Names are:
Joseph born Dublin 1890 Died 1891, Richard Born Dublin 1895 Died 1896 & Martha Born Dublin 1899 Died 1904, my Nana was Margaret Born Dublin 1905 Died 1983.
Margaret May/Griffin /? married Joseph Nolan.
I imagine the first child was called after his father, Richard after his grandfather, and Martha after her grandmother and Margaret my nana was called after her mother.
Interestingly enough these four children where the only ones to live long enough to be christened. The 6 others I have not been able to find...
I found Margaret Nolan aged 35 and Martha Nolan aged 1 in 1901 census living in Stephen street.
Joseph was probably in prison (he was in prison a lot also but no as many times as Margaret lol). Margaret was in prison in 1911 so not on the 1911 census no Joseph either. Joseph much have been in prison as well although I have no prison record his records stop in 1907.
There is a Joseph Nolan on the 1911 census but they have him as single and a boot maker (that would not be him he had no trade).
CC
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Margaret was in prison in 1911 so not on the 1911 census no Joseph either.
Should be in the census even if in prison (or especially if in prison since officials would have filled out the return)- will be listed by initials rather than name, thus, Margaret Nolan should be listed as M.N.
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Margaret was in prison in 1911 so not on the 1911 census no Joseph either.
Should be in the census even if in prison (or especially if in prison since officials would have filled out the return)- will be listed by initials rather than name, thus, Margaret Nolan should be listed as M.N.
Wow awesome, found her straight away. Mountjoy Prison. Ta very much :) :) will look for Joseph now.
CC
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At least there's one advantage of having ancestors with a criminal past ;)
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At least there's one advantage of having ancestors with a criminal past ;)
I think I have found Joseph on the 1911 census.
I know Margaret senior is in jail. Margaret Junior is at North Brunswick Street found her under Nolan, MK. (well actually Dathai found her for me some time ago :)). I see that there is a J.N. listed at North Brunswick Street. So he wasn't in Jail and I think this was a workhouse. Would that be right could a Father and daughter be at the same workhouse? I don't know much about the workhouses I just assumed that the women would be separate from the men.
I have a prison record for Joseph in 1901 I just forgot But, looking back at the Nolan thread I had, Hasta had found Joseph on familysearch and that's how I knew he was in prison and not with Margaret and Martha but I had never printed off the record hence forgot where I got the information.
These two were certainly something else. :)
CC
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The witness on Richard and Martha's marriage cert is a Christina Griffin
Hi. I remember your Margaret 'May' from another thread
Where and when did Richard and Martha marry ? and have you found them on any census records ?
Hi Hasta, as well you should remember that thread. You gave me an invaluable piece of information about my Joseph and prison records. I found more for him with the birth place of Gt Longford Street.
Thanks again, you guys are really great on here I hope some day that I can help people the way y'all have helped me.
Regards CC
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Yep - the prison records are brilliant. I was delighted to find quite a few for my lot !
CC - you mentioned a marriage cert for Richard May and Martha Griffin, Where and when did that happen ? I'm not seeing on on freeBMD
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Just a quick follow up to say didn't have time to go through detail to answer but delighted others did and you have additional info.
Happy hunting!!
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Don't see anything in the UK but there is this marriage in St Nicholas 1866 between Richard May and Martha Griffin
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/879b570096694
I can't see it on the civil reg.
Three children
David 1867
Susan 1873
Martha 1879
but no Margaret or Christina... have you checked out the Margaret May born Dublin South 1870 ?
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Yep - the prison records are brilliant. I was delighted to find quite a few for my lot !
CC - you mentioned a marriage cert for Richard May and Martha Griffin, Where and when did that happen ? I'm not seeing on on freeBMD
Hi Hasta, I got their certs from St Nicholas church.
Richard May & Martha Griffin
Married 19 August 1866
Witnesses: Michael Westward -10 Back Lane - Catherine Bigly - 7 Skinners Alley
This information was on the back of Richard & Martha's cert
Parents:
Henry & Susan May 7 Skinners Alley
David & Elizabeth Griffin 8 Skinners Alley
Joseph Nolan & Margaret May
Married 3 March 1889
Witnesses: Peter O Hara & Christina Griffin
Addresses for Joseph and Margaret were on the back of their cert
Joseph 32 Church St - Margaret 10 Francis St
I actually gone the witness the wrong way around. I had said that Christina was Richard & Margarets witness when she was actually Joseph & Margarets.
That's were I was getting the griffin connection.
I am so confused right now.
CC
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No I will have a look
Don't see anything in the UK but there is this marriage in St Nicholas 1866 between Richard May and Martha Griffin
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/879b570096694
I can't see it on the civil reg.
Three children
David 1867
Susan 1873
Martha 1879
but no Margaret or Christina... have you checked out the Margaret May born Dublin South 1870 ?
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Hasta, I can't find the Dublin South one is she on Ancestry?.....
I also found a Margaret May born in Manchester in 1871 she is not on the 1881 census. I have sent for her birth certificate to see if the parents are Irish. Of course she could have died and that's why she's not on the 1881 census....Maybe the mothers name might be griffin...we will see....It takes forever for certs to come from England the GRO in Ireland is much faster......CC
quote author=Celticcrafter link=topic=661226.msg5075130#msg5075130 date=1379599414]
No I will have a lookDon't see anything in the UK but there is this marriage in St Nicholas 1866 between Richard May and Martha Griffin
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/879b570096694
I can't see it on the civil reg.
Three children
David 1867
Susan 1873
Martha 1879
but no Margaret or Christina... have you checked out the Margaret May born Dublin South 1870 ?
[/quote]
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Hi
No, Ancestry doesn't seem to produce it, here it is on Familysearch (FindMyPast also have it)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYYN-D3R
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Hi
No, Ancestry doesn't seem to produce it, here it is on Familysearch (FindMyPast also have it)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYYN-D3R
Is that the same as this extracted record?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5QL-2PJ
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Very interesting two different records..
The second one with mother & fathers name. Thomas and Jane
Just checked there is one on ancestry with the father Thomas and mother Jane.
So I wonder who the other record is. It's hard to say with familysearch because they duplicate a lot
however when they do that it is usually the same information.
I just had a look at my GRO papers they did do a search for Margaret May with Parents Richard & Martha between the dates 1866-1870. I thought they had only done 1868. So would that mean that the Margaret 1870 Dublin South on familysearch would not have the parents Richard & Martha.
Are there ever records missing from the GRO?
I that is the case then the familysearch records are probably dup's.
The Manchester birth place is very interesting as it's the one thing that seems to be consistent among my mam's family members although the names May and Griffin aren't. Plus the prison records all state her birth place as Manchester and maiden name May. The only records in England other then Ancestry are on thegenealogist.uk which I have access to but I have not found her. I have tried both names.
I am just lost. She had to come from somewhere.
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Children of Thomas May & Jane McEwen-
John (1866 Dublin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRHT-7JQ
baptism http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/e7be950120029
Mary Jane (1868 Dublin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPZS-HFD
baptism http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/2436b60234535
Margaret (1870 Dublin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5QL-2PJ
Jane (1872 Dublin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FP17-WS7
Helen (1874 Scotland) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ7N-4YT
Possible marriage (1865 Scotland) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYQZ-RYQ
The 1870 birth is an extracted Irish birth record and the one posted earlier is from the civil registration index (2 separate databases)
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Children of Thomas May & Jane McEwen-
John (1866 Dublin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRHT-7JQ
baptism http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/e7be950120029
Mary Jane (1868 Dublin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPZS-HFD
baptism http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/2436b60234535
Margaret (1870 Dublin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5QL-2PJ
Jane (1872 Dublin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FP17-WS7
Helen (1874 Scotland) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ7N-4YT
Possible marriage (1865 Scotland) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYQZ-RYQ
The 1870 birth is an extracted Irish birth record and the one posted earlier is from the civil registration index (2 separate databases)
Aghadowey, if this is my Margaret why would her marriage certificate say her father is Richard May.
Plus Nobody I have spoken with has ever mentioned a Scottish connection.
CC
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There were LOTS of different May families in Dublin and it looks like you might be getting them a bit muddled.
Children of Richard May & Martha Griffin-
David (1867 Dublin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5J7-HLR
baptism http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/e483120338210
Susan (1873 Dublin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGC9-K5V
baptism http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/7247810342445
Jane (1875 Dublin)- mother Anne
baptism http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/5c57eb0343767
Martha (1879 Dublin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGVS-1H5
baptism http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/5dd84f0346422
Marriage (1866 Dublin) Richard & Martha-
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/879b570096694
Also wondering about this record for Eliza May (1877)-
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/58fbfb0344917
Baptism for Anne Russell (1879) sponsors Richard & Margaret May
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/228a380346400
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I have the Eliza and Anne but they are too late Plus I know her name was Margaret.
I really do think that Richard and Martha are connected to her somehow. I do have their other children and she would fit in with their ages.
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I didn't say the Mays weren't connected- just that you are possibly getting them muddled.
The Anne in my last post was Anne Russell and the Eliza from 1877 might be another child but that has nothing to do with Margaret.
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I didn't say the Mays weren't connected- just that you are possibly getting them muddled.
The Anne in my last post was Anne Russell and the Eliza from 1877 might be another child but that has nothing to do with Margaret.
Sorry I am just frustrated...
Eliza is also possible as Michael and Martha do not have any other children that I have found. So Michael could just be an Error?
Believe it or not I have gone through all the church records and married up all the May and Griffin families.
Susan, Martha, & David all have Richard and Martha as parents...
I have the Jane that you found with a Anne Griffin for a mother but Anne is probably an error.
I have two Richards one married to Martha Griffin and the other one to an Anne Griffin. I didn't think about the name Anne being an Error.
Thinking about it now how many Richard Mays could there be married at that time.
Not a lot I would think considering that there are non on the 1901 census for their age. If there were two you would think one of them would have lived.
Anne Russell I think R & M were just her godparents.
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Anne Russell I think R & M were just her godparents.
Yes, that's what I said earlier-
Baptism for Anne Russell (1879) sponsors Richard & Margaret May
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/228a380346400
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So A, what do you really think is going on with my Margaret. Have you ever come across this scenario before?
How long have you been at this anyway? :) You have an awful lot of stars after your name. :)
CC
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CC - I'm sorry to bring you back to the prison registers, but it looks like Margaret's childhood was even more chaotic than her adulthood. Martha May has pages of convictions.(I basing this on the 1880 conviction with an address of 9 Chancery Lane where we know she was in 1879) They do reveal that she is born 1847 in Limerick. (in some her next of kin is daughter Margaret Nolan) Her daughter Martha has a few pages of her own.
Martha Jnr (says she is born 1880 Skinners Alley - not entirely correct but not far off) names her next of kin as Martha DOODY. It seems Richard May has died and Martha Snr has married Patrick Doody in 1888. Reams more prison records under that name.
She has twin boys in 1887 with Patrick Doody, Christopher and Patrick.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/81fc480289122
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/961eb50289123
Margaret May is Christopher's god mother.
Poor old Martha is still going strong in the 1911 census in Basin Street
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Usher_s_Quay/Basin_St__Lower/73847/
It's not the workhouse but seems to be an institution of some kind.
It's a pity they didn't ask the widows about their children's births. I suspect that Martha had many more children then the few (and few suspected) found so far and hasn't registered them.
There are two many possible scenarios, but the simplest one is that Martha had Margaret illegitimately - where is another question.
I think the Christina that you mention is Martha's brothers daughter, so Margaret's cousin.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ec5f9e0340177
I also found what appears to be Martha Griffin/May/Doody's sister being re baptised by her uncle Robert Neville at age 11 - haven't completely figured out what is going on there - but here it is if you want a look
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/3e1c840337440
:) Be patient on Margaret's birth - it will surface eventually (fingers crossed) I have plenty I have been looking for for years now.
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CC - I'm sorry to bring you back to the prison registers, but it looks like Margaret's childhood was even more chaotic than her adulthood. Martha May has pages of convictions.(I basing this on the 1880 conviction with an address of 9 Chancery Lane where we know she was in 1879) They do reveal that she is born 1847 in Limerick. (in some her next of kin is daughter Margaret Nolan) Her daughter Martha has a few pages of her own.
Martha Jnr (says she is born 1880 Skinners Alley - not entirely correct but not far off) names her next of kin as Martha DOODY. It seems Richard May has died and Martha Snr has married Patrick Doody in 1888. Reams more prison records under that name.
She has twin boys in 1887 with Patrick Doody, Christopher and Patrick.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/81fc480289122
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/961eb50289123
Margaret May is Christopher's god mother.
Poor old Martha is still going strong in the 1911 census in Basin Street
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Usher_s_Quay/Basin_St__Lower/73847/
It's not the workhouse but seems to be an institution of some kind.
It's a pity they didn't ask the widows about their children's births. I suspect that Martha had many more children then the few (and few suspected) found so far and hasn't registered them.
There are two many possible scenarios, but the simplest one is that Martha had Margaret illegitimately - where is another question.
I think the Christina that you mention is Martha's brothers daughter, so Margaret's cousin.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ec5f9e0340177
I also found what appears to be Martha Griffin/May/Doody's sister being re baptised by her uncle Robert Neville at age 11 - haven't completely figured out what is going on there - but here it is if you want a look
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/3e1c840337440
:) Be patient on Margaret's birth - it will surface eventually (fingers crossed) I have plenty I have been looking for for years now.
Your awesome really I don't know what else to say.
I know about this Martha but did not put her with Margaret because I have her married to as you say Patrick Doody and her name is Griffin. You would think it would be May :-\. I'll get all this one day :)
I think you are right though it needed some new eyes and the expertise helps. I have so much paperwork sometimes I don't know if I am coming or going plus I tend to jump around even though I have read you shouldn't do that. I think that adds to my confusion..
I have the twins also... She probably had a rake of little ones as Margaret herself had 12.
I really feel like you are on the right track.
I am going to take some time to read through your message again printout the records and try and get it all straight in my head.
I just wanted to let you know I really appreciate all the help.
CC
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In cases like these it can help to keep a timeline where you can add new details as you find them. I do them in a Word document.
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In cases like these it can help to keep a timeline where you can add new details as you find them. I do them in a Word document.
Thank you for the tip, sounds like a good one :)
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CC - I'm sorry to bring you back to the prison registers, but it looks like Margaret's childhood was even more chaotic than her adulthood. Martha May has pages of convictions.(I basing this on the 1880 conviction with an address of 9 Chancery Lane where we know she was in 1879) They do reveal that she is born 1847 in Limerick. (in some her next of kin is daughter Margaret Nolan) Her daughter Martha has a few pages of her own.
Martha Jnr (says she is born 1880 Skinners Alley - not entirely correct but not far off) names her next of kin as Martha DOODY. It seems Richard May has died and Martha Snr has married Patrick Doody in 1888. Reams more prison records under that name.
She has twin boys in 1887 with Patrick Doody, Christopher and Patrick.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/81fc480289122
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/961eb50289123
Margaret May is Christopher's god mother.
Poor old Martha is still going strong in the 1911 census in Basin Street
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Usher_s_Quay/Basin_St__Lower/73847/
It's not the workhouse but seems to be an institution of some kind.
It's a pity they didn't ask the widows about their children's births. I suspect that Martha had many more children then the few (and few suspected) found so far and hasn't registered them.
There are two many possible scenarios, but the simplest one is that Martha had Margaret illegitimately - where is another question.
I think the Christina that you mention is Martha's brothers daughter, so Margaret's cousin.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ec5f9e0340177
I also found what appears to be Martha Griffin/May/Doody's sister being re baptised by her uncle Robert Neville at age 11 - haven't completely figured out what is going on there - but here it is if you want a look
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/3e1c840337440
:) Be patient on Margaret's birth - it will surface eventually (fingers crossed) I have plenty I have been looking for for years now.
UPDATE
I have no idea how any of my rellies survived at all..
The last record I found for Martha Snr was in 1907 she was 60 and in for Assault. Daughter Martha like you said has a string of records. I even found one record for Martha Snr and the line above was Margaret both did 7 days I think.....
Martha & Patrick had a daughter Christina Doody McGuiness never guess where I found her :o Plus Martha's hubby Patrick has a few records of his own. ::)
I do think you are right about Martha and David being siblings as I found David's marriage to Mary Millen/ Maria Millar and Martha Griffin is a witness:
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/193c950096444
I don't know how to make the link work :-\
Anyway they have 3 more children and to check them out.
CC
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The last record I found for Martha Snr was in 1907
I can see her up to 1913 and 1914 - like this one
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KM7M-8RR
(notice Margaret Nolan and the Basin Lane address from the 1911 census)
I think she must the Martha Doody died:
Oct - Dec 1921 Age: 71
Birth Year: 1850 Dublin South
Vol: 2 Pg: 435
Depending on the prison records she is born between 1842 and 1847 so she could have been 79 in 1921.
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Martha Doody's name is not on the Glasnevin index for 1921 but there is a Margaret Nolan aged 72 in 1921???
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The last record I found for Martha Snr was in 1907
I can see her up to 1913 and 1914 - like this one
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KM7M-8RR
(notice Margaret Nolan and the Basin Lane address from the 1911 census)
I think she must the Martha Doody died:
Oct - Dec 1921 Age: 71
Birth Year: 1850 Dublin South
Vol: 2 Pg: 435
Depending on the prison records she is born between 1842 and 1847 so she could have been 79 in 1921.
Hi Hasta & dathai,
I think I may have all Martha's records now a whopping 36. Last one being yours Hasta, 1914 Residence Basin Lane.
I think you are probably right about when she died 1921. I can hardly believe she lived that long :)
Dathai, Margaret Nolan, Martha's daughter died in 1947. I have her records. Ta too Much.
It does look like Margaret lived with Martha some of the time. She was married from number
10 Francis street.
I found another discrepancy in the records for Susan = Martha & Richard daughter.
This church record says she was born in 1873
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/7247810342445
The civil record says she was born in 1878
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=fsirelandcivregbirth&h=3038070&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t38934399_p28017907570_kpidz0q3d28017907570z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid
This is Ancestry's birth and Baptism record
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=fsirelandbirth&ssrc=pt_t38934399_p28017907570_kpidz0q3d28017907570z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid_m1&srchb=r&gss=angs-d&rank=1&tid=38934399&pid=28017907570&gsfn=Susan&gsln=May&msbdy=1878&msbpn__ftp=5+Patrick+Street%2c+Dublin+South%2c+Ireland&cp=0&cpxt=0&msfng=Richard&msfns=May&msmng=Martha&msmns=Griffin&msbng0=David&msbns0=May&msbng1=Margaret&msbns1=May&msbng2=Martha&msbns2=May&msbng3=Mary+Anne&msbns3=May&msbng4=Christopher&msbns4=Doody&msbng5=Patrick&msbns5=Doody&pcat=BMD_BIRTH&fh=0&h=262885&recoff=5+6+25+26+37+38&ml_rpos=1
I am going to send to the GRO for her birth cert plus the other children's.
Martha's first child was born in 1867 and the twins were born in 1887. That's 20 years so I think you are right there was probably more children.
I thought I had found one a Mary Anne, church register says she was a foundling.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/b881570346958
but then I realized that Martha jr was born the same year as Mary Anne.
The prison record for Martha for 1880 has her with a Female child
http://search.findmypast.com/record?id=ire%2fprisr%2frs00018280%2f4492645%2f00365&parentid=ire%2fprisr%2frs00018280%2f4492645%2f00365%2f014&highlights=%22dublin%201880%20may%20martha%22
I wonder if that was Martha jr.
CC
CC
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Hi CC.
I think you might have two little Susan May's there.
One born 1873 and the other in 1878.
The one with the birth date of Sept 1873 seems to have died Q2 1878 aged 6.
(Dublin South - Vol 2 Pg 899 ) ?
So the Q4 1878 Susan is possibly the next child born to Martha and Richard, rather than a really, really late registration.
Seems weird now, but they would often 'reuse' a name, when a child had died.
Not an expert on this but there was a charge for registration in the first place and a late registration would incur a fine. I have it in my notes somewhere, I'll have a look or perhaps someone has it off the top of their head ?
Do let us know if you get any new info from the certs you have ordered :)
Pity no sign of Margaret's birth yet :(
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Hi CC.
I think you might have two little Susan May's there.
One born 1873 and the other in 1878.
The one with the birth date of Sept 1873 seems to have died Q2 1878 aged 6.
(Dublin South - Vol 2 Pg 899 ) ?
So the Q4 1878 Susan is possibly the next child born to Martha and Richard, rather than a really, really late registration.
Seems weird now, but they would often 'reuse' a name, when a child had died.
Not an expert on this but there was a charge for registration in the first place and a late registration would incur a fine. I have it in my notes somewhere, I'll have a look or perhaps someone has it off the top of their head ?
Do let us know if you get any new info from the certs you have ordered :)
Pity no sign of Margaret's birth yet :(
[/quote
Hi Hasta, I got the attached records back from the GRO.
I don't think they tell me anything other then Eliza was probably Richard & Martha's child even though they have the mother as Margaret.
If you look at Susan's record the name doesn't look like Susan and the occupation doesn't look like Locksmith or laborer as in the other certs.
Sorry the certs don't seem to have attached. I'll have to try something else. Will get back to you.
CC
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Hi Hasta
Many thanks for info re irishgenealogy, I use it a lot and found it unsatisfactory often with items not listed. Now I can check the other site also.
Cam
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Hi Hasta,
This is just a test to see If I can get this birth cert to attach...CC
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Hi Hasta I guess I have to do them one at a time.
So these are the records I got back from the GRO. I don't know that they really help any other then on Eliza's where it says the mothers name is Margaret but the fathers occ. is a locksmith like the other births.
Also on susans record the s looks like an L and the occ. looks like an L.
Can't get the others to load. I'll try and PM them.
CC
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Occupation on birth certificate is 'Smith.'
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Occupation on birth certificate is 'Smith.'
Ta Very Much A, that would be right two of the others have him as a Locksmith. I was just making sure that it wasn't some other occ. that I was not familiar with as it did look like an L to me.
Can you tell me why I could only post the one record.
When I go to attach the next one it tells me that it is already attached..... :-\
I can copy but not paste. :-\ :-\
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You possibly need to change the name of the attachment but you are only allowed to post a small portion for deciphering purposes.
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You possibly need to change the name of the attachment but you are only allowed to post a small portion for deciphering purposes.
Ok A, thank you. Regards C
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Hello, Christina Griffin is my Grt-Grt Grandmother. I have some info on her if you need it. She is daughter of David Griffin & Mary Miller of Skinner's Alley. Parent's of David Griffin are David & Eliza Griffin. Martha Griffin is a witness on David and Mary's Marriage Cert. I have the original cert and the addresses differ from the Irish Geneology Page.
Here is what I have: (transcribing from left to Right)
5th February 1865 David Giffrin Full Age Bachelor Labourer 8 Kennedy's Lane Father: David Griffin Occupation (looks like) Lath Splitter (very hard to read.)
Mary Miller Full age Sprinster Servant 22 Brabazon St Father: Andrew Miller Occ: Block Lot Maker (Illegible).
Get in touch if you want to compare notes.
Maria
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much clearer here
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633629#page/148/mode/1up