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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Avance0306 on Thursday 12 September 13 16:36 BST (UK)
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Hello!
I have been trying to get my tree to branch out further and keep running into brick walls that I can't seem to get around.
One of the many Scottish walls:
John Muir - B. abt 1725 Lanarkshire
D. Unknown
He married a Janet - Birth record for his daughter, Janet, says Janet Mure - however, I've not found a Mure anywhere.
Daughter Janet Muir B. 1745 in Carnwath, Lanarkshire
Daughter Agnes Muir B. 1746 in Carnwath, Lanarkshire
I've looked through Scotland's People, as much as one can without spending an arm and a leg. I'm coming up with nothing.
If anyone can help, it is greatly appreciated.
sara
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When and where did Janet and Agnes die?
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When and where did Janet and Agnes die?
Hi -
Thanks for replying.
I've not been able to find that information, unfortunately.
sara
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Without that information it is hard to verify that you are following the correct line.
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Getting back further than mid 1700s in Scotland is tricky, as so many people just weren't recorded and for those that were there's a lack of detail. You also need to flexible with names as spelling wasn't standardised back then so it depended on how the parish clerk chose to write someone's name. Muir and Mure will just be spelling variations of the same name.
When searching the OPRs it can be a good idea to look at the free site FamilySearch to narrow down the field before going onto ScotlandsPeople. A quick look on FamilySearch show the following that could be for your Muir family.
Margaret Muir born and baptised April 1750 at Carnwath, parents John Muir and Janet Muir
Mary Muir born and baptised March 1753 at Carnwath, parents John Muir and Janet Muir
John Muir born and baptised March 1755 at Carnwath, parents John Muir and Janet Muir
But, oddly, I couldn't find the baptisms for Janet 1745 and Agnes 1746 on FamilySearch. And there's no marriage for a John Muir to a Janet at about the right time.
There's a John Muir born November 1714 at Carnwath, parents John Muir and Agnes Somervell. Given that your John Muir called his second daughter Agnes and possibly his eldest son John, this tallies with use of the Scottish naming pattern. But that isn't enough to say with certainly that 1714 John is your John.
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Sara, how far back have you verified with documents?
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Sara, how far back have you verified with documents?
Hi,
Thank you for replying.
I have collected birth, marriage and death records from Scotland's People for the majority of my Scottish ancestors. I have the birth record for Janet Muir - I can retrieve it from my ancestry tree, if needed.
I figured that Mure was another spelling version as it sounds more phonetic.
I will look at the persons suggested and see if they fit in.
While I realize that going further back is tricky, I still want to try :)
My grandmother, Helen Petrie, was born and raised in New Milns Ayrshire - she always said that we were related to Bruce and so on.. It'd be exciting to find that kind of link to Scotland. (I'm well aware of the improbability lol)
I have may more walls in Scotland that I'm going to be posting about..
Thanks ya'll
Sara
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Hi Sara,
I also have an ancestor from Lanarkshire with the surname Muir. Sometimes the name is recorded as Mair.
Looby :)
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Hi Sara,
I also have an ancestor from Lanarkshire with the surname Muir. Sometimes the name is recorded as Mair.
Looby :)
Looby,
How interesting! I wouldn't have thought of that variation since it doesn't sound near Muir.. I'll have to remember that when I get to looking!
Sara
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Hi Sara,
I also have an ancestor from Lanarkshire with the surname Muir. Sometimes the name is recorded as Mair.
Looby :)
Looby,
How interesting! I wouldn't have thought of that variation since it doesn't sound near Muir.. I'll have to remember that when I get to looking!
Sara
I think with the Scottish accents at that time the two names Muir and Mair could be confused. It depended on the accent of who pronounced them and how the literate person who wrote the name down perceived it. My ancestor and her family could not write, everything they signed was with a cross - X ;D. I had a similar situation when researching my McLean branch of my tree - in that case McLung was the variant :)
Looby :)
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Hi Sara
Muir, Mure, Moor and Moore are common names in Scotland. I assume you are following a child of Janet Muir but if you don't have Janet's death certificate then you can't confirm her parents names and John may not actually be her father's name.
Which child of Janet's are you descended from and who did Janet marry?
You may get a clue about her parents through the naming tradition
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Hi Sara,
I also have an ancestor from Lanarkshire with the surname Muir. Sometimes the name is recorded as Mair.
Looby :)
Looby,
How interesting! I wouldn't have thought of that variation since it doesn't sound near Muir.. I'll have to remember that when I get to looking!
Sara
I think with the Scottish accents at that time the two names Muir and Mair could be confused. It depended on the accent of who pronounced them and how the literate person who wrote the name down perceived it. My ancestor and her family could not write, everything they signed was with a cross - X ;D. I had a similar situation when researching my McLean branch of my tree - in that case McLung was the variant :)
Looby :)
Interestingly enough - I have a John McLean born abt 1800(?) dundonald Ayrshire who married Margaret pettigrew in 1818 (have the marriage record); I've not found the birth or death record for him though...
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Hi Sara
Muir, Mure, Moor and Moore are common names in Scotland. I assume you are following a child of Janet Muir but if you don't have Janet's death certificate then you can't confirm her parents names and John may not actually be her father's name.
Which child of Janet's are you descended from and who did Janet marry?
You may get a clue about her parents through the naming tradition
Sancti,
I have the birth record for Janet Muir b 1745 to John Muir and Janet Mure; she married Richard Wallace - I've not found the marriage record for them but I have their son's birth record. Richard Wallace b 1772 in Carnwath.
Richard Wallace married Janet McKay and I have their marriage record.
Like I mentioned previously.. I've got a few walls to knock holes in.
Sara
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If Richard Wallace died after 1855 his death record will confirm his parents names as Richard Wallace and Janet Muir.
Unfortunately there is nothing to confirm that the baptism record you found for Janet Muir is the correct one.
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Muir/Mair, both very old names. Black, in his surnames, gives a different origin for each.
Skoosh.
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Still not getting anywhere with John Muir.
I've done my best to travel backwards and to put pieces where they go and I still can't find anything on John Muir, Janet "Mure", their daughter Janet Muir and her husband Richard Wallace.
It is getting frustrating.
I have the birth record for Janet Muir that states her father was John Muir, her mother was Janet "Mure". Record states birth in Carnwath, Lanarkshire in 1745.
Based off that, I've guesstimated the parents birth years as 1725. I have not found anything yet that seems feasible for either of the parents.
I have the birth record for Richard Wallace, son of the above Janet Muir and Richard Wallace. Record states parents as Richard Wallace and Janet Muir 1772 Carnwath, Lanarkshire.
I've not found a marriage record for Janet Muir and Richard Wallace.
I've not found a birth record for Richard Wallace.
I have the marriage record for the son Richard Wallace and Janet McKay (macky). Record states married 1797 Carstairs, Lanarkshire.
I have the birth, marriage and death record of their child, Mary Wallace.
So you see, I have followed what the records are giving me. ??? ??? ??? ??? :'(
I don't have enough credits to ScotlandsPeople to keep guessing and I'm getting frustrated, to say the least.
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Sara, you don't have anything to confirm that you are following the correct parents for Janet Muir.
Mary Wallace's death record will give her parents as Richard Wallace and Janet McKay
Do you have Richard Wallace's death record?
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Sara, you don't have anything to confirm that you are following the correct parents for Janet Muir.
Mary Wallace's death record will give her parents as Richard Wallace and Janet McKay
Do you have Richard Wallace's death record?
Richard Wallace's death record:
Died 17 Jun 1859 Carstairs; Richard Wallace (Farmer) deceased; Janet Wallace, maiden name Muir, Deceased. Informant was his son Richard Wallace.
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Do you have the names of Richard and Janet's children in birth order?
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Do you have the names of Richard and Janet's children in birth order?
Which Richard?
Richard that married Janet McKay(Macky) had 3 children.
Richard that married Janet Muir had 2 that I could find. Other folks show 3 but I've not been able to prove one of them so I don't count it as probable.
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Richard and Janet Muir
There is only 1 record of a headstone in Carstairs churchyard containing the name Wallace
Gavin Wallace but no date given
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Richard and Janet Muir
There is only 1 record of a headstone in Carstairs churchyard containing the name Wallace
Gavin Wallace but no date given
I have been able to find Richard Wallace and William Wallace as children to Richard and Janet. Other distant relatives have noted a Robert Wallace as the 3rd child but I've not been able to find documentation to prove it. I've not seen any Gavin on any of the records I've seen/found.
How interesting!
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Robert Walace
Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
birth: 22 January 1767
christening: 30 January 1767 , CARNWATH, LANARK, SCOTLAND
residence: 1767 Carnwath, Lanarkshire, Scotland
father:Richard Walace
mother:Janet Mure
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTLD-KHF
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Robert Walace
Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
birth: 22 January 1767
christening: 30 January 1767 , CARNWATH, LANARK, SCOTLAND
residence: 1767 Carnwath, Lanarkshire, Scotland
father:Richard Walace
mother:Janet Mure
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTLD-KHF
Ok - So why does it not show up in ScotlandsPeople?
I will try again.. I've had no luck with finding anything in FamilySearch.org.. I guess that I'm not patient enough.
Thank you for your help. I'm sorry that it seem's that I'm clueless on some parts.
Exasparated!
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https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTL6-33T
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTLX-H48
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTLT-YLG
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTLY-MZQ
ADDED
Robert is recorded as WALACE
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https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTL6-33T
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTLX-H48
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTLT-YLG
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTLY-MZQ
ADDED
Robert is recorded as WALACE
Thank you again!
Now if I could just get the Muir's down. I still have Morton's, Douglas', Petrie's, Armstrong's and Craig's to weed out/through.
I appreciate everything!
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There are 2 John Muir's in Lanarkshire that could possibly be the guy I'm looking for but since the records this far back don't give details, I'm very hesitant to say either is right.
Oh well.... On to another branch on Scotland to shake.