RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: lydd on Monday 09 September 13 19:41 BST (UK)
-
Can someone please look up a birth for me?
Mary Ann Carroll, parents Owen Carroll & Margaret Carr. 1881 census at 26 Foundry Lane, Dundee has her birth to be around 1877 & born in Dundee. Parents are down as both born in Glasgow, Lanark.
I've looked on SP, used all my credits and still can't find her or a marriage cert for parents ???
Please & thank you! ;D
-
SP is showing one match to that profile between 1876-1878
Mary Carroll - Angus - 1876-1878
-
Thanks Carole, I had tried that one but the parents are listed as Thomas & Eliza Carroll.
-
Why not just put the birth aside for the moment and look for the parents' marriage? I see that there was a son Francis, aged 18, and sons James, 12, and Edward, 10, the last two born in Dundee. If you get one of their birth certificates it should tell you the date and place of their parents' marriage.
-
Can't help at the moment with your original question but you should look into the numerous mentions of both Owen Carroll and Margaret Carr or Carroll amongst the Tayside section on britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk ... a complicated family perhaps.
Also search under 'Mary Carroll' ... September 1887 ... I think this is your 11 year old Mary Ann? brought before the Court under the Industrial Schools act?
-
The 1881 shows spelling as Carrol so I checked SP and there is a birth in Angus for a Mary Carrol in 1876
-
Why not just put the birth aside for the moment and look for the parents' marriage? I see that there was a son Francis, aged 18, and sons James, 12, and Edward, 10, the last two born in Dundee. If you get one of their birth certificates it should tell you the date and place of their parents' marriage.
I tried the other children but nothing, I can't find these births either? I found two James Carrolls but not the correct parents?!
-
Have you seen my reply above
-
The 1881 shows spelling as Carrol so I checked SP and there is a birth in Angus for a Mary Carrol in 1876
Thanks for that, have just done this one. The mother is Ann Carroll & no father? I'm lost!
-
Can't help at the moment with your original question but you should look into the numerous mentions of both Owen Carroll and Margaret Carr or Carroll amongst the Tayside section on britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk ... a complicated family perhaps.
Also search under 'Mary Carroll' ... September 1887 ... I think this is your 11 year old Mary Ann? brought before the Court under the Industrial Schools act?
this is interesting! is there a link you can send please
-
It's http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
Let us know what you find!
-
It's http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
Let us know what you find!
my god!!!! so far I've found 11 different articles just on the mother's Margaret Carr Carroll's crimes! It seems from the bits I've read so far she was a violent drunk & constantly being sentenced to prison! Quite a shocking one about Mary Ann hanging from a rooftop to escape her mother!
-
The 1881 shows spelling as Carrol so I checked SP and there is a birth in Angus for a Mary Carrol in 1876
Thanks for that, have just done this one. The mother is Ann Carroll & no father? I'm lost!
I wonder if the census is wrong and Mary is actually an illegitimate grandchild rather than the daughter of Owen and Margaret?
-
Dundee Courier, 1 Oct 1887
Mary Ann Carroll, ten years of age, was brought before the Court as an applicant for the Industrial School. It was reported by Sergeant Gamble that the girl was the daughter of Owen Carroll, a riveter, who resided in Foundry Lane. She had been at school, and could read and write, but she was in the habit of running about the streets all day and staying out at night and telling lies. A few nights ago she was in the Curr Refuge, where she told a pitiable story about her mother being dead, and that she was homeless and destitute. Her father and mother were both alive, but were said to be drunken in their habits, and both had been frequently before the Police Court. They had other two children, and they lived in a one-roomed house, which was entirely destitute of furniture with a shake down for a bed. When working, Carroll earned £1 a week, but he had been idle for some time, and was presently out of town searching for work. The parents professed the Roman Catholic religion. The mother appeared in Court, and said she would like the girl sent to some school— the Dundee one if she could be admitted, as she had got the upper hand of her and her husband. She was sure her husband would be very glad if the girl was sent to some institution. The Bailie dismissed the application, remarking that in the absence of the girl's father he could not interfere in the case.
-
Is this 'your' Mary from the 1901 census? (Not looked at original, from transcription on A/try)
Princes St Dundee 'Mary A Wynne' born Perth, Perthshire 1878? Living with mother, Margaret Carroll aged 56 born Glasgow and son Owen Wynne aged 2?
If so wondered if you had looked into following census entry from 1891?
Glasgow Catholic Orphanages for Females
Mary Ann Carrol born 1878 Perth, Perthshire
Not been able to find Mary Ann on 1891 census in Dundee?
And ... wondering if you had any luck looking into the CPR records on SP?
-
Thanks Gali, yes that's her in 1901, I couldn't find her in 1891 in Dundee either so that one from the Catholic Orphanage looks like it's her & would tie in with the newspaper article above.
I'm wondering now from Forforian post could it be correct & she isn't their daughter?! my head is melting!!
-
Sorry if this is another waste of money idea (!) but I see there is one entry for a birth in the name of 'Mary Ann Carr' in Perth in 1876 ... might be worth checking?
Also see the following for more info on the orphanage:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=609519.0
-
my god It's her!!! thanks so much for that Gali.
Mary Ann Carr born 7 Oct 1876, illegitimate, mother Margaret Carr, Prisoner!! She was born in the General Prison Perth
-
Pleased for you that you've found the info you were looking for but it's certainly very sad.
The first mention of 'Margaret Carr or Carroll' on the British newspaper website was in July 1875 (and the last in 1902) so she was definitely associated with Owen Carroll before she went into prison ... (looks as if that was in May 1876 ... for stealing a shawl) ahead of Mary Ann Carr/Carroll's birth.
-
extremely sad..I downloaded about 20 of the articles last night, most of them were of Margaret. She seems a very violent drunk, some of the incidents especially where the children are involved are awful.
There was a later one in 1915 where Mary Ann had who had been convicted on cruelty to her children had broke her probation bond & sentenced to 4 months in prison. I certainly didn't expect to find anything like this, it's shocking.