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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Fiona power on Sunday 08 September 13 22:33 BST (UK)
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Trying to find birth record of Jean (Jane-Jeanie) McLean. Born 1872 in New York. Parents John McLean (1844) and Elizabeth (Eliza) Burnside (1847). Both parents from Scotland and in the 1881 Census the family is back in Scotland. Also looking for any marriage record for John and Eliza and travell records.
Trying to work out why they went to America and how they could afford to.
Thanks Fiona
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Hi Fiona,
Where are the McLean family at the 1881 Census and where do her parents give as their place of birth please?
Looby :)
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The most likely port of arrival in America is New York- the passenger lists for Castle Garden (pre-Ellis Island) are online at www.castlegarden.org but unfortunately the early manifest give little detail (usually name, age, occupation, country of origin).
You might have more luck with census records and other information available at www.familysearch.org (site has been down over the weekend but just keep trying)
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1870 US census has a John McLean aged 28 b.Scotland occ:Blacksmith & wife Elizabeth aged 25 b.Scotland no children.
Living in Dunkirk Township NY state.
Not showing in 1880.
jim
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Don't know if this marriage is of interest to you https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F6H5-T9K -
13th June 1870 - Manhattan, New York John McLEAN to Elizabeth BURNSIDE
Grooms parents - Dan Mclean and Ellen Johnson
Brides parents - John Burnside and Jane Stoddart
Then back in Scotland 14th Apr 1874 a birth of a Daniel McLean to Parents John McLean and Eliza Burnside https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VQQH-GH6
Looby :)
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Thanks
John McLean was born Iverkeithney Fifeshire don't have his parents yet but 1851 UK Census has a John McLean aged 7 living in Govan Lanarkshire with Grandmother Janet Crawford.
Elizabeth Burnside or Eliza as she seemed to be called was born Lismahagow Lanarkshire, her parents were George Burnside and Grace Miller.
That would definitely be them in the 1870 US Census as the 1881 UK Census has them living in Glasgow. His occupation is Engine Smith and daughter Jean aged 9 was born New York State Dunkirk
Can't believe that another John McLean and Elizabeth Burnside got married 1870 in New York!
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So the marriage in New York is not the couple you are looking for?
I can't see a marriage in Scotland :-\
Also strange that the John McLean and Eliza Burnside have a son in Springburn, Lanarkshire in 1874 which they call Daniel ( The New York John's father is recorded as Dan!)
Looby :)
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No not them can't find mention of any Daniel in the family.
Can't find any other marriage record or the birth record for Jean.
Wondering if she was perhaps already pregnant when they married and they went away for her to have the baby
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Fiona, I have found a John McLean on the 1851 Census at Inverkeithing in Fife aged 8 living with his parents Daniel and Helen McLean plus siblings.
Looby :)
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Have you looked at www.freecen.org.uk.
Check the 1851 Census - Daniel McLean aged 39 Census County Fife
Looby :)
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Sounds like him in the census but not in the New York marriage, something strange here
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I think your John McLean and Eliza Burnside did marry in New York.
I think the boy in Inverkeithing is that John. There is no marriage on Scotlands People website for the couple.
Are you sure you have the correct details for Eliza Burnside? :-\ There was a Elizabeth Penney Burnside born Barony, Lanarkshire to a John Burnside and a Jane Stoddart on the 7th Apr 1845 -
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X19R-S2G
She has the details of the New York bride.
Also I think that the baby Daniel born 1874 at Springburn to the McLeans died that same year :'(
Looby :)
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Thanks Looby
I will check my details again, I think you might be on the right track which is such a shame as I was loving my Elizabeth Burnside and her family history.😞
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I'm sure Elizabeth Burnside mark 2 will have a great family history too!
Also looks like the couple followed the traditional Scottish naming pattern - first daughter after the mother's mother (Jane/Jean/Jeanie) and first son after the father's father (Daniel).
Interesting that they have married in USA. Perhaps they met there or on the way over :)
Wonder why they came back to Scotland??
Good luck with your research,
Looby :)
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Thanks again Looby, no doubt I'll be on here again asking for help sooner rather than later. Cheers
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Can find just 2 children to John & Jane the other being John McMorland Burnside in 1839 Barony.
John & Jane married 1838.Can't see them on the UK census so may have emigrated 1845-51.
jim
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There is a Burnside family on the 1851- they are in Anderston, Barony Lanarkshire. I wonder if they are the Burnside family Fiona is looking for :-\. Daughter Elizabeth is 6 and her birthplace is registered as Renfrewshire Greenock. Worth checking out on FreeCen , Fiona!
Looby :)
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Thanks so much for everyone's help.
I know as my daughter says I am a computer Muppet but I still have so much trouble finding the records that you tell me about.
Sometimes Ancestry has them, sometimes Scotland's People and even when I go to the direct site I can't match the records. What am I doing wrong?
Sorry but frustrated 😱
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Hi from one Muppet to another ;D. Only joking Fiona!
Which of the records are you struggling to find and I'll see if I can help.
My last find was on (removed wrong web address) Just click on the link- choose 1851 Census from dropbox - key in Burnside under surname and Eliza under forename age 5 then plus or minus 5 years. Then submit search. That will give you a few options to look at.
Let me know if there are any others I can help you find,
Looby :)
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I really am a Muppet I gave you the wrong web address - www.freecen.org.uk ;D ;D
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Hi
A bit confused 1870 US Census has John and Elisabeth in Dunkirk, New York.
The census was taken on 1st June and the marriage we were looking at was on the 13 June 1870.
There was also an Elizabeth Burnside arrived by ship 9 June 1970
Have found lots on Daniel and Helen McLean but can't find anything on Jane Stoddart
Help!
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Hi Fiona,
Have you looked at the original record of John and Elizabeth McLean on the US 1870 Census on Familysearch?
At the very top of the page it reads Inhabitants of the Town Of Dunkirk in the County of Chautauqua, state of New York enumerated by me on the 14th day of August 1870 signed Charles Koch?? asst. Marshall
That appears to suggest that the census was taken later than the 1st June :)
I saw the arrival of an Elizabeth Burnside on 9th June 1870 at Castle Gardens too. Unfortunately there is not enough info to know if this is your Elizabeth. But it could be that John McLean and Elizabeth were "engaged" to be married in Scotland, John went on ahead to US to find work and a home and when they could afford it Elizabeth followed and the couple married quickly after her arrival. We cannot know if this was the case , but incidents like this happened.
Did you find Elizabeth and her family on the 1851 Scottish Census? It lookks to me like Jane Stoddart was dead by then :(. I will have another look.
Looby :)
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Thanks Looby, love getting your info.
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Thanks Fiona :)
I think I've found the Burnsides getting married -Jean Stoddart to John Burnside 2 Sept 1838 at Glasgow, Lanark.
Their first child as Jim1 has already posted was John McMorland Burnside on 7 June 1839.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X171-QY1
The family appear to be at Greenock, Renfrewshire living at Cartsburn Street by the 1841 Census-
John Burnside - aged 25 Blacksmith Jrnymn Born outside Census county
Jane Burnside - age 25 Born outside Census county
John Burnside - age 2 Born outside Census County
Eliza Penney Burnside is born to the couple 7th Apr 1845 at Barony Lanarkshire
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X19R-S25
Knowing the Scottish naming traditions there is a possible chance that Eliza/Elizabeth's maternal grandmother's maiden name was Eliza/Elizabeth Penney and that the paternal Grandmother could have been McMorland :-\. Then again the middle names could have come from someone else family/friend/minister. But it could be a clue to tracing back further.
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I have a possible family for 1851 Census which would indicate that Jane/Jean Stoddart is dead.
86 Clyde Street, Anderston, Barony Lanarkshire
Neill Munro head age 21 M Grocer Born England
Amelia Munro wife age 20 U Grocer's wife Born England
Elizabeth Munro Dau age 1 U " "
John Burnside Visitor age 35 W Agricultural Labourer Born Renfrewshire, Kilpatrick
John Burnside Visitor age 11 U Scholar Lab's son Born Glasgow , Lanarkshire
Elizabeth Burnside Visitor age 6 U Scholar Lab' Dau Born Renfrewshire, Greenock
Ann Mathieson Visitor age 35 M General Servant Born Courthill, Ross & Cromarty
These look like good candidates for the family.
If Jane/Jean Stoddart has died between Elizabeth's birth and 1851 Census, it is unlikely that you will find a register of her death. :(
Looby :)
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You have been busy thanks again😊
Will check it all out when I get a chance later this weekend.
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Where did you find the marriage of John Burnside and Jean/Jane Stoddart?
Can't find it on Ancestry or Scotland's People
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Where did you find the marriage of John Burnside and Jean/Jane Stoddart?
Can't find it on Ancestry or Scotland's People
Found it on Familysearch - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTBZ-3YP
But I also found a match on Scotlands People ???
I searched for a pre 1855 Marriage /banns in the name of John Burnside spouse's name Stoddart (Jane's name seems to evolve later to Stoddard) during the year 1838. The marriage took place Glasgow City in the parish of Glasgow. I did not view the image as I presently have no credits.
Did you search the correct register on SP, Fiona? The Pre-1855? And did you put the surname in first then forename - I know I get muddled sometimes and get the names the wrong way round!!
Looby :)
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Hi everyone
This is my family !
The John McLean in original post is my great grandfather who had a brief sojourn in NY. Eliza Burnside was my great grandmother. I have some knowledge of both ascendants and descendants but not comprehensive.
Iain
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Hi Iain and welcome to Rootschat :D
Fiona should receive an email alert that someone has posted on her thread (like I did) and will hopefully reply. You may be able to help with each others research.
Looby :)
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Related Post
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=649680.msg6298690
Annie
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Hi Iain
John McLean and Elizabeth Burnside are my great great grandparents, their son John Married to Agnus Munn my Great Grandparents. Which family member are you related to. Look forward to sharing our knowledge of the family and maybe fill in a few blanks for each other
Cheers Fiona
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Well then Fiona we are definitely related and part of the same McLean family !
My father is James McLean b1931 died 1990 and his father was also James 1885 - 1946 who was the son of John & Eliza and younger brother of John ( born 1876 ) who is your great grandfather. We pretty much know about the various siblings of James & John apart from John and his descendants. So if you haven't had connection with this side of your family you have now - exciting !
So your great grandfather was my dad's uncle and his children were / are my dad's first cousins. He was close with other cousins. My mum 81 yo is still alive, fighting fit and knew the family apart from John.
That makes us cousins - I think you are a generation below me. There are a variety of other cousins dotted about Scotland & England with my sister in NZ.
For some reason your John became distant from the rest of the family and I was intending to do some research.
I hope this is good news for you !?
Where are you living - are you in Scotland / U.K. / somewhere else ?
I have also got research behind John & Eliza taking us back to Fife / Aberdour & Inverkeithing
Look forward to chatting further
Iain
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I have a access to marriage photo of John & Eliza in NY and a full family photo of the McLeans i.e. your John & siblings & offspring
Jeanie was known by my dad as Aunt Ninie married a chap called Duff and had one son Bill Duff who moved to Belfast and had two children who are now in their 60s.
My Aunt Morag ( also deceased ) had some contact with her cousin (s) - your grandmother (? ) at Woodend Tennis Club in Glasgow
Iain