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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Craigellachie2019 on Monday 02 September 13 07:50 BST (UK)
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I am trying to track the movements of my Great Grandfather August Bartels - born in Germany in the 1860's - a merchant seaman - and have been given information of an 'August Bartels' who was on the schooner Mary Agatha which founded and the crew were picked up by the Ship Rangitikei. This was reported in the Hawkes Bay Poverty Bay Newspaper May 23 1883. It is said only the captain who was married, was going to try to return home - the other men deciding to try their luck in New Zealand. If this particular August Bartels is my Great Grandfather, he married in Cooktown, Queensland in 1895. I have had no luck in trying to find him on a ship coming from New Zealand to Australia and wondered if there is any other information I haen't been able to access so far here in Australia. I haven't been able to track down any information on the Mary Agatha either to see where it came from before foundering - nor a crew list.
Thank you
Anne
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Hi Anne,
The inquiry into the loss of the Mary Agatha was reported in the Manawatu Standard, which gave his name as Augustus BARTELS.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0vz4/
The Daily Telegraph of 18 May 1883 (and other newspapers) reported the voyage of the Mary Agatha, her cargo and route.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0vz6/
Spades
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There is this interesting possibility...
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=89484407
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It looks like there might be several namesakes out there.
Can you tell us anything else about your August BARTELS: do you know where and when he died, names of any children, his parents, his later life, etc?
Edit: See this topic:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=658943.0
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Thank you for those articles. It gives me a bit more information. My August or Augustus married in Cooktown, had numerous children and died in Brisbane, Queensland Australia. Details on his marriage say his father was Charles Bartels and his mother Miyarna Pralow and that he was born in Rostock Germany. His death age and marriage age differ so all I can gather is he was born sometime in the 1860's - but haven't found a birth, nor records of his parents. As I haven't been able to get any further in that regard, I thought if I could track down this particular Augustus' voyage, I may find a starting point if it is actually him.
Anne
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May I butt in please...
On his QLD death cert ... What answer is given for :How Long in the Colonies/states ... and
Have you looked for any Naturalisation papers as these name the arrival ship as well as date and place of birth .. and these are in his own hand ...
Fingers crossed...
Cheers JM
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Hi, I haven't got his death certificate. I didn't realise that sort of information may be on it. He died away from his family so I am not sure any information on his death certificate would be correct.
Family stories were that he had 'jumped ship' so I hadn't looked for naturalisation papers as I didn't think he would have applied. Another story was also that he hid out during WW1 so that he wasn't interred.
Knowing he married in Cooktown in 1895 and was born sometime in the 1860's, I have searched passenger and immigration records and found nothing.
Anne
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Hello...
I don't know if this relevant but it mentions Pralow, Burtels and Rostock. Going by the age it may be Augustus' mother. Or not.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MVY6-2WP (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MVY6-2WP)
If you read line 1 it might be translated as "? Burtels formerly Pralow". Maybe not.
Regards
Beg
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If you have found him on any electoral roll then he had been naturalised .... and yes QLD certs are quite informative ... And if the informant knew then HOW LONG is a handy question ...
If not on an electoral roll it was not always compulsory to enrol ...
Cheers JM
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Thank you for the 1900 census information Beg. I will see if that takes me somewhere.
And thank you JM, I didn't realise if he was on an electoral roll he had been naturalised. I think I did find him on a couple, so I will take that further too.
Thank you all
Anne
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Yes ... Until 1970s Electoral Rolls in Australia are for British Subjects aged 21 and over... Then lowered to 18/over from 1973/4 ... and of course Aust citizens from 1949 and new enrollments from 1986 available only for Au citizens aged 18/over
Cheers JM
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http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/Researchers/CollectionsDownloads/Documents/BG15Naturalisations.pdf
Fingers crossed
Cheers, JM
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Details on his marriage say his father was Charles Bartels and his mother Miyarna Pralow
Hello...
It may be wishful thinking on my part but here's a possible listing for August and his family.
Germany, Mecklenburg-Schwerin Census 1867 - Malchow: 5157 (S.A. MALCHOW)
Image 175 of 205 (Right-hand page only)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18101-114012-19 (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18101-114012-19)
Image 176 of 205
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18101-113660-97 (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18101-113660-97)
Image 177 of 205 (Left-hand page only)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18101-112193-39 (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18101-112193-39)
No proof at all but...
1) Carl anglicised might be Charles
2) Mariane, if pronounced Ma-ri-ah-na, might be Miyarna
3) The census district is Malchow. This is the birthplace of "Frau Bartels formely Pralow", mentioned in my earlier 1900 census post.
4) The August BARTELS from the 1867 census has two older sisters called Mathilde and Auguste. Also one older brother called Ludwig. Forty years later your August BARTELS living in Queensland has two daughters called Mathilda and Augusta. Also one son called August Ludwig.
Might be worth looking for an 1855-ish BARTELS to PRALOW marriage in Malchow.
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CLIP has indexed an August BARTELS. It's fairly expensive but it might be worth going the Maritime History Archive route.
BARTELS - CLIP
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0vzm/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/0vzm/)
Maritime History Archive
http://www.mun.ca/mha/ (http://www.mun.ca/mha/)
Regards
Beg
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Hi Beg, thank you for all your detective work. The 1867 census definitely looks promising. You are right with the Mathilde and Ludwig. I would think that too. I will try to get to the National Archives to look up the Naturalisation records.
Anne
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Hi again...
Have joined the "Forum zur Ahnenforschung" website (German equivalent to Rootschat) and have asked for advice regarding the census entries.
Fingers crossed (or "thumbs pressed" as the Germans apparently say :-)
http://forum.genealogy.net/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=59369 (http://forum.genealogy.net/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=59369)
Regards
Beg
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Anne,
A 20 yr old August Bartels appears as an AB on the crew list of the Abbey Cowper out of Liverpool for the period 17 Jan 1880 to 24 Nov 1880. His previous vessel is listed as "Pagte Manfe?"
Alan
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Hi again...
Totally appreciate that none of the following will help answer your original question, namely tracing the movements of August BARTELS, but for the record here's a summary of the thread I started over on the German equivalent of Rootschat.
Facts first. Guesswork to follow.
1) Both the 1894 and 1896 "Official Directory" of people living in Rostock list a C BARTELS, factory worker (fabrikarbeiter), and his wife Marianna née (geb.) PRALOW. They moved there in 1873.
1896 Official Directory (Officielles Verzeichnis)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0w1p/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/0w1p/)
2) Both the 1900 and 1902 "Directory of Residents" list the widow (Wwe) of C BARTELS, Blacksmith (Schmiede) living at 51 Feldstrasse. This is the same address as given in the 1900 census by Frau Anna BARTELS geb PRALOW.
1900 Directory of Residents (Einwohnerverzeichnis)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0w1n/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/0w1n/)
1900 Census (Haushaltungslisten) - Image 588 of 891
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11757-67603-43 (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11757-67603-43)
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Guesswork...
- From 1877 onwards several of the annual "Directory of Residents" for Rostock list a Carl BARTELS, assistant blacksmith (schmiedegeselle) living at various addresses on Feldstrasse. Perhaps this is Carl and Anna/Marianna.
- Possibly "factory worker" (fabrikarbeiter) could also be translated as a "foundry worker".
- Carl last appears in the 1896 Directory. In 1900 Marianna is listed as a widow. So presumably Carl's death is between 1896 and 1900.
- In 1908 and 1910 the "Directory of Residents" list the widow "M BARTELS geb PRALOW" and "Marie BARTELS geb PRALOW" living at 15 Kasernenstrasse and 72 Kasernenstrasse respectively.
The 1912 Directory lists a widow by the name of "Mirjahne BARTELS" living at 28 Borwinstrasse. Annoyingly there is no "geb PRALOW". As a widow she seems to have changed address several times so I'm guessing that this Mirjahne is another name for Anna/Marianna/Marie.
1912 Directory of Residents (Einwohnerverzeichnis)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0w1w/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/0w1w/)
- There is no listing for a widow BARTELS in the 1914 Directory so Anna/Marianna/Marie/Mirjahne may have died, probably between 1912 and 1914.
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You can purchase a copy of the record of death for Carl and Marianna from the Rostock City Archives. These records have the potential to be very informative depending, of course, on the informant's knowledge. Unfortunately as you don't know the exact date of death you'll be charged a research fee which will bump the bill up to 50-plus euro.
Having said that, it's free to wander into the City Archives and do your own research. I don't suppose you live anywhere near North-East Germany.
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It sort of feels as if this couple are your g-g-grandparents. No real way of knowing though until you start spending money.
Personally I would put the Rostock info on hold until you check out the BARTELS family from Malchow mentioned in the 1867 census. (See reply no.12 earlier in this thread.)
To do that it looks like you'll have to hire the Malchow microfilms through your local LDS Family History Centre. Have you used a FHC before. Happy to advise if you want.
Kirchenbuch, 1698-1888
Evangelische Kirche Malchow
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/214075 (https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/214075)
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A big thank you to Zwobot for taking the time to help out on the German thread :)
Regards
Beg
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Hi Beg
Thank you very much for all the time you have put into this for me. I am very grateful for your help.
I am in Brisbane, Queensland Australia so it's not easy to pop over to Germany!
I have heard of the LDS FHC's and although googling shows there are some in Brisbane the information appears to be outdated and a few months ago when trying to go further on my Scottish side i had no luck finding their location here. I will try again today to see if I can find one and if they have the resources here to search records
Thanks again
Anne
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Hi again...
Was no problem to help. My first attempt to research in Germany so it was a learning experience.
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The following link seems to be the easiest way for a Brisbane-ite to view an LDS microfilm...
https://www.gsq.org.au/index.php/services/lds-films (https://www.gsq.org.au/index.php/services/lds-films)
Loaning the microfilm(s) is free but shipping it/them from Utah to Brisbane costs A$7.75 per microfilm. You can do the ordering from the microfilms link I gave in my previous reply. Film no.69335 for Carl and Marianna's wedding (heiraten) and film no.69336 for August's baptism (taufen).
Please remember that I've no proof at all that the marriage or birth(s) happened in Malchow. I'm just making an assumption because of the 1867 census. If the assumption is wrong you'll be the one out of pocket and none the wiser.
And another warning although you most likely already know. The parish registers won't be written using our Latin symbols (Aa Bb Cc etc) but something called the Germanic script, of which there are three versions. You'd do well to read up on it before you try deciphering the parish registers.
And assume the microfilm-viewer won't save images to a thumb drive so take a camera and a magnifying glass when you go to view the microfilm. Take photos of every page you can for later reference. And when someone is watching you take out the magnifying glass and pretend to inspect the register. It makes people think you know what you're doing (works for me) :)
All the best
Beg
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I love your sense of humour! Maybe I should get a pipe and a Sherlock hat while I'm at it.
I am off to the National Archives in Brisbane on Saturday for some details on August Barteks in Australia. At least their microfiche machines are hooked up to printers. Wish me luck!
Thanks again Beg. PS. Where in the world are you?
Thanks again
Anne
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Where in the world are you?
East coast of the North Island, NZ.
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Good luck at the Archives.
Half joking about the magnifying glass but I reckon it's a necessity when looking at those old parish registers. Some of the clergymen had shocking handwriting. Combined with the fact that the registers were microfilmed sixty-plus years ago and you need every bit of help you can get.
All the best
Beg
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Family stories were that he had 'jumped ship' so I hadn't looked for naturalisation papers as I didn't think he would have applied. Another story was also that he hid out during WW1 so that he wasn't interred.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/60076345 Townsville Daily 7 August 1915 August Bartels giving evidence for the Defendant, in a court case where the police case was about the defendant’s use of seditious language. Part of the report has the Police Prosecutor stating that August was born in Germany and that he was not working. Perhaps that is the origin of the family story that he hid out during WWI stems from the result of that case (the defendant was convicted).
Cheers, JM
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August Bartels is on this list too "Cooktown Hospital admission registers" http://www.judywebster.com.au/cooktown.html
"Note the provision for ship of arrival, place of residence, marital status, and father's present residence"
Seems to be about $20 plus postage (owch)
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Thank you Whiteout 7. Yes I had seen that and written to Judy Webster. He is apparently on the list twice. She said just because there is provision for the name of the ship etc, it may be that those details are actually not listed, so I am yet to send both fees off for 2 searches until I exhaust other avenues.
Anne
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August Bartels is on this list too "Cooktown Hospital admission registers" http://www.judywebster.com.au/cooktown.html
"Note the provision for ship of arrival, place of residence, marital status, and father's present residence"
Seems to be about $20 plus postage (owch)
I wonder if there's any RChatters who may be willing to look up the Qld State Archives for you. Afterall, the link includes " have indexed all surviving Cooktown Hospital admission registers from the earliest (1884) up to 25 Dec 1901. The registers (at Qld State Archives) have space for these details (which, if supplied by the patient, may be more accurate than those on a death certificate)"
I am not Qld centric, so I have no real understanding of what to expect or of how Qld Archives functions, but I do would expect that there's several Qld based RChatters who frequent those Qld Archives.
Have you considered making a separate post on the Aussie Board, asking for that type of look up?
Cheers, JM
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http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/About/Pages/ContactQSA.aspx
State Archives for Qld .... at Runcorn.
RChat Aussie Board : http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?board=165.0
Fingers crossed
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM. Thanks for your reply. I will try to get to the Qld State Archives. They are a fair way from me and they don't open of an evening and only one Saturday per month but will be worth a trip. Thanks again
Anne