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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Leanne. on Friday 30 August 13 11:11 BST (UK)

Title: It would be good if
Post by: Leanne. on Friday 30 August 13 11:11 BST (UK)
everyone had to use their birth name on all legal documents. Makes it hard when people use their middle names or names they were know as.
Recently I have discovered someone who used her partners last name on a census, they weren't married but were living together as husband and wife.
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: Jeuel on Friday 30 August 13 17:05 BST (UK)
I think it would be easier if everyone's certificates of anything had a full genealogy attached!  As for names - in my experience they get spelt a variety of ways, middle names are dropped - or invented!  The worst ones are where family members are known by a nickname which has nothing to do with their real name.  My grandmother, Annie Eliza, was called "Peachy" and one of her brothers, whose marriage I'm still looking for, called his wife "Doll" but her real name was Florence!
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: pinefamily on Friday 30 August 13 22:54 BST (UK)
Our ancestors wrote on the back of their photo's, and not just "Mother", or "Father", or first name only.
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: Mark1973 on Monday 02 September 13 13:33 BST (UK)
I think they knew it would make it too easy for us  ;D
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: joboy on Tuesday 03 September 13 02:02 BST (UK)
I think they knew it would make it too easy for us  ;D
Yeah .... right on ...... we would not have rootschat and life would be sooooo boring. :( :(
Joe
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: Stuart273 on Tuesday 03 September 13 17:16 BST (UK)
Every member of the family had an unusual, easily identifiable first name, such as Denmilne. Made tracing him so much easier  ;D
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: snooziflooze on Tuesday 03 September 13 17:20 BST (UK)
...there was a lot more information online.
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: Stuart273 on Tuesday 03 September 13 17:31 BST (UK)
scotlandspeople.com made images available right up to 2012.

There was an englandspeople.com, a walespeople.com and an irelandspeople.com which all operated the same way as scotlandspeople
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: Treetotal on Tuesday 03 September 13 17:53 BST (UK)
The Irish enumerators gave the county of birth instead of just "Ireland"  :-\
Carol
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: gingerbit on Tuesday 03 September 13 18:29 BST (UK)
I had listened to my Grandmother's stories more often.
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: Rishile on Thursday 05 September 13 12:22 BST (UK)
...I could concentrate on one ancestor at a time rather than keep being side-tracked

Rishile
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 05 September 13 17:46 BST (UK)
I'll second that  ;D
Carol
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: patty38 on Thursday 05 September 13 20:55 BST (UK)
My mother had put names on photos and I had listened a bit more carefully (but I was only about 9 years old). I have some lovely photo's but don't know exactly who they are.   :( :(
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: panda40 on Thursday 05 September 13 21:04 BST (UK)
If my dad had written more than Bill and Nellie on the back of the photo. He knew who they were but I can't make the names fit the tree ???
Regards panda
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: Stuart273 on Thursday 05 September 13 21:35 BST (UK)
All of the above  ;D
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 05 September 13 22:00 BST (UK)
My Nellie was hard to find as her name was actually Ellen  ;)
Carol
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: smiler007 on Thursday 05 September 13 22:27 BST (UK)
If we could go back to our childhood for a while and make notes to bring forward
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: genjan1953 on Thursday 05 September 13 22:40 BST (UK)
..... all record offices and the GRO would recognise the distinction between BMD certificates needed by family historians and those requested for other purposes.  I'm thinking that it would be good if they could just scan in the original entry and email it to us, or send a photocopy by post.  It would keep the costs down for them and us.  I just find it irritating to have to wait for a hand written/typed formal copy of the requested entry I don't really need and then pay £9.50 or so for it.  I have a feeling that if they did this and brought the price down a bit they would receive far more requests and generate more income for themselves in the process.
Janet  :)
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: pinefamily on Friday 06 September 13 07:54 BST (UK)
...I could concentrate on one ancestor at a time rather than keep being side-tracked

Rishile

And I thought that was just part of being a family history nut! Lol
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: pinefamily on Friday 06 September 13 07:55 BST (UK)
..... all record offices and the GRO would recognise the distinction between BMD certificates needed by family historians and those requested for other purposes.  I'm thinking that it would be good if they could just scan in the original entry and email it to us, or send a photocopy by post.  It would keep the costs down for them and us.  I just find it irritating to have to wait for a hand written/typed formal copy of the requested entry I don't really need and then pay £9.50 or so for it.  I have a feeling that if they did this and brought the price down a bit they would receive far more requests and generate more income for themselves in the process.
Janet  :)

And that would require common sense, something that public servants seem to have little of, in my own experience.
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: Graham47 on Friday 06 September 13 08:37 BST (UK)
Still happens I'm afraid. My stepfather lived with my mother for years before they were married yet he was always known and recorded by her previously married name. Screwed up quite a few documents as effectively my three half siblings all carried the wrong surname as did their children. Fortunately they all had daughters so no lasting 'damage' done. 

Here in Wales of course it is very common even today for men to use their middle name as their first, as for Jones the Dairy, and Jones the Post..... nightmare Butty boy bach!
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 06 September 13 08:51 BST (UK)
..... all record offices and the GRO would recognise the distinction between BMD certificates needed by family historians and those requested for other purposes.  I'm thinking that it would be good if they could just scan in the original entry and email it to us, or send a photocopy by post.  It would keep the costs down for them and us.  I just find it irritating to have to wait for a hand written/typed formal copy of the requested entry I don't really need and then pay £9.50 or so for it.  I have a feeling that if they did this and brought the price down a bit they would receive far more requests and generate more income for themselves in the process.
Janet  :)

And that would require common sense, something that public servants seem to have little of, in my own experience.

It would also require a change in the law! (in England/Wales) ::)
And, of course, it would take the nearly the same amount of labour - so how would it be cheaper, and still generate a profit?!
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: eadaoin on Friday 06 September 13 13:39 BST (UK)
..... all record offices and the GRO would recognise the distinction between BMD certificates needed by family historians and those requested for other purposes.  I'm thinking that it would be good if they could just scan in the original entry and email it to us, or send a photocopy by post.  It would keep the costs down for them and us.

In Ireland a photocopy of a BMD costs 4euro ...

It might generate income in England/Wales ... I'll happily take a chance on Irish photocopies at 4 euro, but I agonise very much about buying English ones - I know if they were cheaper, I'd  buy several "less important" ones

regards eadaoin
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: genjan1953 on Friday 06 September 13 14:12 BST (UK)
Quote
And, of course, it would take the nearly the same amount of labour - so how would it be cheaper, and still generate a profit?!

Yes, I see that the person would need to search for the record but scanning it and then emailing it would take a few minutes at most.  I would much rather see a copy of the actual entry rather than a typed or handwritten copy, surely that would save time? I know that some record offices do that now, but only some.  Also the formal certificate paper they use must be expensive so they wouldn't need that.  I think the biggest savings they could make would be by using email instead of snail mail - no need for an envelope or a paper copy or postage costs.  And finally, I'm no economist but it seems logical to me that if the price were reduced many more requests would be received = more income.  Countless people on Rootschat, including eadaoin here, have said that they would buy more certificates if the price was reduced - I certainly would.  Just my thoughts  :)
Janet
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 06 September 13 14:29 BST (UK)
It still requires an Act of Parliament, in order to change the current law, though! ::) ::)
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: IMBER on Friday 06 September 13 14:38 BST (UK)
Following the example of the Scottish GRO and putting records online would be a start, but I gather the proposal to do something similar in Engalnd and Wales has been shelved.

Imber
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: genjan1953 on Friday 06 September 13 21:59 BST (UK)
It still requires an Act of Parliament, in order to change the current law, though! ::) ::)

I'm curious to know what exactly English/Welsh law says on this subject.  I'll have to see if I can find some info online.  Laws can be changed if enough people lobby parliament and set out a convincing case.  How come Scotland and Ireland have managed to set up a more sensible system? Hmmm ::)
Janet     
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: pinefamily on Saturday 07 September 13 00:35 BST (UK)
I speak from Australia, so please be kind, but surely it wouldn't require an act of parliament to change a government department's system of doing things?
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 07 September 13 07:37 BST (UK)
Whenever asked questions, the GRO (and District Register Offices) always state what they are allowed, BY LAW, to do or not do! ::)

I can't find the relevant piece of legislation, but I know it exists!
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: joboy on Saturday 07 September 13 09:04 BST (UK)
Whenever asked questions, the GRO (and District Register Offices) always state what they are allowed, BY LAW, to do or not do! ::)

I can't find the relevant piece of legislation, but I know it exists!
I am interested in this and found the following which describes the Department as a 'Non Departmental Public Body' (NDPB)
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/ac_role.pdf
Joe
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: stanmapstone on Saturday 07 September 13 09:36 BST (UK)
Interestingly the  Act for registering Births, Deaths, and Marriages in England. [17 August 1836] 6 & 7 Will. IV. c.86 states that;
XXXV. And be it enacted, That every Rector, Vicar, or Curate, and every Registrar, Registering Officer, and Secretary, who shall have the keeping for the Time being of any Register Book of Births, Deaths, or Marriages, shall at all reasonable Times allow Searches to be made of any Register Book in his keeping, and shall give a Copy certified under his Hand of any Entry or Entries in the same, on Payment of the Fee herein-after mentioned; (that is to say,) for every Search extending over a Period not more than One Year the Sum of One Shilling, and Sixpence additional for every additional Year, and the Sum of Two Shillings and Sixpence for every single Certificate.

http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/View?path=Browse/Legislation%20%28by%20date%29&active=yes&mno=4044
However this section is not included in the 1874 Act, which only states that;
Section 32. The Registrar General shall supply to every superintendent registrar suitable forms wherein to make indexes of the register books in his office, and such superintendent registrar shall cause such indexes to be made and to be kept with the other records of his office.
All such indexes, whether made before or after the commencement of this Act, shall be kept by the superintendent registrar with the records of his office, and shall be delivered wuith the same to his successor in office, as directed bt the principal Act.
Every person shall be entitled at all reasonable hours to search the said indexes, and to have a certified copy of any entry or entries in the said register books under the hand of the superintendent registrar on payment in each case of the appointed fee.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1874/pdf/ukpga_18740088_en.pdf
 
Stan

Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 07 September 13 09:47 BST (UK)
Whenever asked questions, the GRO (and District Register Offices) always state what they are allowed, BY LAW, to do or not do! ::)

I can't find the relevant piece of legislation, but I know it exists!
I am interested in this and found the following which describes the Department as a 'Non Departmental Public Body' (NDPB)
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/ac_role.pdf
Joe


Joe, that document relates to The National Archives?
BMD certificates/Registers aren't held by TNA!
GRO (General Register Office) and district Register Offices, are part of Her Majesty's Passport Office  and oversees civil registration in England and Wales. It maintains the national archive of all births, marriages and deaths dating back to 1837
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: pinefamily on Saturday 07 September 13 16:04 BST (UK)
As interesting and topical as the discussion has become, we have drifted off topic. So, to put us back on track, here's another.
It would be good if.......
Some family history societies stopped being so small-minded and joined in larger projects like the National Burial Index as one example.
Title: Re: It would be good if
Post by: joboy on Sunday 08 September 13 08:17 BST (UK)

Joe, that document relates to The National Archives?
BMD certificates/Registers aren't held by TNA!
GRO (General Register Office) and district Register Offices, are part of Her Majesty's Passport Office  and oversees civil registration in England and Wales. It maintains the national archive of all births, marriages and deaths dating back to 1837
[/quote]
Of course you are quite correct KG ........ I must have been off on one of my meanderings again