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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: paulpesda on Thursday 29 August 13 19:15 BST (UK)
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My great great grandfather, Rowland Evans b1828 and his wife Mary, b1835 moved from Trawsfynydd, North Wales to Old Monkland, Lanarkshire after 1855. (they had a son Abraham, who was born in North Wales in 1855) They were definitely there by 1856, as Mary gave birth to her daughter, and in 1861, as they are noted on the census, despite being down as born in 'England' (for shame!) on that registry. He is noted as being a 'coal miner', which would make sense coming from North Wales, and most probably came up to look for work. Why Scotland, I'm not sure? They were living at Woodhall Square, Woodhall, Old Monkland, and I was wondering if these houses were still there, and what mine he might have worked at?
His son, daughter Annie Elizabeth was born in Old Monkland in September 1856, and son Rowland was born in Old Monkland in July 1859.
On his son's birth certificate, it mentions 'Woodhall' colliery, as their address, so was there a colliery named as so?
any help would be great,
thanks so much, diolch
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Hi
The only Woodhall Colliery I could find in Scotland was at Pencaitland
http://scottishmining.co.uk/439.html
Pencaitland is mentioned at the bottom of the page
Yours Aye
BruceL
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The area around Old Monkland had an awful lot of coal mines - it was one of the main mining regions in Scotland. A good web site for the history of Scottish coal mining is at http://www.scottishmining.co.uk which had lots about that area.
The name Woodhall Square sounds as if it was miners' housing, built and owned by the colliery company. If that's what the houses were, they'd be long gone.
There was a Woodhall mine near Coatbridge: see http://scottishmining.co.uk/401.html (scroll to the bottom of the page).
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thank you. this is all great help to me. how would they have known, in north Wales, about this mine? would the company have placed adverts in local papers for men, or do you think it might have been a family connection up there? I'm struggling to find one, I must admit.
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Up to the end of the 18th Century miners in Scotland were basically serfs of the mineowners and their children were born into the same - any miner who left his employer without consent could even be charged with theft of himself as he was the property of the land owner/mine owner. At the start of the 1800's this changed but miners were still often considered second class citizens and as the Industrial Boom took off the need for coal and Iron meant that more and more skilled miners were needed. As there was a distinct shortage of the necessary skills in Scotland there were several recruiting drives in mining areas in England and Wales to bring the men north - most were probably engaged through local agents and local advertising rather than newspapers. In the book "The Mineworkers - by Robert Duncan" he mentions that in the Coatbridge area in the 1830's and 40's there were many Welsh miners present so it is possible that in the 1850's some family members were already there.
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thank you. diolch yn fawr. I've ordered the book too.
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Woodhall Colliery No. 1,2 and 3 were next to Calderbank Old Monkland, south of Airdrie.
Waggon Filler Killed at Woodhall Colliery - On Saturday a man named Alexander Barclay, about 65 years of ago, employed as a waggon filler at Woodhall Colliery (Barr & Higgins , Ltd.), Calderbank, lost his life on a line of railway at the colliery. He had been underneath a stationary waggon clearing out some dross that had fallen between the rails when several other waggons were shunted up against the stationary one, and in an attempt to got clear Barclay was run over and instantaneously killed. He was unmarried, and lived in Calderbank with a brother. [Scotsman 31 December 1923]
Read here :- http://www.monklands.co.uk/faskine/
James.
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Up to the end of the 18th Century miners in Scotland were basically serfs of the mineowners and their children were born into the same - any miner who left his employer without consent could even be charged with theft of himself as he was the property of the land owner/mine owner.
Had never come across this info previously, Falkryn. Sounds like slavery here, in the same period really, .... :-\
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Yes, Scottish coal miners, and salt workers, were legally bound to the coal master by an Act of Parliament in 1606 and added to in 1641 and 1661. It wasn't quite serfdom or slavery but it wasn't far off. There was also "arling" in which a mine master gave a baptism gift in return for the parent agreeing that the child would be brought up to be a miner. The Acts were partially repealed in 1775 and fully repealed in 1799.
However, from my reading up on the subject it appears that strict application of the law mainly took place in mines in the east of scotland, and in the west (Ayrshire, Renfrewshire and parts of Lanarkshire) it wasn't as strictly applied.
Not sure they were always considered "second class citizens", especially at times when their wages were higher than a lot of other manual jobs, but their tendency to live in miners' housing meant they were very much their own community and tended to marry within that community.
Robert Duncan's book "The Mine Workers" is excellent.
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Had never come across this info previously, Falkryn. Sounds like slavery here, in the same period really, .... :-\
Technically it was not slavery or even serfdom but to all practical intents it was.
Part of the 1606 Act of Parliament read :-
"That no person within this realm shall hire or induce any colliers or coal bearers without sufficient testimonial of their masters whom they last served and the said colliers and coal bearers are to be held as thieves and punished in their bodies for stealing themselves from their masters"
During this period when a mine was sold the miners and their families were included as part of the fixtures and fittings.
In the west of Scotland Mining really took off with the industrial revolution creating a need for coal and on many occasions the mine owners turned a blind eye to the law to induce miners to their properties from another as there was an acute shortage of skilled workers. That said when it suited them the mine owners were quick to apply the law as it stood, in 1770 the Carron Iron Company instructed their advocate to pursue warrants for 24 workers who had taken themselves off and also to pursue action against Masters at other coal works who were harbouring these "runaways" the fine was around £100 Scots per collier.
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I had no knowledge about this at all, so thank you both for the detailed comments :)
Monica
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Other legislation which affected not only miners but all working people were the Masters and Servants Acts in the 19th Century which basically laid down in law the obligations of the working man towards his employer e.g. no worker could, amongst other things, leave his/her employment without giving suitable notice to the employer although the employer could terminate the employment and occupation of tied housing immediately without giving any reason. In the 1870's a miner was taken to court by his previous employer for this and was fined the equivalent of 2 months wages or 1 month imprisonment.
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Map showing Woodhall
http://maps.nls.uk/view/74955784
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paulpesda, I just found my great great grandfather in the 1871 Scottish Census and they were also living on Woodhall Square in Woodhall Colliery. On the 1881 Census only his wife is listed (but still listed as married, not a widow) with the children. I found the http://www.scottishmining.co.uk website and looked at the accidents tab, but don't see his name and can't find anything for his death on Scotland's People, so still looking, but the website it very interesting. I wish they had some pictures of the houses or the people though.
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Pictures & info on Calderbank.
http://www.monklands.co.uk/calderbank/
James.
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There was also an influx of Welsh workers into nearby Gartcosh to work in the steel work.
Skoosh.
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Woodhall Pits number 1 2 and 3 are in the grounds of Woodhall Policies ,Near Calderbank ,Airdrie. This was a huge and stunningly beautiful estate owned by the Campbells of Shawfield and latterly by others ending with the daughters of Lord Whitelaw. The houses referred to in the info you gave were not the kind of thing we would imagine today .In fact they were transient and built like a camp of tiny rooms of dubious quality .Some were on the edge of the once fine gardens of the Woodhall House which had almost been stripped of the rarest plants in order to provide space for the miners and their families .The mineral here was the finest Black band Ironstone and in great demand at that time in the nearby Iron and Steel works. The nearby village of Calderbank had rows of a better quality, built on the slopes near the works. These were named.Scottish Row,Irish Row, Welsh Row and English Row. They were rented out ,payment taken from wages to Calderbank miners .After this the remnants of the Woodhall "houses" were swept away. Today this whole area is a sward of green ,the big house gone,the woods regrown. Luckily some rare plants survive from its heyday. A developer wants to bulldoze the lot.I walk there daily remembering the past and worrying about its future .We want to save it Stop the europark development campaign has a Facebook page and an online petition .The latter will be taken off soon to be handed over to our MP and MSP ...Maybe people would like to sign it while it is still there. SAVE WOODHALL AND FASKINE.
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Robert Duncan's book "The Mine Workers" is excellent...
I'd recommend the book too. My family were miners in Lanarkshire and West Lothian and I learned a lot from it.
There is still a street called English Row in Calderbank, although the houses there now are of a much more modern vintage!
Best wishes
Rockford
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This is an extract from the Hendersons of Fordell papers at the Scottish Archives to give a flavour of the lives of mining communities. I am sure the runaway couple are connected to my tree as I have a Jaap and Beveridges marriage in Dalgety.
"Coaltoun 2d April 1772
We Thomas Jap and Robert Beveridge Colliers belonging to Fordell Colliery hereby become bound for Walter Cowan Collier also bound to said Colliery and now lying in Edinburgh Tolbooth that immediately upon his liberation he shall come home to his Masters Work and their work peaceably and faithfully in future, without giving the least molestation or endeavouring to raise Mutinies or other disturbances in the colliery. As also that the said Walter Cowan shall bring home Elspith Jap a Coal Bearer likewise belonging to Fordell Works and now working about East Lothian. All this we engage and come bound for under the penalty of two pounds ten shillings sterling to be paid to Sir Robert Henderson in case of failure.
Thos. Japp his Initials TJ
Robert Beveridge his initials R
John Latta(?) signed for Elspith Japp (ink smudge)"
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This was too early to affect the Lanarkshire coalfields, miners here in Lanarkshire were not treated quite so badly, simply because the coal here wasn't really being extracted in an industrial scale until well into the 19th century. It began much earlier over in the east side of the country.
There were a few coal mines here, (not collieries) Coursington in Motherwell was one, its "coal book" for 1776 has survived and it shows that the mine really only supplied domestic fires in the parish.
The Duke of Hamilton brought in large amounts of poor Irish families to the Hamilton area during the 1820s (the start of the great religious divide in places like Larkhall etc.) but they were not, as far as I know, bound by any contract other than a "tied" house, a hovel in reality but still better than what they left behind in Ireland.
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This was too early to affect the Lanarkshire coalfields, miners here in Lanarkshire were not treated quite so badly, simply because the coal here wasn't really being extracted in an industrial scale until well into the 19th century. It began much earlier over in the east side of the country.
There were a few coal mines here, (not collieries) Coursington in Motherwell was one, its "coal book" for 1776 has survived and it shows that the mine really only supplied domestic fires in the parish.
The Duke of Hamilton brought in large amounts of poor Irish families to the Hamilton area during the 1820s (the start of the great religious divide in places like Larkhall etc.) but they were not, as far as I know, bound by any contract other than a "tied" house, a hovel in reality but still better than what they left behind in Ireland.
It wasn't a contract that tied down the 18th century miners - the Coal Masters relied upon the Law, an Act of the Scottish Parliament from the 17th century - which made it a criminal offence for any collier to leave their masters employment unless with the masters permission. In 1770 the Carron Iron Works had various warrants executed against different Coal Masters (including the Duke of Hamilton) for "harbouring" colliers who had left their employment. This form of lifelong servitude was to come to an end around 1800 following the passing of another Act of the UK parliament but throughout the 19th and early 20th Century various pieces of legislation continued to favour the Mine owners/ Mill Owners etc with regard to employment terms.
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"A 1606 Act "Anent Coalyers and Salters" had placed Scottish "coalyers, coal-bearers and salters" in a condition of permanent bondage to their employer.[1] Any such worker who absented from that employer and sought to work elsewhere was to be punished as a thief.[2] The Act also included provision whereby vagabonds could be placed unwillingly into the same compulsory labour.
Erskine May notes that these workers were thereafter treated "a distinct class, not entitled to the same liberties as their fellow-subjects".[3]
The 1775 Act noted that the Scottish coal workers existed in "a state of slavery or bondage"[4] and sought to address this. The main focus of the legislation was to remove the condition of servitude on new entrants to these industries, thus opening them to greater expansion. Although the Act noted "the reproach of allowing such a State of Servitude to exist in a Free Country", it sought not to do "any injury to the present Masters", so created only gradual conditions whereby those already in servitude in the mines could seek to be liberated from it."
From wikipedia
Although Acts where introduced to ease the burden on new miners it was not repealed in its entirety until only thirty years or so before the abolition of slavery. I don't want to get all political, but it does annoy me slightly when some revisionists seem to think we all should feel guilt about the slave trade, when many of our own ancestors lived in servitude. The owners of property deemed that the "poor" whether they were white or black were their property, (this view is certainly not intended to belittle the obscenity of the slave trade, and I apologise if offense is taken at the comparison), where they could pluck children from inner cities and move them to mills to work themselves to death or in the case of many of our ancestors where bound to a master for their entire life, a commodity rather than a free person.
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All those years I studied Scottish History wasted, I could just have read Wikipedia.
As I have already stated - this is the Lanarkshire Board and I presume the thread here is touching on Woodhall Colliery, something that did not exist in 1605, 1770, 1775 or at anytime before the last Act of Parliament outlawing the servitude of colliers.
The Dukes of Hamilton owned vast swathes of land in Lanarkshire, Stirlingshire, East & West Lothian etc. Carron Iron Works, last time I checked, was where it always was, on the banks of the river Forth, Stirlingshire. That may have been on land owned by the Hamilton family as part of the Kinneil Estate.
Please go back and check the original question on this thread, it only concerns the middle years of the 19th century onwards and has nothing to do with serfs and lifelong servitude.
If this did indeed happen in Lanarkshire (this is the Lanarkshire Board, just to remind people once again) where is the proof, forget about Wikipedia and hearsay, where is the actual written proof and where in this county of Lanarkshire did this happen?
If I can see evidence I'll be happy to hold up my hand and say "I was wrong" but, if, after the dates mentioned at the beginning of this post, there was such a situation in Lanarkshire, I would really like to know where.
No one is disputing what happened centuries ago in other parts of the country but, is it relevant to the original post concerning a family who only arrived in the country in the mid 1850s?
If it isn't relevant then why cloud the issue with it?
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No need to be facetious just a bit of chat. I think the conversation had moved on a bit from the original post, and my post was not meant to be relevant to Wood hall Colliery but just a bit of info. I don't think threads need to be totally narrow to the original post.
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Well, that's where we disagree. I think rambling on with irrelevant information only confuses the original poster. Any one of us can Google "Scottish colliers" just as you did and read exactly the same information as you have posted here, I was never a fan of duplication of effort.
And, once more, I maintain that the "Colliers and Salters" alluded to in the Wikipedia article had nothing at all to do with the Lanarkshire Coalfield. That was all east-coast, I've lived in Lanarkshire my whole life and never saw a salt-pan!
I will say nothing more on this thread as it is totally unfair to the original poster.
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I suggest you read "Slavery In The Coal-Mines Of Scotland" By James Barrowman, Mining Engineer
, which was Presented at the Annual General Meeting of the Federated Institution of Mining Engineers, on 14 September 1897.
While the report does not mention Woodhall Colliery it does mention several Lanarkshire mines and Coal masters and the use of this original piece of legislation to bind miners and other mine workers to a particular master in basically lifelong servitude.
added - just found a copy online at http://www.scottishmining.co.uk/429.html
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I did say that I would add nothing else to this thread but having just taken the trouble to read the link posted by Mr Falkyrn (or is it Mrs?) I suggest that he or she should take his own advice.
And thus it came about that the nineteenth century had dawned before it could be said in truth of Scotland, in the words of Cowper:— There are no slaves at home : then why abroad?
So, I was right, thank you for clearing the matter up. By the mid-19th century, the time the original poster of this thread was interested in, no such conditions survived in the Lanarkshire Coalfield.
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My great great grandfather, Rowland Evans b1828 and his wife Mary, b1835 moved from Trawsfynydd, North Wales to Old Monkland, Lanarkshire after 1855. (they had a son Abraham, who was born in North Wales in 1855) They were definitely there by 1856, as Mary gave birth to her daughter, and in 1861, as they are noted on the census, despite being down as born in 'England' (for shame!) on that registry. He is noted as being a 'coal miner', which would make sense coming from North Wales, and most probably came up to look for work. Why Scotland, I'm not sure? They were living at Woodhall Square, Woodhall, Old Monkland, and I was wondering if these houses were still there, and what mine he might have worked at?
On his son's birth certificate, it mentions 'Woodhall' colliery, as their address, so was there a colliery named as so?
any help would be great,
thanks so much, diolch
I don't know anything about the colliery or its housing unfortunately.
Your ancestor was living in a really progressive age when the "industrial revolution" had really taken hold. A few decades earlier the population of North Wales exploded as workers moved into the area.
When new coalfields were found the owners needed to tempt experienced workers from elsewhere with higher wages. For instance, in the 19th century you'll find Derbyshire miners moved to the Yorkshire coalmines due to higher pay.
There would be several ways that your ancestor learnt of the Old Monkland vacancies. From newspaper adverts; from annual job fairs; and as the industrious north Wales needed feeding there would be news from cattle drovers, etc., of opportunities to be had elsewhere.
" The Monkland Canal continued to provide market access to
many coal workings such as Woodhall, which had tramways from the pit to
the canal to ease conveyance of its Parrot coal and also the then more
important ironstone."
http://www.nmrs.org.uk/assets/pdf/BM45/BM45-66-86-monklands.pdf
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Many thanks to Falkyrn, Andrew C. and J.M.Strachan for their information about the serfdom or slavery in Scottish coal-mines until 1799. (By then we'd all been singing Britons never, never, never, shall be slaves for almost sixty years.)
These facts certainly make an enlightening change from so much we constantly hear about, say, Bannockburn.
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Everyday can be a school day on Rootschat.
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Many thanks to Falkyrn, Andrew C. and J.M.Strachan for their information about the serfdom or slavery in Scottish coal-mines until 1799. (By then we'd all been singing Britons never, never, never, shall be slaves for almost sixty years.)
These facts certainly make an enlightening change from so much we constantly hear about, say, Bannockburn.
Sadly the end of the 18th Century did not see an end to the domination of the workers whether miners or otherwise as Acts of Parliament known as the Masters & Servants Acts basically made it a criminal offence for any worker to leave their employment without giving "due notice" although the Employers had no need to give any notice (or reason) if they wished to dismiss a worker.
In 1866, 2 men (miners) were sentenced to 14 days imprisonment with hard labour at Hamilton Justice of the Peace Court having been charged and found guilty of deserting their service (ie not providing "due notice") at Braidwood Colliery.
In 1875 another Lanarkshire miner was fined over £7 with an alternative of 1 months imprisonment for refusing to complete his fortnights "due notice".
A Royal Commission was set up following a Mining disaster in Yorkshire in which 26 children under 16 died with a remit to look at the employment of women and children in the mining industry throughout the United Kingdom. In 1842 when the Commission submitted their report the findings and submissions were reported widely and were claimed "to shock the nation" major changes were planned but met serious opposition by vested interests in Parliament. One change that did come about was that females of any age and boys under 10 were no longer allowed to work underground.
Although well intentioned this actually led to further hardship as families found their incomes cut
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Ah yes, the guid auld days!
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The mining conditions info deserves a thread of its own