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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cardiganshire => Wales => Cardiganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: meaty on Tuesday 27 August 13 16:10 BST (UK)
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Hi all.
Just attempted to purchase my GG grandfathers Birth cert and after a couple weeks I have now been refunded.
His name was David Morgan, and his birthplace was St Dogmaels (which is just over the river in Pembrokeshire) but still registered as being in Cardigan, I believe.
His father was John Morgan, Shoemaker and his mother was Maria(h) (I do not know her maiden name).
Everything else regarding this family is plain sailing, but I cannot get the birth certificate to find his mother maiden name.
Thanks everyone.
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oops forgot the date... he was 11 in 1871 census, so I guess born in 1860. I do not have the 1861 census either.
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John and Mariah appear as married on the 1851 census in St Dogmaels
HO107/2481/382 p 3
John Morgan 27
Maria Morgan 27
Elizabeth Morgan 3
John Morgan 1
So you need to look for a possible marriage pre 1848 if they married before the first born
There's a marriage of Maria Griffiths in 1843 in Pembroke
Maria Rees in 1845 in Cardigan
Maria Jones in 1845 in Cardigan
A John Morgan appears as a possible husband on all three records
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Another suggestion, on the 1871 census David has a younger brother born c1865 in Cardigan.
Can only find these births
Births Jun 1865
Morgan Benjamin Cardigan 11b 2
Morgan Benjamin Cardigan 11b 5
MORGAN Benjamin Cardigan 11b 5
Why not contact Cardigan register office and ask them to check those three records for parents of John and Maria, you will then find mum's maiden name that way
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I can confirm I have the right family in 1851 as there is a tree online listing children of John and Maria
Elizabeth Morgan 1848 –
John Morgan 1850 –
Mary Morgan 1855 –
William Morgan 1858 –
David Morgan 1859 –
James Morgan 1863 –
Benjamin Morgan 1865 –
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Assuming I've found the same "Ancestry" tree referred to by Tree Tective - I, personally, would NOT put any great faith in the information contained in it. There are no birth or baptism dates given, and therefore I can only assume that this family is based on the 1851 and 1871 census returns and the information then inserted into the tree for whatever reason, as I can't see much forward evidence.
My advice would be to look for baptismal records for St Dogmaels, and as Mariah is said to originate from St Dogmaels, perhaps the marriage records as well.
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St. Dogmells / St. Dogmaels came under Cardigan Register Office area, and two of the marriages (both 1845) I quoted were registered in Cardigan if they married in St. Dogmaels, as they were both born c1824 making them 21 tying the knot.
You can now kill two birds with one query to Cardigan Register Office
1. Verify Benjamin's birth in 1865 for parents
2. Check out both 1845 marriages and see if they match up
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Hi and thanks for your replies!
I think these 2 are most likely for John:
Maria Rees in 1845 in Cardigan
Maria Jones in 1845 in Cardigan
Thanks for your suggestions of contacting the local register office. I have not done that before as I have only ordered from GRO online. Do I just write a plain letter asking if they can do a couple of searches for me?
Nice thinking re: searching for a sibling! I will do just as you say, and will post the results up on here.
Thanks very much!
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Hi meaty
fees and contact details for the register office are here
http://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=11825
looks like they charge for searching as well as supplying certs.
Going back to your opening post, what did you order from the gro for them to have rejected your application? ?If you used the gro reference and entered the name exactly as it appears in the index, they should have sent the cert.
What exact reason did they give?
Remember that even though civil registration started in 1837, it wasn't compulsory to register births until 1875, so there may not be a cert to find.
Dawn
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Hi Thanks for your reply.
I made an order for Davids birth cert, without any refs, because if I selected this option it mentioned they would search a year either way (if I remember correctly).
The response I had was :
"We have searched the indexes for events registered in England and Wales during the years specified (1861-1863). We have been unable to find any entry with the details you provided."
It would seem that contacting the local record office will cost £28 (if they have the record) as a search is £18 and the cert is £10. If this is the only way then I will have to cough up I guess!
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I've found the family in 1861 Census at St. Dogmells - as Morgans! - ref. RG9 - 4176 - 41 - 5
The family don't seem too hot on ages - in 1861 David shown as age 2 i.e. bc.1858-9
This census also shows there was also a son Thomas bc.1852.
Looking at births I suspect David could be the David Morgans whose birth reg'd Cardigan in Sept.1859 (I note family were Morgans in 1881 too).
Annette
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Good find Annette.
I would try the GRO again without using the reference for the surname MorganS, year of birth 1859, place of birth St Dogmells, parents John & Maria MorganS and see what happens this time. It does take about 15 working days to process these orders, with a reference takes up to 5 working days. If there's no match again you'll get your money back.
If the reg office do make this charge (and it's not the only one), it would be a last resort. But if the GRO don't find the 2nd application, there may not be a cert to find, as I mentioned before, and you may not get all your money back from the reg office.
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Seems you may have the same problem as I did with my West Wales secret society connections starting off as MORGANS and then changing to MORGAN.
There is a marriage in 1847 that would match data but this was registered in Pembroke, but I still fancy those Cardigan registered marriages
Marriages Dec 1847
Morgans John Pembroke 26 1025
Williams Maria Pembroke 26 1025
In 1881 John and Maria indicate they were born abt 1813, that's 10 years difference from other census returns of abt 1824
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I mentioned they weren't good on ages earlier - 1851 both ca.1824, 1861 he ca.1811, she ca.1814, 1871 both ca.1824, 1881 both c.1813!
Annette
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Hi and thanks for your replies.
Annette nice find thank you very much! Kicking myself now re: the name spelling! Could I trouble you for a copy of that 1861 census please? My subscription as up at present, so cannot view census records.
Dawnsh I have placed an order just as you say. Fingers crossed!
Treetective – When I receive the certificate, I will then be able to check your suggestions to see which is the right one. The age inconsistencies would appear to be terrible! Can I also ask for a copy of the 1881 census record please? I have some of their other census returns but 1881 I have labelled “tried and tried – must be missing”!! It is this reason that I have missed this record – my searches have been too narrow.
Thanks all. Waiting game now, and I have my fingers crossed!
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1861 Census - St. Dogmell's, Pembrokeshire - ref. RG9 - 4176 - 41 - 5
John Morgans 50 Shoe Maker b. St. Dogmells
Maria Morgans 47 ditto
Elizth. Morgans 12 ditto
John Morgans 11 ditto
Thomas Morgans 9 ditto
Mary Morgans 8 ditto
William Morgans 6 ditto
David Morgans 2 ditto
Annette
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1881
John Morgans 68 born Bridel shoemaker
Maria Morgans 68 born St Dogmels
James Morgans 18 Porter born Cardiganshire
Benjamin Morgans 15 Brickmaker at Brick works born Cardiganshire
address is 1 Upper Mwldan Cardigan St Mary
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Ah wonderful thank you very much both. I see that they record 2 different birthplaces too, so that could also add to my failure to find them!
Thanks. I will report back when I recive news from GRO.
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Right well I heard back last week.
John Morgan married Maria Jones in Blaenwaun Chapel St Dogmaels in 1846. Johns father was William Morgan, Shoemaker and Marias Father was John Jones, Labourer.
Thank you very much all.