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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: dubbleu_b on Sunday 11 July 04 15:40 BST (UK)
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I'm wondering if anyone can give me a little more information on the significance of the type of church one attended.
My ancestors DAVID SPRATT and MARY ANN STEPHENSON were married in Liverpool, 1852 in St. Andrew's Church. I am told that this was a "Scotch" church but I don't know what this means, or what the significance of this might be. I recently located the 1851 census index for Liverpool and David Spratt lists his birthplace as Ireland. Is there anything in these two known facts that can help me make further connections or tell me where to look?
Your thoughts are appreciated.
Wendy
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Hi Wendy
I may be wrong, and somebody will quickly correct me if I am,
but
I think a 'Scotch Church' was of the Roman Catholic Demonination
Chris in 1066Land
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Wendy
I don't know Liverpool at all, but I have looked at the Genuki site and discovered 2 churches dedicated to St. Andrew. One is C of E founded 1815, the other is in Rodney St and is Presbyterian, founded 1824. St. Andrew is of course the patron saint of Scotland, so that may be why someone said it was Scottish (Scotch is for whisky and mist, my husband - a Scot - is Scottish not Scotch). Also the Scots are generally more presbyterian in their churches, although there are Catholic, Episcopalian and lots more besides, including the "Wee Frees" (the Free Church of Scotland). The certificate should tell you which one of these two churches it was. At a guess, since David Spratt was born in Ireland, it was probably the presbyterian church and he came from the north.
Just read Chris in1066Land's reply, I reckon he knows lots more than I do judging by the quality of the help he provides, but personally I doubt David was catholic, but I'm prepared to be proved wrong.
My 'Oracle' was of no help on this query - and I think my Halo is slipping, it was the other half suggestion that it was RC - mainly because she was brought up in Scotland - but I would go with your interpretation Nell. Chris
Hope that helps.
Nell
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Does this help?
http://members.tripod.com/~Caryl_Williams/churches-2.html
(Quotes from above site)
Scotch church (St Peter's) Scotland rd opened May 21, first stone laid March 23 1842
Foundation stone of St George's church, Myrtle street for the congregation seceeding from St Andrew's Scotch church, Rodney street, laid on the site of the old one, May 1 opened August 6 1845
Scotch* secession church Grange lane Birkenhead opened April 21
St Peter's (Scotch*) Presbyterian curch Great Oxford street (now Silvester steeet) opened May 9 1849
St Matthews church Scotland road (formerly St Peter's Scotch* church) consecrated June 25 1849
Looks as though St Peter's were two a penny in Liverpool (up the Reds!) and Scotch meant some type of church which flourished in Liverpool (the Isle of Man seems to have had one too).
Found this too http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/Liverpool-Central/standrew.html.
Personally, speaking as a non-Scot, I think this Scot/Scottish/Scotch thing is quite a new concept and folk in the past were not so sniffy! ;D
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Hi All
Might as well add my two pen'uth. Before I run down to evensong.
It seems that there were several churches built in Liverpool with funding help from the church of Scotland, St Andrews Rodney St. being one, they were built to further the Prestbyterian preachings Liverpudlians of the day nicknamed them rightly or wrongly Scotch churches, and the name seems to have stuck, record details of this church are listed on this link.
http://www.a2a.org.uk/html/138-285coo.htm
regards
peterbennett
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Always rely on the Oxford Dict of Quotations!
"Minds like ours, my dear James, must always be above national predjudices, and in all companies it gives me true pleasure to declare, that, as a people, the English are very little indeed inferior to the Scotch."
Written 1826 by John Wilson who wrote under the name of Christopher North. He was Scottish! :)
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Thanks!
I'm looking at the marriage certificate and it doesn't have an address, but both parties listed their residence as 14 Argyle Street at the time of marriage.
The header says "Marriage solemnized at St. Andrew's Church in the Parish of Liverpool in the County of Lancaster". The footer reads "Married in the Church of St. Andrews according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church, by (crossed out)_______ or (crossed out) after Banns.
I've found nothing else that might indicate he or anyone was RC, and most of their children were christened in St. Peter's, Liverpool, again, I don't know the address of the St. Peter's.
Since I have not found anything on his parents yet, these small clues will at least help give some direction.
Thanks
Wendy
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Only just stumbled over this topic ages after everyone else has lost interest in it. The marriage certificate clearly indicates and Anglican Church (Church of England, if that makes it any clearer!)
St Peter wasn't a very popular Anglican dedication in Liverpool because of the connection between St Peter and Rome, so there are, I believe, relatively few. St Peter, Everton might be worth considering as it's in the Scotland Road area and gives a vague connection to the Scotch theme!
Sue
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Hi
Thanks for the additional information. It's helpful to have these details as I try to locate this ancestor's elusive family!
Wendy
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Wendy,
I am also the great great grandchild of John Livingstone and Crawford Spencer. They had a daughter Margaret Livingstone and she was married to my great grandfather Thomas M Allsop. They had seven children. Henry, Warren, Jack, Earl Spencer, Ethel May, Grace and My grandfather Albert Edward.
Albert married Margaret McCormick
At one point they moved to Greene, Rhode Island.
My father Robert E Allsop died in 1985 in Hartwell, Georgia.
His brothers Warren Henry Allsop still lives in Kingston RI
and David Marshall Allsop lives in Big Pine Key, FL.
I don't have much more information other than that.
egryphon
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:D Wow! I never thought I'd find anyone else from this family. I'd love to share info if you're interested. I'll send you my e-mail via PM.
Wendy