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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Worcestershire => England => Worcestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: kelz29 on Wednesday 21 August 13 21:32 BST (UK)
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Hi all, im really stuck, im trying to trace back my great grandfathers line, here is what i have from his birth certificate....
Andrew Phillips Beckley b. 6th August 1871 - Temperance Street Blockhouse?
Fathers Name: (Blank)
Mothers Name: Emma Beckley
Birth Registered in Worcester South.
Is there anyway i can find Emma Beckley, i know im never going to be able to find out who the father was.
Help would be much appreciated x
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
The 1871 census has a 19yr old Emma Beckley working as a waiter in South Worcs and shown as born Worcs. No other in Worcs
RG10 Piece 3052 Folio 29 Page 1
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The 1881 only has one Andrew Beckley aged 10 but b Fyfield Berks and was in the Berkshire Workhouse. There was also a 1mth old Ada Maude Beckley in the same WH plus an Emma Beckley aged 28. However - Emma is shown as b Tubney? Berkshire and is a widow
The children are not shown as with her on the census return
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Hi Carole, their is an Emma Beckley b c 1853 Tubney, Berks in same Workhouse, she states she is a Widow, but their is an Emma Beckley b c 1853 Tubney, with widowed father David in 1861 Census Ref RG09/730/18/3
Keyboard
PS youv'e modified your post again!
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I have found out the self same information and believe that Emma Beckley is the one bc.1853 Tubney, dau. of David.
By 1881 David has remarried.
I don't believe the 'Worcester' birthplace given for Emma in 1871. I haven't checked the other names in that household but since they were mainly either servant/lodgers I find it extremely odd that all of them are shown as born Worcester!! A lazy enumerator methinks (or lazy head of household).
Seems a pretty good bet that Andrew's father was a Mr. Phillips!!
So what happened to Emma Beckley after 1881?
Annette
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Ada Maude Beckley died in 1881.
There is an unmarried Emma Beckley b Tubney on the 1891 but age looks like 58 so birthyear transcribed as 1833. No children with her
RG12 Piece 977 Folio 17 Page 27
EDIT - ignore - she is on the 1881
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Don't think that is her, CaroleW - definitely says 58 but there was a unmarried Emma Beckley born circa 1835 Tubney in 1881 and I think the 1891 entry is her.
Annette
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He-He CaroleW - you'd edited whilst I was typing!
Annette
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I thought the same in regards to somehow Phillips being a family name somewhere as its unusual to have that as a middle name with the S, when i first started researching i thought that the S was a typo online, but it is there on his birth certificate.
Do you not think i should pay much attention to Emma's place of birth then on that census?
I did find one Emma Beckley b.1851 in west bromwich on the birmingham bmi website
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This is getting weirder - I have just posted the following reply - and it's missing. Here goes again
Re: edits. Before I edit a post, I check to see if anybody has already posted another reply. In both cases above - there was no reply after mine so I edited. Weird ???
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CaroleW - when I was mid-stream, so to speak, typing out my reply was clearly when you edited. When I posted no other new post had gone through so no red warning!
No worries.
Annette
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Re 1871 census - Emma is working in the "Coventry Arms" for a publican named William PHELPS. I may just have an over-active imagination, but do PHELPS and PHILLIPS sound suspiciously similar? :-\
Rambler
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Hi
Like Rambler I wondered about Mr Phelps the landlord of the Coventry Arms, where Emma was living at the time of the 1871 census, but I checked the baptismal record for Andrew at Worcester, St Pauls, his middle name was written as Phillips.
Andrew wasn’t baptised until April 22 1872, by then Emma was living in Carden Street. It is probably a coincidence but 15 days after Andrew was born on 6th August 1871, Walter James Phillips was baptised on 21st August at the same church. He was the son of Walter James Phillips (a waterman) and Mary Ann Phillips of Meadow Row.
I couldn’t locate a Bastardy Order, and as Emma and Andrew were in the workhouse on the next census, perhaps she didn’t apply for support from Andrew’s father.
Jack
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Hey, yea at one time i did wonder about Phelps and Phillips sounding similar but i thought it might be abit far fetched, would Mr Phelps of really kept her around living in the same house as his wife!
I know i will probably never be able to find out who Andrews father was so i was hoping to track down Emma Beckley and who her parents were etc.
You say you found Emma Beckley in the Workhouse on the next census (1881) ive only been able to find an Andrew Beckley (right age) in the workhouse but it says he was born in Berkshire and the workhouse is in Oxfordshire
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Hi
There are well over 100 people in the workhouse and Emma Beckley is on the census page before Andrew. It states that she was born in Tubney Berkshire (as mentioned by CaroleW)
Although the places of births aren’t what you expected I believe it is "your" Emma and Andrew. I suspect that the publican at the Coventry Arms, Worcester told the enumerator that all his staff were born in Worcester because it was less hassle. Looking at the surrounding pages of the census there aren’t any other blocks of residents all born in the same place, so the enumerator seems to have done his best.
You know that Andrew married in the Birmingham registration district in 899.Did either of the witnesses have the surname New? I ask because on 5 March 1887 Andrew had joined the 4th Battalion the Oxford Light Infantry. He gave his address as 4 Caroline Street, Oxford, his place of birth Worcester and his religion as Wesleyan.
The family living at 4 Caroline Street at the time of the 1891 census were Job New aged 26 a general dealer born in Abingdon Berkshire and his wife EMMA stated to be aged 30 born in TUBNEY Berkshire and their young family.
Job and Emma are at the same address up to and including the 1911 census which states that they have been married for 26 years. Job was younger than her and whilst married to Job none of the census returns show that she was born in 1853.
Jack
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Hi
Since posting my last message about Andrew's military record and Emma's marriage to Job New I've found out a bit more about Emma. She had married Thomas Smith in the Headington, Oxfordshire registration district in 1882, so when she married Job New in the Oxford registration district 1886 it was as Emma Smith. Her probable death registration indicates that she was 82 when she died in 1934.
Jack
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Wow thank you for all that info, it makes for a very interesting read and because of that bit you wrote about Andrew being in the military i managed to find a piece of information on how he served as an aircraft engineer for the RAF in WW1.
As of yet i haven't got Andrews wedding certificate to My Gt Nan Emma Harper, but i definitely think i will now.
One thing though, i looked at the 1881 census for Emma Beckley and found the one we have been talking about and it lists her as a widower then!!!!
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Hi
As the RAF record for Andrew Beckley is for 1918-1928 and hasn’t been digitised it could be expensive to get a copy. Despite the similarity in the two names, the RAF Andrew Philip Beckley was an engineer, which doesn’t fit well with your Andrew Phillips Beckley’s situation in the 1901 or 1911 census. In 1901 Andrew was in the Upton-on-Severn Worcs workhouse, occupation chimney sweep. He was there with his wife Emma and their eldest child Andrew who seems to have died in 1906. We cannot post details from the 1911 census but your Andrew wasn’t an engineer.
As regards Emma calling herself a widow on the 1881 census. It was not uncommon for an unmarried woman with a child to call herself a widow. There was a real stigma attached to being an unmarried mother.
Jack
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Hi Jack, sorry meant mechanic for the RAF, dont know if thats a similar thing! this is what the artical says...... "A.BECKLEY - AIR MECHANIC -RAF, He joined in July 1918 but was found to be too old for service overseas and was retained on important duties at homestations. He rendered services of a valuable nature under conditions which demanded a high degree of technical skill and knowledge until his demobilisation in 1919. 8 Lime grove, Skinner Lane, Birmingham"
I then found Andrew Philip Beckley (middle name spelt wrong) on the 1918 electrol roll as living at 8 Lime grove. Add to that, that in 1918 he was 47 years old and the above artical said he was too old for overseas duty??
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Oh i should add that the reason i believe the Andrew PHILIP Beckley on the elctrol roll is the same as Andrew PHILLIPS Beckley is because all the electrol rolls have it spelt Philip and the later electrol rolls are of the area my great grandfather lived according to my dads side of the family who all still remain in Birmingham.
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Hi
Thanks for the details of your great-grandfather Andrew’s later occupation and technical skills. Glad to hear that you have been able to track him through the electoral roll.
Jack
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Thanks for all your help, i am awaiting arrival of their marriage certifcate to follow up on the surname of 'New' to see if your correct :)
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Hi, Just an update, i got the marriage certificate, but there was no one by the surname of 'New' as a witness, however oddly enough as i previously had said Andrew Phillips Beckley's birth Certificate only listed his mother Emma Beckley and Father 'Unknown', yet on his marriage certificate it says his father was also Andrew Philip Beckley (Deceased) Occupation: Artist!!! However this has just led me to another dead end as i cannot find anyone by that name anywhere.
I assumed he had taken his mothers maiden name but surely this would suggest she was married to his father.