RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Graham47 on Wednesday 21 August 13 14:24 BST (UK)
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Of all my documents collected so far none have been death certificates, but given that past knowledge on matters medical was so vague it has got me wondering about the named causes of death and indeed, what others here have found recorded.
Intriguing to find would be such things as 'Raising of the Lights', 'Bad blood', 'Kings Evil', 'Miasma' and of course when all else fails (no pun intended) and the poor doctor did not have the foggiest idea - 'Visitation by God'.
Actually, I did find the following for one of my great grandfathers who died in 1800 "..... the late Mr. John Allenby [of Tadcaster], who was killed by a fall from his horse while on his way to York market"
At least that was unambiguous!
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There's a website explaining old names for causes of death www.antiquusmorbus.com
It's very interesting. (Without looking it up I think miasma was starvation of some sort.)
rayard.
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Sorry I don't know how to correct my previous post, miasma is something to do with polluted air!!!
P. S. I've just found the "modify message" button and used it to correct this!
rayard.
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Visitation of God is listed in the 1909 Manual of the International Causes of Death 2nd Revision As: Cause of death not specified or ill defined. It had been said that death from Visitation of God might imply a punishment from God of someone who was sinful, but it could also mean someone who was blessed by God because they were spared from enduring a distressing illness, or they were rewarded for their virtuous life by admission to heaven. . It was very common in the nineteenth century.
See http://www.antiquusmorbus.com/English/EnglishV.htm
Stan
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One of my family died of "causes unknown" but there was no inquest.
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From 1783 to 1812 the burial register for Croston, Lancashire has entries for cause of death. You can see the transcriptions on the Lancashire Online Parish Clerks site www.lan-opc.org.uk
Of course the clergy had to rely on what the relatives told them, so we need a bit of translation.
Reading through, you see waves of common childhood illnesses passing by, along with deaths from "childbed" and the ever-present tuberculosis. One infant died from St. Anthony's Fire - ergot poisoning. A 51-year-old man was "Bruised in fighting" in Wigan.
One of my relatives was "Casually poisoned" in 1788, which also tells us about a shift in the language. I think today we would use "Accidentally".
An earlier entry is undoubtedly intended as a caution - "Drownd wle. Nutting on ye Sunday".
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"Drownd wle. Nutting on ye Sunday". ;D
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A few of the interesting entries I've found while trawling through the Suffolk parish registers:
Lydia daughter of James GOSTLING and Mary his wife was buried March 15th (1762) “who dropt down dead in the churchyard as she was lowring her mother in ye grave”
"A shipwrecked stranger taken dead off a piece of wreck at sea and brought to shore and buried in March 5th (1733). He dyed just as a boat got to him having been 2 or 3 days on the wreck pinched with hunger and cold as his 3 companions related that were alive"
6th September 1829
John Larum of Pakefield age 61 – fell down dead whilst hoeing turnips.
Many were simply stated as being "worn out".
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Senile decay is one that always makes me wonder.
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andrewwalston is correct when they state that St. Anthony`s Fire is ergotism but that term was also used for Erysipelas, a streptococcal skin disease. The source was often from the sufferer`s own nasal passage.It was usually on the face and neck but could be on other parts too.
I imagine it would be a shock to the system and such a large area of infection could cause the toxins to affect the heart muscle. Horrible.
Viktoria.
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One of my ancestors died of Scrofula and Diseased Knee, he was 21. Reading about it on the internet, it sounds a horrible painful disease. It was also known as The King's Evil in the past as it was believed that a touch from the king could cure the disease. ::)
Lizzie
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King George III was a bit "touched" himself, I believe. ;D
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King George III had Porphyria, a blood disease.One symptom was purple urine hence the name.
It manifests itself in very varied ways among which are :- Abnormally pale skin.
Tiredness and extreme anaemia.
Inability to tolerate bright sunlight.
Hair receding into a deep widow`s peak.
Receding gums making the teeth seem longer .
Remind you of anything ? Given that sufferers were often very anaemic and had to eat raw meat and liver and even blood from animals it is not a far step from the horror movies depictions of vampires. There was a high incidence in Romania, genetic by intermarriage I expect . George III did not seem to have those symptoms but was cerainly ill at times and his urine was purple according to a T.V documentry on the subject , as I said the symptoms vary greatly .He had prolonged periods of seeming insanity but it could have been anything when you think how poor medical diagnosis was at the time.
Princess Margaret was a sufferer, again according to the documentry. Viktoria.
seem . .
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My grandfather's youngest sister died at the age of 17 in an asylum. Cause of death............"exhaustion from mania". Further research showed she had in fact had a child and being unmarried there was reason not to give a true cause. I'm guessing it was complications from childbirth. These cases were often covered up.
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Quoting from the original post -
Actually, I did find the following for one of my great grandfathers who died in 1800 "..... the late Mr. John Allenby [of Tadcaster], who was killed by a fall from his horse while on his way to York market"
At least that was unambiguous!
Sorry to be the Devil's Advocate but this is not the cause of death, it is really the reason for it so it is very ambiguous. There are many possible causes of death that can result from his fall but I doubt if you will ever find out. I've enjoyed the thread though, so thanks for posting it.
Colin
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Very true Colin and a bit like being hit by a bus, but I was just quoting a report from a local Gazette. I suppose in the early days of newspapers they were not so precise given that so many others causes of death were at best just guesses anyway. Could have been more like the King of Jerusalem - fell from horse while hunting in 1143. His wooden saddle fell after him, striking him on the head, causing fatal injuries. Ouch!
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I have quite a lot of death certificates in my tree, off the top of my head there is "shock due to falling into scalding tank of water", "crushed to death by truck" and "dress caught on fire and burned to death" (at the ripe age of 95 though!) theres also a brave few deaths from madness!
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Burns were common I think, especially it seems with children and from nightdresses catching fire from standing to close to those open fires I expect. I have a record of an ancestor of ours, a little girl known as "the burnt child" so I guess she must have survived such a experience. All very sad.
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My great grandfather's two year old sister's death certificate (1872) states under cause of death "Violent. Water on the brain from shock from accidental scratch of a cat".
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I got a certificate yesterday (unfortunately wrong one so that's money wasted ::) ) but the cause of death was Mortification. Apparently that means gangrene or other kind of decay.
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There is a Visitation of God in my tree which reads;
"An inquisition at Copenhagen House Tavern in the parish of St Mary
Islington on the 11th day of February in the 6th year of the reign of Lord
William IV.. on view of the body of John ***** .. now here lying dead ...
when, how and by what means the said John ***** came to his death do upon
their oaths say, that on the 9th day of February in the year aforesaid, the
said John ***** then and there died by the visitation of God and not
otherwise."
He was pretty old and probably 'in his cups'
Joe
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Sadly not all that unusual, but it was a shock to come across this account of my great-uncle asI knew nothing of this:
Pontypridd Observer 8 June 1907: Inquest on the Body of Mr Vazie Simons
Mr R.J. Rhys, Coroner, Aberdare, held an inquest on Monday touching the death of the late Mr Vazie Simons, the well-known solicitor who was found in his chambers, Market Square, Pontypridd, on Saturday last shot near the heart.
Mr Sidney (sic) Simons, Mayor of Merthyr, […......] In answer to the Coroner, witness said he personally did not know anything about any depression his brother had lately suffered. He had lately lost a very important appointment, which he held, and that gave him a great deal of trouble and anxiety. He never knew the deceased to have a revolver in his life, neither was he in the habit of going about with one in his pocket. He had been abroad in Australia and might have carried one there.
Mr W Upham, a clerk in the deceased's employ, spoke to seeing his late chief coming to the office on Saturday morning. Witness went into the room three times, but the deceased never spoke to him. He had been very quiet during the last few days and different to usual. Witness did not hear the report of a firearm but his fellow-clerk shouted to him and when he rushed into the deceased's room, he saw him sitting in his chair with the revolver on the blotting pad. Deceased lived for about four minutes but did not speak. Witness had never seen a revolver with the deceased and was not aware that he carried one.
Mr James Taylor, chief clerk, states that he had a conversation with his master that morning and he appeared to be very rational. Witness, however, knew that he had been depressed for some days. Witness heard a report of a pistol and on going into the room saw Mr Simons in his chair. He immediately telephoned for medical assistance.
[….....]
Inspector Salter said when he got to the office, the deceased, who was being supported by his clerk, was quite dead. He examined the body and found a bullet mark in the region of the heart. The revolver (produced) was on the table directly in front of the deceased with one of the five chambers discharged. The Coroner (inspecting the weapon): It is quite a new revolver. Have you any information where it has been bought? Inspector Salter: No, but it has not been bought at Pontypridd.
The Coroner, in directing the jury, said that he always thought in cases of that nature that the least said the better. They had the fact that the two clerks heard the report, and immediately after found the deceased dying in his chair; and Dr Lyttle (sic) had told them that the wound was self-inflicted. The brother had informed them that the deceased had just lost a very important appointment which had made him depressed and it was for the jury to say whether that was sufficient to justify them saying that the deceased was of unsound mind.
The jury returned a verdict of "Suicide during temporary insanity" and the foreman, Mr Roddy, expressed sympathy with the bereaved family.
The Coroner joined in the expression of condolence, adding that it was his business to be in the midst of trouble, but in this case he felt it more particularly because he had known deceased since he was a lad.
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Just had a cert back...cause of death..."amputation of the elbow" ::) So did he die as a result of the operation or his no doubt diseased elbow? Guess we'll never know.
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Just had a cert back...cause of death..."amputation of the elbow" ::) So did he die as a result of the operation or his no doubt diseased elbow? Guess we'll never know.
Wonder how they amputated (just) the elbow ? ;D ;D... there wouldn't be much of the forearm left I expect ::) ::)
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Just had a cert back...cause of death..."amputation of the elbow" ::) So did he die as a result of the operation or his no doubt diseased elbow? Guess we'll never know.
Wonder how they amputated (just) the elbow ? ;D ;D... there wouldn't be much of the forearm left I expect ::) ::)
I've puzzled over this, I'm wondering if it should have read at not of and someone just made a mistake ???
Some older certs aren't very helpful, I have another with cause of death 'insane' :o thankfully the lady concerned wasn't one of mine or the thought of how she
really died might have driven me insane. :(
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I agree with Suey but I have to wonder if there is a difference in the Registration Districts as to the actual 'Cause of Death' - Falling from a horse (but died of a broken neck), Amputation at the elbow (shock to the system, septicemia [blood poisoning], Gangrine, etc. etc.
It seems very probable that there could be a different interpretation of the cause of death, and the GRO (Registrar General) would have to accept the quarterly returns and possibly query some of them :o
Colin
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The Births and Deaths Registration Act had three principal aims, to facilitate legal proof of death, to prevent the concealment of crime, and to produce accurate mortality statistics. The prescribed form had a space for the cause of death, but completion of this was based on information supplied by the informant, or by the coroner who seldom had access to autopsy findings. Because of the deficiencies in the system, which were soon identified, in 1842 the Registrar General asked doctors to provide informants with a written cause of death, and in 1843 produced a a classification or arrangement of diseases, the first attempt to produce standard classified lists of the causes of death. In 1845 ten thousand licensed doctors received books of death certificates which they were invited to complete “to the best of their knowledge and belief” but in 1858 over 11 per cent of deaths were still registered without any medical information. In this year the General Medical Council came into existence, but there were 5000 medical practitioners not registered with the GMC and they were not initially included in the death certificate exercise.
The 1874 Act attempted to improve matters, and the ‘invitation’ to doctors to provide information became a ‘duty’, but unregistered ‘medical practitioners’ did not loose the right to issue certificates until 1885.
Dealing with Death: A Handbook of Practices, Procedures and Law isbn=1843103818
Stan
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I have a sad one my GGG Grandmother Mary died in 1856 when she was 36 years old. There was an inquest that was inconclusive it says she may have been raped. It says she died of the DTs I think she must have drank herself to death.
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I recently felt really dim - in a parish register I thought I read someone had died"Of long tail" - I put a query on Rootschat after trying to find out what it might have been - and it turned out someone brighter read it to mean "Of long tail (a place nearby). Of course I felt very dim. But I did spend some time wondering in quite a creative way....
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The mind boggles! ;D
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Hubby has a relative who was a railway worker and who (illegally) hitched a ride back to the station holding onto a wagon but slipped and fell on jumping off and the wagon ran right over him. The inquest was reported in the paper and makes harrowing reading - typical graphic Victorian journalism in that he was basically sliced in half :( All workers had to sign to say that they wouldn't do such things as hitching rides when they collected their weekly wages (could they all read?) so his wife received no pension for him :(
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(could they all read?)
You don't give a date but illiteracy was not as widespread as is commonly thought. Thanks to the growth in freelance schooling, all privately financed, literacy levels had risen to about 92 per cent by 1870 and Forster's Education Act. In any case I would think the railway company would expect their employees to be able to read and write before they employed them, working for the railway was a very secure job so they could take their pick.
Stan
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I have one with just 'old age' written on it as cause of death - thought that was probably quite a nice way to go (he was 99)