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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: johnbarr on Wednesday 21 August 13 03:49 BST (UK)
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Sydney (or sometimes Sidney) Egmont Hill is shown on Electoral Rolls of Stratford and New Plymouth from 1911 to 1960. He married Emma Belinda Gordon 19 Jun 1922 (in NZ) and he died 24 Sep 1960 in New Plymouth, buried at Te Henui, New Plymouth cemetery. Age at death shown as 71, so b. abt 1889, but not found at NZ BDM.
NZ Army Rolls show him, and brother Leonard, enrolling 1917 with father shown as A.J. Hill of Warwick Rd. Stratford. There is no record found at NZ BDM for birth of Leonard either, but younger brothers Ronald b1899, Arthur Leslie b1906 and Lawrence George b1910 are shown there with parents John and Elizabeth.
Family sources say his (Sydney's) father was known as 'John' Hill, and his mother's name 'might' have been Elizabeth, (possibly from births of younger brothers) but no other details are known.
I have been unable to find any records to give further details of his parents, so might have to purchase a marriage printout, but just wondered if any of the bright sparks here could offer any suggestions or leads ???
Thanks
John B
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Hi John,
There would appear to be quite an age gap between Sydney (abt. 1889) and Ronald (1899), although there was another child, Frederick, presumably born after Sydney and before Ronald?
Could this be a case of the mother of the later children having been married previously? And those two older boys took the name of her second husband, but were registered under the first married name?
Just tossing ideas around here!
Minniehaha.
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What about this birth?
1889/18970 Anderson Sydney Egmont Elizabeth NR
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Hi John
His WW1 file is at Wellington Archives,maybe a request to have it digitised will shed some light on his parents
AABK 18805 W5541/4 0054808 HILL, Sydney Egmont - WW1 11/2116 - Army1914 1918 Wgtn
http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=18048075
Cheers Janette
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Which may fit with this marriage:
1901/5782 Elizabeth Anderson John Hill
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Hi Minniehaha,
Thanks for the ideas.
There was apparently more than one ::) couple with names Elizabeth and John Hill giving birth to children about that time. The only names my friend has given me for their children are Sydney Egmont, Leonard, Roy (?) Ronald, Arthur and Laurie. They suspect there was a sister but have no recollection of her name. The only other clue I have is that they lived in Taranaki, probably Stratford.
Where did you find Frederick?
John B
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Hi Twiggy,
That certainly looks promising, and could explain part of the mystery. Now to find what happened to that John and Elizabeth.
John B
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Thanks Janette,
Cenotaph shows the next-of-kin as A.J. Hill of Warwick Rd. Stratford. Do you think the Archive file might have more detail? I suppose the only way to find out is to request it and check 8)
I cannot find any A.J. Hill of Warwick Rd. Stratford on Electoral Rolls.
John B
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I guess that looking at the births microfiche, where you could find out where the births were registered, may help you whittle down the possible children to this couple.
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The 1889 birth of Sydney Egmont Anderson was registered in Opunake.
Cheers
Helen
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Thanks Helen and Twiggy,
There's an awful lot of Hills to look over - mountains of them! ;D
but Opunake is certainly in the right area.
cheers
John B
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Hi John,
Throwing this into the mix:
School Records show a Arthur Leslie/Leslie Arthur Hill born 29 June 1906, Ronald born 11 Nov 1899, Isabell May born 13 Feb 1903, Leonard born 31 Oct 1896, address Huiroa, parent being Mr A J Hill.
Cheers
KHP
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Sorry John,
Frederick?? I should have said Leonard. ::) It has been a long day................
Minniehaha.
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Hi KHP,
Nice to hear from you again ;)
Thanks for those school records, especially the birth date of Leonard. Unfortunately, I cannot see any birth at BDM anywhere near that date for a Leonard - Anderson or Hill. ???
There is a Leonard Mulholland birth with mother Elizabeth and father NR, but it was 12 Sep 1896. ::)
No problem, Minniehaha, I have those moments too (often)
John B
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and looks like Isabell May fits into the family nicely too, thanks KHP ;D
BDM show her parents as John and Elizabeth
John B
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John Hill down as Leonard's parent when they were living in Puniho in 1903, along with Roy born 8 Oct 1893, 1903 living in Pungarehu, and there happens to be an Annie born 18 Aug 1890 at that address
Interesting to note that on another record for Roy his birth has been transcribed as 8 Oct 1883, likewise with Leonard, 30th and 31st.
If you want to peruse these records and for your friend to have, PM your email address.
Cheers
KHP
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Thanks for the extra details KHP.
I went back to Stratford cemetery search and looked for a possible AJ Hill, rather than the John Hill searched for previously, based on those initials being given by the two sons for their Army enlistment, and also the school records, and BINGO ;D there is an Arthur John Hill buried at Kopuatama Cemetery (Stratford) and an Elizabeth in the same plot. Both died 1930 and less than a month apart.
Many Thanks to you all for your help with this enquiry.
John B
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Hi John
I have Information from family sources on Sydney Egmont HILL and Emma Belinda GORDON.
Parents, Siblings, and children. Includes some photos, - are you still looking for anything ?
Signal
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Hi All,
Thanks for your interest and endeavours
Our forebears didn't all live in a bed of roses
Here are two items of interest of the HILL Family from Papers Past which explain some of their circumstances.
Hawera & Normanby Star, Volume XXXIV, Issue 3804, 24 March 1898, Page 4
Magistrate's Court. Wednesday, March 23 1898.
Before Mr H. W. Northcroft, S.M.) CIVIL. MAINTENANCE.
Mary Hill (Mr Caplen) v. John Hill, Matthew Hill and George Hill (Mr Matthews). This was a claim under the Destitute Persons Act to compel defendant's to contribute towards the support of their widowed mother. The youngest son had kept her during tho last two years, but it was alleged that the three other sons had not contributed anything. Plaintiff was cross-examined at length by Mr Matthews. During the examination a number of family differences were ventilated, recapitulation of which is unnecessary. Edward Hill gave evidence for plaintiff. For the defence it was alleged that plaintiff had been offered a home by two of the defendants, and that she had refused to accept of it. Matthew Hill (a married man with 4 children) said he had offered to provide a home at Stony river for his mother, and had given her money at times. Geo. Hill also said he had offered his mother a home. She had lived with him 11 months. Had given her sums of money from time to time. His wife and his mother disagreeing was the cause of tho latter leaving. His Worship said, in reply to Mr Matthews, who submitted that it was a hardship to compel the defendants to pay for plaintiffs keep outside when they had offered her a home to go to, that it was only a gracious thing for them to do to let her stay where she liked when it was proved that she could not agree with her daughters-in-law. He ordered defendants to pay 5s a week each, to be paid monthly with Costs
[Mary was the Widow of Mathew HILL a onetime soldier]
Taranaki Herald, Volume XLVIII, Issue 11782, 27 March 1900, Page 2
Divorce Court. THIS DAY. Tuesday, March 27.— Before His Honor Mr Justice Conolly.
Hill v. Hill. This was the wife's petition on the grounds of desertion and adultery. Mr Weston (instructed by Mr Welsh) appeared for the petitioner. Respondent did not appear. The petitioner stated that she was married at 18 years of age to John Hill, on 25th July 1887, at Manaia. Her husband was a labourer. They lived together for some 18 months, at the end of which time she had to leave him. He afterwards made overtures for her to return, and she said she would do so after six months if he behaved himself. Before that time expired he was living with another woman, and these proceedings were started. In the meantime she had maintained herself by dressmaking. By His Honor She had not seen or heard from her husband for the last ten years. Constable Simpson gave evidence that a John Hill was living with a young woman near Normanby. There were four children. R. D. Welsh, solicitor, also gave evidence. His Honor said there were no grounds for the plea of desertion but on the ground of adultery he would grant a decree nisi, with costs against respondent on the lowest scale.
Here is the Family
1889/18970 Anderson Sydney Egmont Elizabeth NR
1890/9898 Anderson Annie Elizabeth NR
1967/46035 Hill John Mathew Royce 76Y (sometimes Roy)
1900/2320 Hill Ronald Elizabeth John
1903/10773 Hill Isabell May Elizabeth John (sometimes Isabelle)
1906/24695 Hill Arthur Leslie Elizabeth John
1910/26463 Hill Laurence George Elizabeth John
I have not been able to locate a NZBDM birth for John Mathew.
KHP - I do not have access to the school records can you PM me the full details you have
Thanks Signal
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Thanks for your help, Signal.
Further details sent per PM yesterday
John B
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Hi Spades,
Noticed your reply
Re: Charles Parmiter 1830- 18th Irish Reg of Foot « Reply #2 on: Monday 07 October 13 01:04 BST (UK) »
Hi Sally, :)
The book you're referring to is, Discharged in New Zealand. Soldiers of the Imperial Foot Regiments who took their discharge in New Zealand 1840-1870 (1988). I have this book on CD-ROM,
Thought you may be able to shed some light on the "first HILLs in NZ"
On Marriage printout of [A] John HILL (2nd Marriage - 1901) Mathew is recorded as Soldier
Grandparents of Sydney Egmont HILL
Surname: HILL
Forenames: Mathew
Last Address: Puniho (Labourer)
Age at Death: 64 Years
Date of Death: 28 Jul 1896
Category: Burial
Funeral Director: Not Available
Date of Burial: 30 Jul 1896
Thought to be [OKATO CEMETERY ]
NPDC
Probably born about 1832 Londonderry (or possibly Australia )
Married to Mary [thought to be nee ] BISHOP
Surname: HILL
Forenames: Mary
Last Address: Puniho (Widow)
Age at Death: 70 Years
Date of Death: 31 Aug 1904
Category: Burial
Funeral Director: Not Available
Date of Burial: 2 Sep 1904
Thought to be [OKATO CEMETERY]
NPDC
Probably born about 1834
Signal
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Hi Signal,
I found these two military references to a Matthew HILL:
Discharged in New Zealand. Soldiers of the Imperial Foot Regiments who took their discharge in New Zealand 1840-1870 (1988)
57th Regiment, p.38:
Regimental No.: 3255
Rank: Private
Name: HILL, Matthew
Birthplace: London
Trade (on enlistment): -
Date of Enlistment: -
Place of Discharge: NP (e.g. New Plymouth)
Date of Discharge: 28 Aug 1864
Type of Discharge: C (e.g. Completion of Engagement)
Ship: SQ (e.g. STAR QUEEN, dep. Bombay 23 Nov 1860, arr. New Plymouth 23 Jan 1861)
New Zealand Medal to Colonials. Detailed medal rolls of officers and men in colonial units who received the New Zealand Medal for service in the New Zealand Wars 1845-1872. (10th ed.) 2010.
Hawke’s Bay Cavalry Volunteers (this unit known by numerous other titles), p.53:
Name: HILL, Matthew
Rank: Trooper
Where joined unit and period of service: London (unsure if this should be address at time of
medal claim)
Rank & period of service with other units: -
Address at time of medal claim: -
Actions: Omarunui 12 October 1866
Date & place of Birth: -
Career (on enlistment): -
Date of death: -
Ship travelled to New Zealand: -
Year of Gazette notice: Gazette 1871
AD36/3 or Medal Register number: 1050
Archives NZ file reference: -
Spades
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Thanks Spades
The first one looks likely now to check arrival(s) in NZ
Signal
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For those of you watching and wondering
57th Regiment "Diehards" appears to be our Mathew.
Several of the family seem to have adopted the middle name Inkerman - the place where the Diehards nearly lost a battle in the Crimean War on 5 November 1854
Mathews Parents were
Mathew HILL Scottish Hotelkeeper and
Pinnie BROWN
Mathew's wife Mary TAHANA nee BISHOP was born (according to a Family Tree on line) 1833 in Stoke Dorset England. She arrived in Taranaki about 24th Feb 1842 (aged about 7)
her parents were
Daniel BISHOP (b about 1803, d 10 Jan 1880, buried St Lukes Burial Ground) and
Louisa COOMBES (b about 1810, d 10th May 1883, buried St Lukes Burial Ground)
How Mary came to have the name TAHANA on her marriage is a mystery. The Daniels resided at Hua [name of a Pa and a District ] or Waiwakaiho [now often Waiwhakaiho -a locality and river between Fitzroy and Bell Block]
There was a respected "friendly native" TAHANA sometimes Te TAHANA who was a Native Assessor [akin to a Justice of the Peace who sat in some Courts alongside a magistrate] residing at Hua Pa.
It was probably his son who was Wiremu TAHANA
Did Mary the eldest daughter adopt the name out of respect or was there more of a relationship ?
Taranaki Herald, Volume V, Issue 233, 10 January 1857, Page 1
FOR SALE
FIFTY acres of LAND in the Hua block, part fern and part bush. Apply to Wiremu Tahana, Te Hua, or to G. Bishop, Waiwakaiho,
Mathew died at Puniho 28 Jul 1896 and Mary died at Puniho 31 Aug 1904
Both are buried at Okato Cemetery Both show four male and four female living issue at date of death. There are Females born (1) between 1862 & 1865 and (3) between 1870 & 1873 for whom no names have been found. It is possible that these are Maori or unregistered Births and may have been children of Mary but not Mathew.
Signal
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Many Thanks to Signal and spades for the extra help and details.
I'll pass it all on :)
John B
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1st Marriage of Mary Bishop found. Don't know how I missed it several times
1855/1123 Mary Bishop Wiremu Tahana [1 Jun 1855]
But how did it end ? Wiremu was apparently alive and well 21 months later
Taranaki Herald, 21 March 1857
FOR SALE
FIFTY acres of LAND in the Hua block, part fern and part bush.
Apply to Wiremu Tahana, Te Hua, or to G. Bishop, Waiwakaiho.
- and who was G Bishop
Signal
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Have just joined RootsChat and saw this thread. I have a lot of information on Matthew Hill and Mary Bishop/Tahana, including Matthew's military record from the UK. This thread closed nearly a year ago so I don't want to post stuff nobody needs.
Matthew Hill was my 3x great-grandfather.
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Hi Aunty Marg
You may well have some material not known to my part of the Hill Family
I have been puzzled in particular by how Mary TAHANA nee BISHOP became free to marry Matthew HILL
I think you need to make two more posts to become eligible to send and receive Personal Messages so post away
Signal
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This thread is ancient history now, but I'm working on my DNA connection to a large cluster of cousins who all seem to be connected to this Matthew Hill who died at Puniho, almost all with Māori ancestry. I haven't figured out how I'm connected to him.
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Hi Taonga
I have looked for descendants of Mathew in my family tree
I have only found four with names you list
1 Robert Robinson who was the second husband/partner of Hetti Patricia GORDON - neither of them blood relatives of Mathew
2 Jane Christian FLETCHER who married Arthur Robert LILEWALL - neither of them blood relatives of Mathew
3 Athol Ross WHITE who married Valmai BARTON - neither of them blood relatives of Mathew
4 George Rothwell WHITE who married a grand neice of Arthur John HILL (Mathew's oldest son so also not blood relatives of Mathew
Mathew joined the 58th Regiment who fort in the Crimean War and became the Diehards. The regiment came from there to Taranaki.
Mathew was he second husband of Mary BISHOP. Mary's first husband was Wiremu TAHANA from Bell Block vicinity near New Plymouth. We think that Mary had one or more children with Wiremu in the 5 years they were together and one Eliza seems to have become part of Mathew's family. There is also a suggestion of another TAHANA known as Polly
The other Maori Kin in the Family tree are GORDONs Mathew's Grandson Sidney Egmont HILL married Emma Belinda GORDON a grand-daughter of John GORDON and Rina TE AKAU from Otaki. Rina was Te Arawa from HoroHoro near Rotorua and came to Otaki with TE RAUPARAHA.