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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Vanessa on Tuesday 14 June 05 16:52 BST (UK)
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Could some kind person look up 1861 or 1871 Gloucester.
Looking for Frederick FREEMAN born abt 1860 Gloucester
Fathers name Joseph. I'm afraid thats all the info I have.
Thank you in advance
Vanessa
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Hi Vanessa
At the moment he's only showing in 1891 and 1901 ??? If you need him then as well let me know and I'll post details. Will keep looking.
Regards Jan ;)
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Hi Vanessa
He is not showing up on either census I'm afraid. Do you have him on later censuses? Names of siblings or wife, occupation in later life, anything that would help. Did the family move from Gloucestershire at some stage?
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi again Vanessa
The Frederick who seems to fit for 1891 and 1901 is Frederick H in Cirencester , there is a Henry Freeman, which could be the same chap, in 1861 in Cirencester but his father is Frederick not Joseph. What do you think?
??? :-\ Jan
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Hi again Jan
His name is Frederick Henry Freeman, as its on my Grandfathers Birth certificate.
On his Marriage certificate 1885 he is only Frederick aged 24 and his father Joseph Freeman is deceased at the time.
I am sure he must have had brothers or sisters, don't know their names.
Not sure if any of this is much help
Regards Vanessa
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Sorry the Henry is in 1871 not 61. He is shown as Henry E in 1861 so probably not yours, he does have a brother Frederick H but he is 10 in 1861 ??? :-\ Otherwise nothing else doing.
Jan ;)
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What is Joseph's occupation on the marriage certificate - maybe he had a middle name as well ???
Jan
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Found two more Henrys in 1861 both have fathers called Henry - so 3 Henrys of right age in 1861, but only 2 showing ::) in 1871 one is the Henry E so not yours, one Henry J so not yours either no third Henry no Frederick either >:(. In 1891 and 1901 2 Henrys and the Frederick H who I think may well be yours. I'll see what 1881 turns up.
No Frederick in 1881 >:( but now 4 Henrys >:( >:( one of which is married to a Sarah the other a lodger and single. The birthplace of the Henrys changes each census ::)
Jan ;D
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Hi Vanessa
The marriage certificate ................. date/place/address/occupation/father's occuaption/marriage witnesses .............. please :)
All or any of these details just may help somebody locate him for you.
Could you please be a bit more specific as to what census years you have found him in?
Best wishes
Casalguidi
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Hi Casalguidi
The marriage certificate
27 Feb 1885 Cirencester register office.
Frederick Freeman 24 living at Stepstairs Lane Cirencester occupation Musician (I believe he was a bandsman in the Army before marriage) Father Joseph Freeman Deceased occupation Labour.
Leah Palmer 23 living at Stepstairs Lane Cirencester no occupation Father William Palmer occupation gardener
Witnesses: Leo/Geo Gostling and M J Parsons.
1891 Census
Frederick H Freeman Head M 30 Stationary Engine Driver Born Gloucester
Leah J Freeman Wife M 29 Born Stow on the Wold
With children
Address 4 Concrete Cottages Stepstair Lane Cirencester
1901
Frederic Freeman 41 born Glos Gloucester living in Cirencester Engine driver Bacon Factory.
I don't have the full details.
Leah Jane Palmer born sept quarter 1859 Stow on the Wold
In 1881 Census
Leah Palmer U 22 Serv Domestic Serv Housemaid born Stow on the Wold
Address Saint Aldwyns Flockton Road Lewisham Kent
I hope this may help someone locate him
I did find a Frederick Henry Freeman born dec quarter 1859 at Medway Kent. When I sent for the birth certificate the fathers name wasn't Joseph, so I haven't brought it yet. It could be him not sure. Any suggestions
Best Regards
Vanessa
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I have just "walked" Stepstairs Lane in 1881 and none of your rellies seem to be there.
Just so nobody else does it. :)
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No Frederick FREEMAN on Gordon Beavington's 1851/ 61/ 71 census index for Gloucestershire.
Several Josephs, none in Gloucester itself.
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Checked 1861 and 1871 Channel Islands and Wales for FREEMAN.
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Vanessa
In 1871 and 81 there is a Henry Freeman living in Barrow Gloucs born Barrow circa 1864 with father Joseph a farm labourer. Happy to post details if you think that could be him.
Cheers Jan ;)
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Hi
have found a FREDK FREEMAN age 3 born Bristol, Glos on the 1861 census his mother is listed as SOPHIA FREEMAN and it says she is the wife of GEORGE SAUNDERS?
other freeman children areGeorge, James, Mary Martha & Rees
any use ??
rgds joanne
just goin to check these folk on the 71
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I've checked Joseph's of a likely age in 1871 living in Gloucestershire but there are no more with sons called Henry/Frederick of right age.
Jan ;)
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Hi
in 1871 Sophia is now listed as SOPHIA F SAUNDERS , THE children are listed as
REES SAUNDERS, JAMES SAUNDERS & what has been transcribed by ancestry as FROST SAUNDERS aged 13 ( looking at the actual census, i see why ?), this could be FRED, and Emily saunders who was born abt 1866
looks like hey changed the surname from Freeman to Saunders
Rgds
Joanne
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Whereabouts is the Barrow you mention Jo?
If it is Barrow Wake, that is quite near Gloucester (4 1/2 miles SE.)
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Hi Arranroots
It's Barrow, Boddington. Henry's birthplace is given as Boddington in 1871 and Barrow in 1881
Jan ;)
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Hi Jo
I also came across the Sophia Freeman in 1861, however enlarge image to max and there's a Do after Freeman. So her surname is Sanders/Saunders :(
Jan ;)
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Barrow nr Boddington is about 5 miles NE of Gloucester.
Jan ;)
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Hi Jan
this is how ancestry have them listed, do you think im barking up the wrong tree ? ???
Susan Bowden abt 1833 Bedminster, Somerset, England Visitor Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
Angelina Stevens Carter abt 1840 Bristol, St Michael Daughter Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
Jane Carter abt 1853 Mynth, Hampshire, England Visitor Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
Wm Thos Carter abt 1831 London, Middlesex, England Visitor Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
Fredk Freeman abt 1858 Bristol Son Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
George Freeman abt 1849 Bristol Son Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
James Freeman abt 1860 Bristol Son Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
Mary Martha Freeman abt 1837 Feniton, Devon, England Sister Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
Rees Freeman abt 1853 Bristol Son Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
Sophia Freeman abt 1826 Bristol Wife Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
John Levell abt 1813 Payeunbury, Devon, England Head Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
Mary Levell abt 1818 Devon, England Wife Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
Jane Rich abt 1853 Keynsham, Somerset, England Visitor Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
Francis Richards abt 1817 Dunkirk, Devon, England Head Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
Martha Richards abt 1817 Bristol, St Paul Wife Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
Ann Roberts abt 1811 Fishponds, Gloucestershire, England Lodger Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
George Saunders abt 1826 Feniton, Devon, England Head Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
Mary White abt 1847 Bristol Servant Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
Mary Williams abt 1811 Partbury, Gloucestershire, England Visitor Bristol St Michael Gloucestershire
rgds joanne
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My only concern is that Boddington is much nearer Cheltenham and you would be much more likely to say you were from chelt than Gloucester if you chose the nearest big place.
Having said that, I live in a village and it comes under Tewkesbury (as I believe does Boddington these days!!) ??? ;D
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Hi Jo
I thought they were a good bet at first, but Ancestry have indexed them wrong by missing the Do after Sophia Freeman :'( Have a look with the image enlarged to max. Pretty sure I'm not seeing things ::) ;D
Regards Jan ;)
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Hi Arranroots
See what you mean. Barrow is nearer to the main road to Gloucester though so maybe ??? :-\ This fellow is proving most elusive ::)
Jan ;)
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hI jan
Have looked and i thought the do was under the Freeman bit . :o Its a pity we don't know Frederick's mother's name. suppose we will have to wait for Vanessa to come online, ???
regards joanne ;)
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Hi All
I am on line and getting quite confused,
I'm afraid I don't know Fredericks mothers name
I'll stay on line for a while for any questions.
Vanessa
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Hi Vanessa - look what we've done to your family!
You say you don't have the full details for 1901 so here they are:
RG13/2448 129 4
FREEMAN Frederick H H M 41 - engine driver bacon factory - Glos Gloucester
FREEMAN Leah J W M 40 - Stow on the Wold
FREEMAN Madelisne M (sic) dau 15 - Cirencester
FREEMAN Frederick W H son 14 - milk boy - ditto
FREEMAN Leah Maria dau 12 - ditto
FREEMAN Lilian dau 11 - ditto
FREEMAN Eugene son 8 - ditto
FREEMAN Winifred dau 3 - ditto
FREEMAN Elsie dau 1 - ditto
FREEMAN John son 4 months - ditto
Address: 1 Mount Terrace, Chesterton, Cirencester, Gloucs
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Vanessa
Sorry if we're confusing you. Basically we haven't definitely found him. No Frederick Freemans born Gloucs living Gloucs are showing at all. That's why I've been chasing Henrys incase he was known by his second name. I've also looked for Josephs but only found the one with a son Henry roughly the right age. Also found this gentleman in 1881 but not in 1871.
Henry Freeman abt 1858 Sherdington, Gloucestershire Lodger Brook Street 4 Bellgrove Terrace, Gloucester Barton St Mary, Gloucestershire
Think I've found him in 1861 but his father is Henry not Joseph although he is a labourer. ???
Jan
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Hi Vanessa
to confuse matters totally think ive just found your LEAH IN 1871, want the details
rgds joanne
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Joanne - I would like the details for Leah - thank you
Arranroots - Thank you for the 1901 details.
Its quite likley the Freeman family could be used to using second names or something completely different.
John 4 months 1901 must be my grandfather, I have his birth cert. 12th sept 1901 - 1 Mount Terrace Chesterton Lane Cirencester but he is Robert Henry, not John .
Regards
Vanessa
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I found this family in Prior's Norton 1851. That's between Boddington and Gloucester. Not sure if it helps.. ;D ???
FREEMAN Joseph 36 Ag Lab Leigh
Elizabeth 34 Ag Lab Norton
David Thomas 11 Norton
Mary Ann 8 Norton
Julia 6 Norton
Emma 4 Norton
James 1 Norton
copyright Gordon Beavington etc
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1871 rg10/2646 folio 149 page 22
FACTORY YARD, CIRENCESTER
WILLIAM PALMER, HEAD, 38, LABOURER, BORN CIRENCESTER
ANN PALMER, WIFE, 34, BORN CIRENCESTER
LEAH PALMER, DAUGHTER,11 BORN CIRENCESTER
EMILY PALMER, DAUGHTER, 8, BORN CIRENCESTER
FREDERICK PALMER, SON, 5, BORN CIRENCESTER
WILLIAM PALMER, 5 MONTHS, BORN CIRENCESTOR
There were two other Leah Palmer's in Gloucestershire, this was the only one with father called William
RGDS JOANNE
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Thank you Joanne
Yes thats the Palmers
Vanessa
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1861
RG9/1782 FOLIO 117 PAGE 21
GLOUCESTER STREET CIRENCESTER (THE ADDRESS ON THE 71 WAS GIVEN AS THIS TOO)
WILLIAM PALMER, HEAD, 27, LABOURER(AGRICULTURAL), BORN BOULTON ON THE WOLD
ANN PALMER, WIFE, 24, BORN CIRENCESTER
LEAH PALMER, DAUGHTER, 1, BORN STOW ON THE WOLD
Rgds joanne
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Thank you Joanne
Thats them again. I have found William in 1851 as well born Bourton on the Water.
Still not sure what to do about Frederick have you any suggestions?
Vanessa
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Hi Vanessa, why not drop a letter and cheq to the registrar office that hold his birth cert, you have an approx date of his birth from his marriage cert, give as much info as poss, including his fathers details.
if they don'tfind it they will return the cheq
rgds
joanne
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BTW Jo, your 1871 is better than you suggest as it states Leah born Stow.
At least that explains why they ended up in Ciren!
;)
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Thank you for all your help
Not sure what register office to send to. I am living in France. Would it be gloucester?
Regards
Vanessa
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Hi Vanessa
Yes, Gloucester office. You will find their details online.
Your grandfather would not have been born at the time of the census in 1901 - it was taken in March (forget the exact date). You will have to wait for the 1911 census to see him, I'm afraid!
;)
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Thank you all once again for you help
Vanessa
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this is the link for the reg districts in gloucestershire
http://www.fhsc.org.uk/genuki/REG/gls.htm
joanne
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Hi Vanessa
Could you post 1851 details for William Palmer - where was he living? parents or siblings with him? I'll try looking for him in 1841. Ann too if you know maiden name.
I'll post the family I found in Barrow as it is the best match I can find, in case they do turn out to be yours. Best of luck with your continued search, let us know how you get on.
;) Jan
1871
Barrow, Boddington
Joseph Freeman Head Mar 49 Labourer Boddington
Sarah Freeman Wife Mar Wife ? Rostbury (the ? is the enumerators not mine, no county given)
Albert Freeman Son 12 Boddington
Martha Do Daur 10 Boddington
Henry Do Son 7 Boddington
Ann Do Daur 3 Boddington
RG10/2676 ED10 Folio114 Pg6
1881
Barrow Boddington
Joseph Freeman Head Mar 59 Farm labourer Gloucs Barrow
Sarah Freeman Wife Mar 57 Household Work Gloucs Pristbury
Albert Do Son Unm 22 Farm Labourer Barrow
Martha Do Daur Unm 19 Plain server Barrow
Henry Do Son Unm 17 Farm Labourer Barrow
Annie Do Daur 13 Scholar Barrow
RG11/2579 ED24 Folio130 Pg4
1861
Boddington Manor, Boddington
Joseph Freeman Head Mar 39 Ag Lab Boddington
Sarah Freeman Wife Mar 36 Gloshire (sic) Prestbury
Alice Do Daur 6 Boddington
Hannah Do 5 Boddington
Albert Do Son 2 Boddington
RG9/1804 ED96 Folio1 Pg4
and for good measure in 1841
Boddington
Henry Freeman 45 Ag Lab Yes
Edith Freeman 45 Yes
Joseph Freeman 15 Yes
HO107-0367 ED10 Folio8 Pg11
Shame if they're nothing to do with you :'(
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Hi Jan
Thank you for the Freemans. I shall try sending to Gloucester Registry office for Frederick birth cert.
The 1851 details for William Palmer:
Stow on the Wold 1851 (no address)
PALMER Rosanna 26 U emp at home Chedworth
" Thomas 21 brother U ag Lab Bourton on the water
" William 19 brother U ag Lab Bourton on the water
" Elizabeth 15 sister U emp at home Borton on Water
HUMPHRIES Hanna lodger 70 emp at home Condicott
I am quite sure William Palmers parents were John & Racheal
1851 Chedworth
Rachel Palmer Visitor w 55 Chedworth
Staying with a PEACHY family
1861 Stow on the Wold
PALMER Racheal w 66 alms house pauper Chedworth
" Rosanna 33 ag Lab Chedworth
" John 4 grandson scholar Stow on the Wold
I hope this will make it easier for you
Many thanks
Vanessa
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Hi again Jan
Just found out that William Palmer married Dec Quater 1858 Cirencester to Ann TOWNSEND.
Best Regards
Vanessa
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Hi Vanessa
Here they are in 1841
Well Lane, Stow on the Wold
Rachel Palmer 40 Laundress Yes
Rose do 17 Y
Ann do 15 Y
Thomas do 12 Y
Wm do 9 Y
Elizabeth do 6 Y
Hannah Humphries 60 Y (living in same house but marked as separate household)
HO107-0366 ED2 Folio36 Pg26
And this is hopefully your Ann and parents
Cricklade Street, Cirencester
Henry Townsend 30 Labourer Y
Ann do 30 Y
George do 14 Y
Harriet do 12 Y
Ester do 10 Y
Ann do 4 Y
Thomas do 1 Y
HO107-0380 ED2 Folio35 Pg16
Happy searching ;) Jan
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Hi Ann
I'm sure thats Ann and family any chance you can find them in 1851 for me.
Thank you again for all your help
Best Regards
Vanessa
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Hi Vanessa
Sorry I haven't got access to 1851. If you post a 1851 lookup request I expect someone will be able to help. I will see if I can find them in 1861.
Cheers Jan ;)
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There you go.
Cheers Jan ;)
1861
Gloucester St, Cirencester
Henry Townsend Head Mar 50 Agricultural labourer Wilts ?Ewer
Ann Townsend Wife Mar 56
Thomas do Son Unm 21 Agricultural labourer
Maria do daur 10
Charles do son 13
Ann and children born Cirencester
RG9/1782 ED7 Folio118 Pg23
1871
Factory Yard, Cirencester
Henry Townsend Head Mar 68 Labourer
Ann Townsend Wife Mar 67
Thomas Townsend Son Unm 31 Labourer
RG10/2646 ED7 Folio150 Pg24
All born Cirencester. Henry appears a little confused about his age and where born ??? ::)
Factory Yard seems to be off Gloucester St
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Thanks Jan
Vanessa
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Hi again Jan
Do you think you could just check the 1871 census for Evesham Glos for Frederick. I have just applied for a birth cert for Frederick Freeman born sept quater 1862 Evesham, hoping it will come back with Father as Joseph Freeman.
Thanks Vanessa
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Hi Vanessa
The only Frederick Freeman born in Evesham area is this one
Frederick Freeman Son 8 Farmers boy born Hinton, Gloucs and living in Hinton on the Green.
His father is also Frederick and in any case he is still in Hinton in 1891 and 1901.
Sorry. :'(
Jan
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Thanks Jan
Thats probably the Frederick's birth cert I was just about to apply for. Glad I haven't posted it off yet.
I have been through 1837 online, can't seem to come up with anything.
I suppose its a dead end not sure where to look next.
Best Regards
Vanessa
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Hi
It is a difficult one. Trouble is he may not have been registered as Frederick, maybe that name came later and he only started to use it when he got older :-\ My mother in law is always known as Betty but she is registered as Ruth Mary ??? I also have a Hannah who married under the name of Mary Ann ??? ;D
Sometimes imagine a lot of ancestors having a good chuckle as we struggle to locate them.
Hope you find him ;D Have a good feeling about the Henry (you probably don't want to spend £7 on the strength of my feelings though ;D ;D ).
Jan ;)
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Thanks Jan
I'll keep searching for him. I'll try Henry
see what turns up
Vanessa
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Hi Vanessa
Please forget my good feelings about Henry born Boddington/Barrow, I've just found him in 1891 :'( I will continue looking.
Jan hoping you haven't sent off for that certicate :-[