RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: trelawn1984 on Tuesday 20 August 13 11:24 BST (UK)
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I found out via the census the other day that my 3xgreat grandfather was born in Germany. It seems to have been common knowledge that the family was German somewhere along the line although nobody knew more than that. The only information I have is that Henry Sheer was born somewhere in Germany around 1841 and was living in Ireland by 1869 when he married Margaret Lester. I would love to find out where he was born, who his parents were and when he came to Ireland. Any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Amy
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Not a "hard information" but a thought for further searching:
I think his name could have been SCHIER.
SHEER in english sounds like the german name SCHIER.
SHEER would be spoken in german like SHARE in english, which would be written SCHÄR, SCHAER or SCHEER.
So if he came to Britain and said "my name is Schier" and the listeners heard SHEER, then that's what he was probably called from then on.
HENRY was probably originally HEINRICH, so when searching in Germany, keep an eye out for these possible variations, in particular HEINRICH SCHIER
Bob
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The place to start looking for records is Ireland- won't help with a location in Germany, when he came to Ireland or mother's name but his marriage certificate should list father's name and occupation-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYST-N23
Just in case you don't have them- some children of Henry Sheer & Margaret Lester born Ireland:
Henry Adam (1871 Belfast) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPYG-THK
Margaret Louisa (1873) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGPV-N75
Mary (1875 Dublin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5WM-J7L
Stephen Jacob (1878 Dublin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FG6Y-MZH
Julia (1881 Dublin) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGX9-XS8
Possibly your Henry Sheer in Prison (1868 Dublin)-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KM3L-MNN
and here (1868, for assault- possibly same offense as above)-
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KMQL-46F
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Just filling in some more of the Irish details-
Baptisms
Mary 1875- http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/0897a70343559
Margaret Louisa 1878- http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/b2a2130345749
Stephen Jacob 1879- http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/2092df0345985
Another child-
Eliza Philomena 1877- http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/b5340d0344916
Baptism of a Lester child in 1868 with Henry Shears as sponsor (before his marriage to Margaret Lester)-
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ec95910338925
Added- baptism of John E[d]ward Shire (parents Henry Shire & Margaret Lester) in May 1869
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/8b063a0339454
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1911 census adds another son, James- very sad to see that Henry was a widower, had 10 children but only 2 living (which can't be correct since Henry Adam's still alive (below) so perhaps he meant 2 children living at home)-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Wood_Quay/Bride_Street/63239
(and signature is 'Sheares')
Son Henry [Adam] born Belfast- in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Kingstown_No__3/White_s_Court/93676
1901 census shows Henry with the 2 sons & daughter Julia- but his birthplace listed as Dublin city not Germany-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Wood_Quay/Bride_Street/1345704
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Thank you all so much! I had some of the children but not all. Henry Adam is my dad's great grandad. Aghadowey, I believe Henry's place of birth is listed as Germany on the 1911 census but not on 1901. Berlin Bob thanks for the help with possible name translations. I'll keep at it so, first stop: prison records :)
Amy
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Armed with berlin bob's suggestions of name variations I went and checked heinrich schier out on familysearch. I got two possibilities one of which was Heinrich Schehr born 1841 in Bavaria father listed as Jakob Schehr. One of my Henry's sons was Stephen Jacob and another was Jacob. I went to the GRO today and got Henry and Margaret's marriage cert and Henry's father is listed as Jacob. So a definite possiblity. Thanks for all the help and advice!
Amy.
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Well, if it's the Heinrich from Rothselberg then my relatives only live about 5 miles away and I've probably driven through there! Small world :D
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That's him! wow it is a small world. I've been to Germany a few times, where exactly is Rothselberg?
Amy
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It's about 12 miles or so north of Kaiserslautern- just google 'Rothselberg Germany' and click on the map to see the location. Really lovely place!
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Hi there
Delighted to find your info about Henry Sheer as Ice just discovered a family connection.
Margaret Lester was the daughter of my great x 3 aunt Louisa Rigoli (Regan). I was already sure that the Sheers and Lesters were connected to my family given common addresses and vocations. I had been thinking that both Lesters and Sheers were also Italian families - now I’m wondering if the Lesters may also have been German. If anyone has any info on the Lesters Id love to see it.
Henry was a musician wasn’t he? At one point he was at 17 Chancery Lane whwre one of my gx3 grandfathers Jacapo Chevereni - an organ grinder - lived for a while. And Louis Rolleri another organ grinder who married Margaret Rigoli - another great x 3 aunt - lived a few doors down at the same time.
Cheers
Dan
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I noticed that a Julia Sheer appears on this list of ‘aliens’ living in Dublin compiled during WWi even though she was born in Ireland.
http://www.familyhistory.ie/docs/aliens/Aliens.pdf
Year of birth suggests it could be Henry’s daughter. But why would she have been on the list i wonder?
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I noticed that a Julia Sheer appears on this list of ‘aliens’ living in Dublin compiled during WWi even though she was born in Ireland.
http://www.familyhistory.ie/docs/aliens/Aliens.pdf
Year of birth suggests it could be Henry’s daughter. But why would she have been on the list i wonder?
Interesting as she's also listed as a British Subject (as well as being listed as a German national). Perhaps her ancestry was known and therefore her allegiance was called into question?
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Is this what you have:
Birth
30 May 1841
Frankelbach, Kaiserslautern, Palatinate, Bavaria, Germany
Parents
Jakob Scheer
Male
1805–Deceased
Philippina Hennchen
Female
1811–Deceased
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I noticed that a Julia Sheer appears on this list of ‘aliens’ living in Dublin compiled during WWi even though she was born in Ireland.
http://www.familyhistory.ie/docs/aliens/Aliens.pdf
Year of birth suggests it could be Henry’s daughter. But why would she have been on the list i wonder?
Interesting as she's also listed as a British Subject (as well as being listed as a German national). Perhaps her ancestry was known and therefore her allegiance was called into question?
Lots of questions here. Her family had been in Dublin for about 50 years and she was born there. Her father was still alive as were at least three of her siblings but none of them were targetted. Unless they were all elsewhere by 1914. Not sure...
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are you aware of this family:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=511835.msg7278003#msg7278003
George Schlicker was also a musician and from very close to where Henry came from. They may have arrived together. They certainly knew each other as they were in Chancery Lane at the same time.
Interestingly there was a settlement of Germans from the same region the Palatinate in Wexford and Limerick in the early 17th century.
https://www.irishpalatines.org/about/history.html
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You might want to look into whether
the Schehr/Scheer family had precious connections to Ireland. Shire is one of the names associated with German families from the Palatinate (where Henry came from) who settled in Ireland - mainly Wexford and Limerick - in early 18rh century.
This is an interesting read:
https://www.libraryireland.com/matheson/report/german-palatine-names.php
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That's him! wow it is a small world. I've been to Germany a few times, where exactly is Rothselberg?
Amy
Useful context here.
It seems Rothselberg was one of the main hubs of the travelling musician tradition that in 19th century :
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Palatine_travelling_music_tradition
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And the post from frifra here is interesting
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=327671.9
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Well, if it's the Heinrich from Rothselberg then my relatives only live about 5 miles away and I've probably driven through there! Small world :D
According to Henry himself he was from Frankelbach which is about 6 miles from Rothselberg. http://www.familyhistory.ie/docs/aliens/Aliens.pdf
Also says he arrived in Dublin via Liverpool in 1867.
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And the post from frifra here is interesting
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=327671.9
As I said in 2013, my relatives live in the area. My great-grandfather, born 1869, left as a teenager in play in a German band in America for the summer along with a cousin and other local young men/boys. At the end of the season they discovered that 1) their wages hadn't been sent home to their families as promised and 2) the man in charge took off with their money leaving them all stranded in New York City. Luckily my great-grandfather had an older brother in N.Y. The cousin joined the U.S. military and became a very well known bandmaster.
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Dan, thanks so much for the info.. I took a genealogy hiatus for a while. But it is interesting to read about the Italian link. I knew they were musicians. Henry and Margaret's son, Henry Adam was an organ grinder and married Nora Grady, a street musician. I will definitely need to look more into this part of the family. Nice to know Margaret's mam and granddad's names. Also to know that Henry came here via Liverpool.
Thanks again,
Amy