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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: JoTolond on Sunday 18 August 13 13:40 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I've been trying to trace the Tolond family history, but have come to a halt as one of my relatives is only mentioned on his son's birth certificate once and then appears to vanish. I know he died, because his wife re-married and said she was a widow.
But I can't find a marriage or death certificate for him :(
I think he died between 1870-1873 and was a mariner merchant, so he might have died at sea. Are there any particular records I should have a look at?
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Welcome to rootschat!
What is the date & place of birth of the son whose birth certificate he is named on?
If you want specific help on this person, you will need to give his name, name of wife & their approximate dates of birth, name of son & any censuses you have found him on [preferably with the census reference].
For general help - the sites most commonly used [free] freebmd, county bmd sites, familysearch.org [pay] findmypast - who have deaths at sea & other 'abroad' events, ancestry & NBI for burials. Some RC mambers have local family history parish records transcriptions on CD.
Josey
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Have you checked out the wife? Could she have been Miss Toland and gave birth to an illegitimate son.
Mr Toland could have been an invention of hers, in which case you would not find the marriage or his death. When she married it would be a simple thing to state she was a widow rather than a spinster.
Have you found a baptism for Baby Toland?
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Hi Jo
Have just sent you a pm. I have sent you my email address in the pm.
Jean :)
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Hi Jo,
I'm interested in your Tolond roots as I am descended from Hannah Toland (a variant) b c 1818-1826 in Strabane, Ireland. She was married in Donegal in 1845 to James Mellon but moved over to Scotland & England around 1848 as their son Michael (my g grandfather) was b in Scotland 1848 & his younger siblings Ann & Catherine (no birth records found) were born Manchester c1850 & c1853 respectively according to census records.
Would be interesting to find a connection as the name is not common :-)
Annie
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Hi Annie
I'm Jo's cousin and we are very short of info about Thomas Tolond/Toland/Tolland. I think he was lost at sea in 1869 but I can't say for sure other than someone with his name was missing presumed dead at this time and as you say it is a rare name. It would be interesting to find a connection but we don't have enough information to trace his Irish family.
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Hi,
Where did you find the info. regarding "missing, presumed dead" ?
What paper or other source was it in ?
What area was his normal place of residence at the time he was missing ?
What exactly did the article state ?
Annie
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A man of the same name appears in the maritime deaths of find my past in 1869, there are no family details, it just says his ship was the Golden Pledge which according to newspaper reports of the time went missing in bad weather. There are no reports regarding the crew.
There doesn't seem to be way of proving that this man was our relative other than an uncommon name and he was on a ship sailing from Liverpool and wife was a widow in 1871.
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Hi,
Have you looked for a recorded death in the area of his normal place of residence with variants of the spelling of his surname ?
Only trying to help :-)
Annie
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Hi Annie
I really appreciate your help, if my last post seems a bit terse it's because I was interrupted when writing it ::)
I've tried different ways of spelling his name, (his name comes up as Toaland in the marriage index because he seemed to have trouble writing his name and messed it up), when I found the man with the same name on Find My Past I thought I had made a breakthrough, I think it is highly likely to be him but I can't find any proof.
Jean
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I just didn't want you thinking all sorts with my questions :-)
I have a Mariner in my tree (father of my Michael Mellon's wife) & found info. on him on National Archives site just by typing in his name if I remember & was able to download his papers for about £3.50 ish.
Annie
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Jean,
You haven't said what area yet?
People need info. to try to trace Thomas :-)
Annie
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Hi Annie
He lived in Liverpool then on the Wirral but the record on Find My past is from the National Archives some of their records have been digitalised. I'm guessing that if his body wasn't recovered then there were no personal effects recovered and the sparse details came from information that was registered about the crew of the ship. I'm not an expert on maritime records but when I've investigated there seems to be variables to do with time periods and whether all the records were actually kept.
Jean
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Jean,
The info. I have from NA is paperwork with quite a lot of details such as parent's, his birthdate etc.
Will send them by PM.
Annie
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the name is in Liverpool 1810 era
Marriage: 20 Aug 1810 St Anne Richmond, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Patrick Toland - Painter, Liverpool
Lydia Roberts - Widow, the same parish
Witness: John Foulds; Thos. Holden
Married by Banns by: Wm Blundell Minr.
just wondering if this is any connection to him , - seeing as it was Liverpool he went to ???
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No central Personal Merchant Navy records were kept between 1857 and 1913. Personal records for the years of the First World War have been destroyed.
Effectively the only personal information that can be obtained between those dates, is from the vessels crew agreement. This should give last address, NOK, previous ship, rank etc. All British and Empire ships crew agreements are cataloged by the vessels official number.
GOLDEN PLEDGE official number 50572.
It would seem that all her crew agreements have been lost, destroyed or miscatalogued.
see http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=50572
I have checked out the TNA catalogue and the NMM. Nothing there.
GOLDEN PLEDGE was owned and registered in Leith. Maybe the local newspaper may give some indication of the crew.
I have also searched the Crew Agreements on FindMyPast. Again nothing.
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Jean,
When roughly was Thomas Tolond born, where & have you found him on any census with other family members as your info. is a bit vague ? :-)
Who was his wife, marriage date & place, kids names etc.
Annie
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Hi everyone
Garstonite - Thanks for that info, I can't link it to my ancestor but I will make a note of it, I know from his marriage cert his father was also Thomas and it was said in the family that he was from Ireland.
Seaweed - Thank you so much for doing those checks for me. I will check on the National Library of Scotland website to see if there is a mention in a local paper.
Annie - Have sent you an email message
Jean :)