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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: corinthian on Sunday 18 August 13 09:51 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am trying to trace the whereabouts of William Allen & Rebecca Forsythe who married in Lisburn,Co.Antrim in 1872. I have traced serveral children via the FamilySearch website & have also traced the family in the 1901 Irish census,living at 44,Castle St,Lisburn. William is recorded as a grocer & they have six children. I have been unable to trace their whereabouts after 1901 & wondered if anyone could enlighten me.
Regards
Coreen
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1901 census- www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Lisburn/Castle_Street/1000816
Gerald (1873) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGRM-G83
Athol (1874) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5V1-ND8 [Ethel]
Robert** (1876) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGFH-1Y9
William Edward (1879) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRQ3-399
** address given as Castle St. which means he was born elsewhere but that was the family's residence. Might be worth checking the online Valuation Revision Books (www.proni.gov.uk) to get an idea of when they moved from Castle St.
Will continue searching for them after 1901...
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An Ethel Laura Allen married 1908 (Lisburn district) Robert Fenning- but 1911 census shows her born in England so we can probably eliminate her-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Lisburn/Young_Street/200565
Found a Gerald Allen (age 17, b.Ireland) as a scholar in 1891 census living in Edinburgh- not sure yet if this is son Gerald born 1873). Can't see a death for Gerald in Ireland or him in 1901 and 1911 Irish census.
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Had a look at Valuation book which covers 1911 and can't find William Allen on Castle Street so I went back a book since we know he was there in 1901.
1901- William Allen (house, office, yard, garden) [near 'Johnstons Entry (closed) intersects']
next entry was for a Samuel Miller (shop & rooms over)
A few entries above was John E. Reilly and I did find him in 1901 so took a look at House & Building Return which shows 3 uninhabited properties (shops) in that area-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Lisburn/Castle_Street/201184
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001576177/
Now for a try with online directories-
1901- Allen, Wm., grocer, fruiterer, etc., 19 Castle Street
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/PT1901L1.htm
1907- not listed under Lisburn
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Hi,
Thanks for help. I did look at Ethel Laura,but as you say she's probably not the correct Ethel. Am having a look for William at Castle Street via the Valuation Revision Books but have had no luck so far.It's possible that the family emigrated but I have been unable to trace them on any other websites.
Regards
Coreen
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I posted a reply at the same time you did :)
Usually by now I would have found some trace of the family :-\
Have searched outgoing U.K. passenger lists, deaths in Ireland, deaths in Scotland and 1911 census there...
Added- have you tried Ulster Covenant yet?
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Hi,
Just tried it - a few possibilities but nothing that jumps out. Most of my other ancestors did sign the Covenant,so if they were all still in the area I'm sure at least one of the family would have signed it.
Regards
Coreen
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I THINK I FOUND THEM!!! ... will post as fast as I can type :)
FINALLY (by googling "rebecca allen" & lisburn- after trying dozens of other combinations)-
New Zealand Herald, 15 June 1908-
ALLEN.— June 13, at his residence, Lisburn. Park Avenue, William, the dearly-beloved husband of Rebecca Allen, late of Lisburn, County Antrim, Ireland, aged 64 years.—Belfast papers please copy. The funeral will leave his late residence to-day (Monday) at 2 p.m. for Waikaraki Cemetery, Onebunga.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=NZH19080615.2.2.3
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Headstone inscription here (http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll?AC=NEXT_BLOCK&XC=/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll&BU=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aucklandcity.govt.nz%2Fdbtw-wpd%2Fcemeteries%2Fcemetery.html&TN=cemeteries&SN=AUTO2653&SE=1602&RN=0&MR=20&TR=0&TX=1000&ES=0&CS=1&XP=&RF=Reportweb&EF=&DF=&RL=0&EL=0&DL=1&NP=2&ID=&MF=WPEngMsg.ini&MQ=&TI=0&DT=&ST=0&IR=50462&NR=0&NB=0&SV=0&SS=0&BG=&FG=&QS=&OEX=ISO-8859-1&OEH=ISO-8859-1):
" In loving memory of William dearly beloved husband of Rebecca Allen died 13 June 1908 aged 64 yrs Also Rebecca dearly beloved wife of the above died 2 Sept 1915 aged 68 yrs"
Rebecca Allen's death notice-
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=NZH19150903.2.2.2
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Hi,
Thanks so much - just want to clarify. Did he died in Lisburn or New Zealend?
Coreen
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He died in New Zeeland (note that Belfast papers were asked to copy) and 'Lisburn' was the name of the house.
Marriage of son Robert in 1916- see here (http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=NZH19161109.2.2.3&srpos=2&e=-------10-NZH-1----0ethel+allen--)
Robert's WWI service record - see here (http://muse.aucklandmuseum.com/databases/general/Cenotaph/99206.detail?Ordinal=9&c_embarkingtransport_search=%22hmnzt+91%22&c_embarkingtransport_logic=or)
William Allen's WWI service record-
http://muse.aucklandmuseum.com/databases/Cenotaph/87966.detail?Ordinal=1440&c_all=1
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I see - the name of the house confused me. Thanks for all your help. I would never have found them on my own!
Regards
Coreen
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Found Rebecca & 3 of the children going to N.Z. (much easier when you know where they went)-
24 Sept.1904 "Corinthic" departed Plymouth, England for Wellington, N.Z.-
Rebecca Allen (50) dairy farmer, daughter Margt Allen (20), daughter Lizzie Allen (17), son Geo Allen (15).
Suspect that William & others went earlier.
Do you want me to look for more details or is this enough for your search?
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No,I think that's enough for now. You've done far more & found more than I would have ever expected.
Coreen
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Hi,
Thank you for help re William & Rebecca Allen. I am now trying to trace William's brother,David Allen. He was a shoemaker,born 09/02/1841 in Piper's Hill,Lisburn,baptised 10/02/1841. Parents George Allen & Margaret Thompson. I believe that he married Martha Leighton in Antrim in 1877,her father's name was Richard. I have been unable to trace David and/or Martha after their marriage on any websites & as you were so helpful in tracing his brother,William,wondered if you could point me in the right direction for David.
Regards
Coreen
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Hi,
There is a David Allen,a widowed shoemaker, living in Whitehouse St. Whitehouse, Co. Antrim in the 1901 census. The age is given as 50 but age is often incorrect in the census.
Regards
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There is a David Allen,a widowed shoemaker, living in Whitehouse St. Whitehouse, Co. Antrim in the 1901 census. The age is given as 50 but age is often incorrect in the census.
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Whitehouse/Lr__Whitehouse_Street/988375
Child of David Allen & Martha Leighton-
Mabel Kate (1880) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGJ9-VDD
Daughter Mabel easier to trace with a more uncommon name.
1900 Census- Bronx, N.Y.
Kate Leighton, Nov.1844, Ireland, to US 1872, single
sister Martha Allen, July 1842, Ireland, wid., to US 1896, 1 child/1 living
neice Mabel Allen, Apr.1880, Ireland, to US 1896, single
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1910 Census- 94 Beechwood Ave., Mount Vernon, Westchester, N.Y.
Martha Allen, 60, Ireland, to US 1896, wid., 1 child/1 living
daughter Mabel K. Allen, 30, Ireland, to US 1896, single, bookkeeper- decorators
sister Kate Leighton, 58, Ireland, to US 1872, single
1920 Census- 94 Beechwood Ave., Mount Vernon, Westchester, N.Y.
Mabel K. Allen, 39, Ireland, to US 1896, single, bookkeeper- theatrical co.
aunt Kate Leighton, 79, Ireland, to US 1872, single
30 Apr.1896 "Hibernian" arrived New York from Londonderry, Ireland:
Martha Allen, 49 & Mabel Allen, 15. Last reisidence- Belfast
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A visit back home-
4 Sept.1921 "Carmania" arrived New York from Liverpool, England
Mabel K. Allen, 41, bookkeeper, born Lisburn, res. Mt. Vernon since 1896, uncle Saml Leighton 340 Ravenhill Rd Belfast, aunt Kate Leighton 164 Beechwood Ave Mt Vernon, 5'2" tall fresh complexion brown hair blue eyes.
Uncle Samuel Leighton & family-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Ormeau/The_Mount/1213571
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Ormeau/Ravenhill_Road/216735
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Hi,
Thanks once again - you're obviously far more adept then I am at tracking these people down!
Really appreciate all you've done.
Regards
Coreen
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This one was easier- would have been much more difficult without Mabel to search for :)
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Have just found details of Allen family (father George Allen, shoemaker, Lisburn) posted on several other sites recently which indicates David Allen buried Lisburn Cathedral. Going by the username it looks like they are your posts. Have you checked burial details for this david Allen? date of death would hopefully tie into records for wife Martha and daughter Mabel.
http://lisburn.com/Databases/help-people2.aspx
http://pub2.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=90420285&frmid=2&msgid=859532&cmd=show
In case it's of interest- James Allen's marriage to Mary Short:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/IRL-MONAGHAN/2005-04/1113923468
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Hi,
Yes those posts were from me. I have the books ''These Hallowed Grounds'' vol 1 & 2,which mentions quite a lot of my Allen family,including David's brother,James & his wife,Mary Short. David appears to be buried with James in Lisburn Cathedral,headstone 53. Unfortunately,unlike the other members of his family,there is no DOD recorded for David.
Regards
Coreen
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Does the burial register not list the date of burial?
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Actually having had a second look the inscription on headstone 53 only mentions James Allen,his daughter Mary Elizabeth,daughter,Margaret ,mother-in-law,Mary Elizabeth Short,son Andrew & wife,Mary. No mention of brother,David. The quote later on in Vol 2 just says: Cathedral 53: ''James Allen (1831-1873) ...... was a Shoe-maker,as was his brother,David''. Looks like he wasn't buried with James after all????
Regards
Coreen
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1896 David's widow Martha & daughter Mabel give last residence as Belfast- it could be that they were staying with her brother Samuel or other relative but I've searched some of the online directors (Lennon Wylie & PRONI) and found a possible lead-
1884 Belfast: ALLEN David shoemaker 5 Lee St
Earlier I'd gone through Lisburn directories in case he was there with brother James-
1866 Lisburn: ALLEN James Bow St. and ALLEN Edward Bridge St. (under shoemakers)
1877 & 1880 Edward Allen listed under Market Sq., Lisburn.
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Not sure if you have this already-
Belfast Newsletter, 11 Jan.1877- Marriage- ALLEN-LEIGHTON- January 10, at St. Anne's Church, Belfast, by the Rev. Dr. Hannay, David Allen, Lisburn, to Martha, fourth daughter of Mr. Richard Leighton, Belfast.
Puts David still in Lisburn 1877 and gives a name for Martha's father in Belfast.
Which leads us to Richard Leighton- "The Will of Richard Leighton late of Bow-street Lisburn County Antrim Book-keeper who died 4 March 1890 at same place was proved at Belfast by Samuel Leighton of 6 Cooke-terrace Ormeau-road Belfast Artist the sole Executor." Will mentions son Samuel, 3 grand-daughters (including Mabel K. Allen).
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Hi,
No I had none of that. David had an elder brother,Edward,also a shoemaker. My direct ancestor is the eldest brother,John,another shoemaker,born 1825,married,I believe,to a Julia Anna Bell.
Thanks once again.
Coreen
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Are the Belfast Newsletters all available on line?
Coreen
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Coreen,
I can confirm that John Allen married Julianna Bell in Ballinderry Church of Ireland, Lisburn District. The fathers' names were George Allen and John Bell.
Rather strangely the Ulster Historical gives the location of the marriage as Co. Londonderry. This is a pay-to-view site so I have no further detail.
Regards
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Think Ancestry have Newsletter- you can often use it at your local library if you have a subscription.
Added- yes, up to 1925 but browse only-
search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=2193
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I can confirm that John Allen married Julianna Bell in Ballinderry Church of Ireland, Lisburn District. The fathers' names were George Allen and John Bell.
Rather strangely the Ulster Historical gives the location of the marriage as Co. Londonderry. This is a pay-to-view site so I have no further detail.
Yes, very strange. Emerald Ancestors give Lisburn (with year 1851)- wonder if someone putting details into UHF database clicked the wrong option from a drop-down menu.
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I paid for details of John & Julia Anna's marriage some time ago via the Ulster Historical Foundation website. They were married 17/01/1851 in Ballinderry Church of Ireland,Lisburn,Ballinderry & then it does record Londonderry as part of the address. I can only assume that this is indeed an error as you suggested.
Coreen
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Wow ! I could have saved a lot of hunting, didn't think to look here for the New Zealand family. Thank you so much. William Allen's wife, Rebecca Forsythe was sister to my great grandmother, Elizabeth, who married Thomas Bruce. Their son, also Thomas, my grandfather, kept in touch with the New Zealand family and in a letter to my mother in 1957 he says he has heard from Lizzie Allen telling of the death of her sister Meg, and Meg's husband, and that she is now the only one of the family left. In the early 1950's a John Allen, a doctor came to stay with us in Scotland, and he and married a Scots girl, Will-Ena Tulloch. John died in Auckland in 2011. I am not sure which of the sons of William he was descended from - back to hunting.