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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: nic82au on Saturday 17 August 13 02:24 BST (UK)
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I have hit a major brickwall in tracing my 2nd Great Grandfather and i am looking for ideas on where to look next.
This is what i have.
John Godfrey, born about 1841 in or around Newport, County Tipperary, Ireland. He immigrated to Australia in 1866, aboard "Peerless", sponsored by his brother Daniel Godfrey (who arrived in 1863). From the immigration records i have ascertained that his parents are Daniel Godfrey & Mary Healy (from Daniel's death certificate 1907.)
In 1867 John married Bridget Mary Donovan in Piper Street, Woollahra, under the rites of the Roman Catholic Church (however i have yet to ascertain if they were even married in a church). Their marriage certificate gives very little information on either of their backgrounds. (No ages, places of birth or parents names.) The witnesses are listed as Daniel Godfrey (John's brother) and Mary Donovan (Bridget's sister who later married a John McCarthy)
Bridget and John went on to have eight children, two of whom died as infants.
I have searched the Sydney Sands Directories and NSW Census and Electoral Rolls and also the City of Sydney - Assesment Books. And can track John up until about 1905 this way as living in and around the area of Surrey Hills. But after that he just disappears.
I also tracked the family through Death Notices and Funeral Notices on TROVE. I have found mentions of many of the family members and their brothers and sisters upon their death but nothing of John. The last mention of John is in 1913 when Bridget's sister Ellen died.
I have been unable to find a death for John. I have searched death registrations, as well as Burial Registers for Rookwood, and Waverley Cemetery's where many of the family were buried.
I'd really like some ideas on where to look next, as I have just about exhausted all my avenues.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
And thankyou in advance.
Nicole
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In 1867 John married Bridget Mary Donovan in Piper Street, Woollahra, under the rites of the Roman Catholic Church (however i have yet to ascertain if they were even married in a church). Their marriage certificate gives very little information on either of their backgrounds. (No ages, places of birth or parents names.) The witnesses are listed as Daniel Godfrey (John's brother) and Mary Donovan (Bridget's sister who later married a John McCarthy)
Here's a link to help overcome the hurdles re those blanks on that marriage cert :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html
Cheers, JM
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Do you have the following info …
NSW ER 1903 EAST SYDNEY, polling at Belmore (not, not the Sydney Suburb, but the polling place NEAR to Central Station)
William GODFRED (yes, JM including this in case that is a printer’s typo), 24 Wemyss St, cabman
John GODFREY, 24 Wemyss St, mail driver
John GODFREY, senior, 24 Wemyss St, carpenter
Mary GODFREY , 24 Wemyss St, domestic duties
Sarah GODFREY, 288 Elizabeth St, domestic duties
William GODFREY, 26 Wexford St, cabman
Cheers, JM
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Do you have the following info …
NSW ER 1903 EAST SYDNEY, polling at Belmore (not, not the Sydney Suburb, but the polling place NEAR to Central Station)
William GODFRED (yes, JM including this in case that is a printer’s typo), 24 Wemyss St, cabman
John GODFREY, 24 Wemyss St, mail driver
John GODFREY, senior, 24 Wemyss St, carpenter
Mary GODFREY , 24 Wemyss St, domestic duties
Sarah GODFREY, 288 Elizabeth St, domestic duties
William GODFREY, 26 Wexford St, cabman
Cheers, JM
Yes,
I found this one. Thanks
This is one of the last official mentions i found of John Snr.
The Mary Godfrey mentioned is Bridget Godfrey, I found several records of her using Mary and several using Bridget.
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Which family members have you found on the NSW 1913 Electoral Roll?
Also St Marys Cathedral Archivist http://www.sydneycatholic.org/about/archives.shtml re the elusive blanks on the mc :)
Cheers, JM :)
Do you have the following info …
NSW ER 1903 EAST SYDNEY, polling at Belmore (not, not the Sydney Suburb, but the polling place NEAR to Central Station)
Yes,
I found this one. Thanks
This is one of the last official mentions i found of John Snr.
The Mary Godfrey mentioned is Bridget Godfrey, I found several records of her using Mary and several using Bridget.
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You have certainly done a thorough job so you would probably have Bridget's death certificate which may give a clue. ??? Is this her?
1933, registered at Redfern, New South Wales #18494
Bridget M GODFREY
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Johanna
This is probably the funeral notice for this lady
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/17024638
Possibly a return thanks from her family
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/17027344
Judith :-\
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Yes, Judith is spot on .... you certainly have done a thorough job...
Some thoughts from me :)
Have you found any reference to John (senior) in the 1929 Probate Packet for John, son of John and Bridget ?
NSW BDM #2241 of 1929 registered at Burwood
NSW SRO has John GODFREY with DD 5 March 1929, probate granted 18 Nov 1929
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Search.aspx
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16536665 SMH 7 March 1929 (Mrs Godfrey Sen mentioned, so it is likely she was already a widow)
Cheers, JM
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He is not mentioned in son William's death notices in 1914. Not even 'son of the late John..', which is quite unusual.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15467027
Debra :)
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In 1867 John married Bridget Mary Donovan in Piper Street, Woollahra, under the rites of the Roman Catholic Church (however i have yet to ascertain if they were even married in a church). Their marriage certificate gives very little information on either of their backgrounds. (No ages, places of birth or parents names.) The witnesses are listed as Daniel Godfrey (John's brother) and Mary Donovan (Bridget's sister who later married a John McCarthy)
If John was not a Roman Catholic, then they would not have been allowed to marry in the church. A priest could still perform the ceremony, just not in the actual church building. Some weddings were performed in the vestry or other side room.
Regards
Jennaya
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Which family members have you found on the NSW 1913 Electoral Roll?
Also St Marys Cathedral Archivist http://www.sydneycatholic.org/about/archives.shtml re the elusive blanks on the mc :)
Cheers, JM :)
Do you have the following info …
NSW ER 1903 EAST SYDNEY, polling at Belmore (not, not the Sydney Suburb, but the polling place NEAR to Central Station)
Yes,
I found this one. Thanks
This is one of the last official mentions i found of John Snr.
The Mary Godfrey mentioned is Bridget Godfrey, I found several records of her using Mary and several using Bridget.
I haven't got the 1913 Electoral Roll entry's but 1908, put's Bridget and her daughter Catherine at Wemyss Street. But no John.
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Yes, Judith is spot on .... you certainly have done a thorough job...
Some thoughts from me :)
Have you found any reference to John (senior) in the 1929 Probate Packet for John, son of John and Bridget ?
NSW BDM #2241 of 1929 registered at Burwood
NSW SRO has John GODFREY with DD 5 March 1929, probate granted 18 Nov 1929
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Search.aspx
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16536665 SMH 7 March 1929 (Mrs Godfrey Sen mentioned, so it is likely she was already a widow)
Cheers, JM
I had the same thought about the Probate Packet, but it only mentions his wife Annie.
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There is "A" John F GODFREY buried in Anglican section at Woronora cemetery Sutherland.
Section MM position 0063. It gives date of death as 23/11/1915, but could be burial. Parents names are wrong on BDM for your fella, but they have been wrong before. Have you checked this one out?
Neil
oooh red
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He is not mentioned in son William's death notices in 1914. Not even 'son of the late John..', which is quite unusual.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15467027
Debra :)
No, the last mention i found in Trove is in 1913, for Bridget's sister Ellen Coffey.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article15407549
However it is a little weird as one entry lists Mr. & Mrs. J. Godfrey (their beloved sister) and the next entry is Mrs. Godfrey (her beloved sister).
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Well,
Have you gone through with fine tooth comb :) (of course you have !) over and over the marriage certs for any daughters .... any aged 21 and under, needing consent to marry .... and also checking if he was noted as "dec" or "deceased" or even if cert (could be a case of needing the cert rather than the official transcript) perhaps had following mark near his name :
† (keyed via Alt 0134)
Cheers, JM
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There is "A" John F GODFREY buried in Anglican section at Woronora cemetery Sutherland.
Section MM position 0063. It gives date of death as 23/11/1915, but could be burial. Parents names are wrong on BDM for your fella, but they have been wrong before. Have you checked this one out?
Neil
oooh red
I just found his death notice on TROVE and he was only 1yr old. So not my John.
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Well,
Have you gone through with fine tooth comb :) (of course you have !) over and over the marriage certs for any daughters .... any aged 21 and under, needing consent to marry .... and also checking if he was noted as "dec" or "deceased" or even if cert (could be a case of needing the cert rather than the official transcript) perhaps had following mark near his name :
† (keyed via Alt 0134)
Cheers, JM
His daughter Mary married Cornelius Buckley in 1890
Catherine married Percy Seares in 1910
and Margaret (I'm not 100% sure that i have the right person) married James Helman in 1926.
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Catherine married Percy Seares in 1910
How does Catherine describe her father in 1910 on that mc?
Cheers, JM
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Also St Marys Cathedral Archivist http://www.sydneycatholic.org/about/archives.shtml re the elusive blanks on the mc :)
Cheers, JM :)
If i email them with what i know will they be able to find what i need or is it a little more complicated than that?
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Catherine married Percy Seares in 1910
How does Catherine describe her father in 1910 on that mc?
Cheers, JM
I'm not sure i haven't got all the marriage certificates yet.
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Catherine married Percy Seares in 1910
How does Catherine describe her father in 1910 on that mc?
Cheers, JM
I'm not sure i haven't got all the marriage certificates yet.
In my view, it would be a sensible record to seek out.
Cheers, JM
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Catherine married Percy Seares in 1910
How does Catherine describe her father in 1910 on that mc?
Cheers, JM
I'm not sure i haven't got all the marriage certificates yet.
In my view, it would be a sensible record to seek out.
Cheers, JM
Okay, I'll check them out to.
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Perhaps your initial email could ask them how to go about learning more about the bride and the groom, and their parentage, and you should offer to send a copy of the marriage cert to show that there are blanks on it. The information was collected by the clergy at the time of interviewing the couple. It was recorded at that time. It is just a matter of establishing where that information is currently held, and how to access it. I find it sensible to acknowledge that by making that type of request (for information that needs looking up), you realise there may be fees and charges, and that you would like to know how to pay any fees and charges that may apply, or ask at least about where to make a donation to help preserve their archival material.
Cheers, JM.
If i email them with what i know will they be able to find what i need or is it a little more complicated than that?
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I hope I am not dragging everybody back to the beginning of this thread with this request, BUT
Who are the children of JOHN and BRIDGET?
Would you list them with birth and death if you have such details.
There are certainly more than one John GODFREY about NSW and I am muddled as to which is which1
Sue
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I hope I am not dragging everybody back to the beginning of this thread with this request, BUT
Who are the children of JOHN and BRIDGET?
Would you list them with birth and death if you have such details.
There are certainly more than one John GODFREY about NSW and I am muddled as to which is which1
Sue
Absolutely
1.Mary Ann Godfrey (1869-1937) m. Cornelius Buckley 1890
2. William Daniel Godfrey (1870-1914)
3. Bridget Ann Godfrey (1873-1874) her death is under Mary Ann Godfrey
4. John William Godfrey (1877-1929) I have been unable to find his Birth registration. m. Annie McKeever/McIvor 1905
5. Michael Godfrey (1878-1961) his birth is listed under William Godfrey (lists 2 males & 1 female living and 1 female deceased. m. Ellen M. Jolley 1903
6. Catherine Godfrey (1880-1952) m. Percy Ambrose Seares 1910
7. Elizabeth Godfrey (1882-1883)
8. Margaret Godfrey (1884-1933) m. James Henry Helman in 1926. I'm not entirely sure about Margaret. I only made her connection to Helman as in the 1930 Electoral Rolls James Henry Helman, Margaret Helman, Bridget Godfrey and Mary Godfrey all live at 'Herstmonceux' McDonald Street, Lakemba. Margaret's death certificate lists a Michael Godfrey & Mary O'Donohoe as her parents.
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Thanks for everyone's help today!
I have a few avenues to look into.
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Yes there are actually quite a few JOHN GODFREY chaps in Sydney and Sydney Metro....
Sands City and Suburban 1900
24 Weymss St East side John GODFREY, carpenter (JM says this seems to be our OP's chap)
1910 Sands Sydney Alpha
(so only SYDNEY, and Sydney Metro, NOT Country NSW)
Here’s three different chaps named John GODFREY
Burwood Road, BELMORE
Henry St, LEICHHARDT
28 Edward St, NORTH SYDNEY
1915 Sands Sydney Alpha
(so only SYDNEY, and Sydney Metro, NOT Country NSW)
Percy SEARES 31 Brisbane St (CBD)
And here’s four different chaps named John GODFREY:
Burwood Rd, BELMORE
5 Gibbens St, CAMPERDOWN
Hermann St, KOGARAH
Henry St, LEICHHARDT
I have NOT typed up John GODFREY chaps with middle initials, James GODFREY or J GODFREY.
Cheers, JM
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Hi,
The Sands Directories have John Godfrey at 24 Wemyss St for 1895, 1896, 1898, 1899, 1900, 1901, 1902, 1903 1904 then 1905. From 1906 until 1910 24 Wemyss St has William Godfrey.
Gerry
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If you only have John GODFREY up to a certain year, and then he seems to disappear....have you tried police gazettes for missing persons, or dessertions? Not sure what year they go up to. Have you also looked at prison records perhaps?
Katharine.
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Catherine married Percy Seares in 1910
How does Catherine describe her father in 1910 on that mc?
Cheers, JM
I'm not sure i haven't got all the marriage certificates yet.
In my view, it would be a sensible record to seek out.
Cheers, JM
Okay, I'll check them out to.
Catherine's marriage certificate from 1910 states her father as being deceased.
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Have you got the burial place of John Godfrey's wife? And was he and the wife of the same religion?
Katharine.
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If you only have John GODFREY up to a certain year, and then he seems to disappear....have you tried police gazettes for missing persons, or dessertions? Not sure what year they go up to. Have you also looked at prison records perhaps?
Katharine.
I can't find him in the Police Gazettes. I did find a couple of mentions in The Sydney Morning Herald of a John Godfrey. For drunkness and also one for hitting his wife with a saucepan. Not sure if it is my John.
The trials were at The Sydney Water Police Court. Does anyone know if these records are kept anywhere?
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Have you got the burial place of John Godfrey's wife? And was he and the wife of the same religion?
Katharine.
Bridget was buried in the Roman Catholic section at Waverley Cemetery. The only indication I have that John was also RC is from his immigration records.
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And he definately isn't in the cemetery (or that plot) with her? I was thinking of finding out through the cemetery, who has ownership of the grave. But in hindsight, I don't think that will help you out as it would seem John might have gone first, and one of her children might have organised her plot.
As for Water Police Records - I would hazard a guess that they might be out at State Records. Give them a call and they should be able to tell you.
Have you looked for him in asylum records as well?
Katharine.
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Could this be his death
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14713336?searchTerm=godfrey john&searchLimits=exactPhrase|||anyWords|||notWords|||l-textSearchScope=*ignore*|*ignore*|||fromdd|||frommm|||fromyyyy=1905
Regards
Jennaya
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Could this be his death
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14713336?searchTerm=godfrey john&searchLimits=exactPhrase|||anyWords|||notWords|||l-textSearchScope=*ignore*|*ignore*|||fromdd|||frommm|||fromyyyy=1905
Regards
Jennaya
I think he would have only been in his mid 60's in 1906. So no I don't think this is him. Thanks anyway.
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And he definately isn't in the cemetery (or that plot) with her? I was thinking of finding out through the cemetery, who has ownership of the grave. But in hindsight, I don't think that will help you out as it would seem John might have gone first, and one of her children might have organised her plot.
As for Water Police Records - I would hazard a guess that they might be out at State Records. Give them a call and they should be able to tell you.
Have you looked for him in asylum records as well?
Katharine.
Bridget and John's son William is buried in the same plot as Bridget, he died in 1914. As far as I could tell John wasn't in the Waverley Cemetery Register.
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Hi Nic
How do you know he was older than mid 60s when he died?
Regards
Jennaya
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Hi Nic
How do you know he was older than mid 60s when he died?
Regards
Jennaya
According to his immigration records and all of his children's birth certificates he was born in about 1841.
I've narrowed down the range for when he died, 1905-1910. So he would have been about 65-70 when he died.
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Hi
Wentworth Falls Cemetery
John Godfrey 17 /02/1906 Ang Section 2 Row 5 Plot 8b
Annie Godfrey no date Ang Section 2 Row 5 Plot 8a
Muss
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I wonder if ::) John and Mary/Bridget had split up ???
Cos...
A Marriage
JOHN GODFREY To ANNIE MACIVOR At WATERLOO 5523/1905
Possibly moved to Wentworth Falls for whatever reason. ???
Neil
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I wonder if ::) John and Mary/Bridget had split up ???
Cos...
A Marriage
JOHN GODFREY To ANNIE MACIVOR At WATERLOO 5523/1905
Possibly moved to Wentworth Falls for whatever reason. ???
Neil
This marriage is that of John and Bridget's son John William. My great grandparents.