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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: RedMystic on Tuesday 13 August 13 15:24 BST (UK)

Title: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: RedMystic on Tuesday 13 August 13 15:24 BST (UK)
http://generations.regionofwaterloo.ca/getperson.php?personID=I148323&tree=generations

This link indicates the following source. What is the best / fastest way to obtain a copy of the original?  ???
 
 1.[S91] Church Records - ON, Waterloo, Maryhill - St. Boniface Roman Catholic, Rev. Joseph Ritter. Joseph May s/o Michael & Catharine Anins? married 1 Feb 1853 to Maria Anna Miller d/o Anton & Magdalena Klein witnesses: Arbogast Roth & Catharina Schell
 
My interest is in Anton & Magdalena Klein. I believe that the source MAY actually read Anton Miller & Magdalena Sayler / Seiler. However, I've not been able to track those names in Germany, sooooo maybe there is something to this source that I need to unlock the puzzle.

Mary Ann in the link has a brother whose Canadian 1913 death certificate says parents were Anthony Miller & Magdalena Sayl?. An old family document says parents are Antoine Miller & Magdalene Sayler. Who the heck are these Kleins or are they simply a transcription error?

Thanks for any assistance you can provide.
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: cosmac on Tuesday 13 August 13 16:23 BST (UK)
Have you checked FamilySearch?  They have unindexed Roman Catholic records for various RC churches in Ontario.
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: MargP on Tuesday 13 August 13 16:28 BST (UK)
Hi

I believe a lot of German people changed there names, to more English sounding names

Margp
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: RedMystic on Tuesday 13 August 13 16:36 BST (UK)
Have you checked FamilySearch?  They have unindexed Roman Catholic records for various RC churches in Ontario.

Awesome Cosmac. I didn't know that.  Will head there. Thanks.
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: RedMystic on Tuesday 13 August 13 16:40 BST (UK)
Hi

I believe a lot of German people changed there names, to more English sounding names

Margp

Thanks for the thought, Marg. That certainly happened. :P ;D Makes it darn hard to sleuth.

The couple whose name is in question never came to Canada. It's more the missing surname (Miller to match the daughter's name) for the father & entirely different surname for the mother that I'm questioning. I can't envision that a Miller would have changed a surname to Klein. ;)

I do appreciate you weighing in though. :)
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: RedMystic on Wednesday 14 August 13 13:54 BST (UK)
Hi cosmac

I've been trying to find the church records I referenced yesterday. I can't find Waterloo County as an option in the RC records on FamilySearch. This is the link to the page I'm looking on. I've also provided the source info from the Waterloo County genealogy site that I'd like to see in the original form.

Am I doing something wrong in my search technique? ???

https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https://familysearch.org/records/collection/1927566/waypoints

27 Nov 1855 in Waterloo County
Church Records - ON, Waterloo, Maryhill - St. Boniface Roman Catholic. Joseph Miller s/o Anton & Magdalena Klein married 27 Nov 1855 to Josepha Goetz d/o Martin & Theresia Mittelhauser, witnesses: John Korman & Ignatus Miller

1 Feb 1853 in Waterloo County
Church Records - ON, Waterloo, Maryhill - St. Boniface Roman Catholic, Rev. Joseph Ritter. Joseph May s/o Michael & Catharine Anins? married 1 Feb 1853 to Maria Anna Miller d/o Anton & Magdalena Klein witnesses: Arbogast Roth & Catharina Schell

Thanks in advance for any further direction.  :)
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: cosmac on Wednesday 14 August 13 16:32 BST (UK)
When I asked if you had checked FamilySearch for the Roman Catholic church records they have browsable images of I didn't mean to imply that I had found your Roman Catholic church in the listings.  It was only a suggestion to check out the database to see if your area was covered.

I'm assuming your source for the surname Saylor and the Christian name of Anton comes from a book entry found attached to a family tree on ancestry.  The Louis Miller also mentioned in this book is found on the 1901 and 1911 census in Luther, Wellington North (1911 as Lozie) and his death in 1920 at Toronto gives his father as Louis Miller.  His daughter Elizabeth was the informant and perhaps she thought it meant to give her father's name??  Louis is buried in Arthur, Ontario.  Too bad that death record doesn't clear up anything in your lineage.

My husband's direct lineage has Roman Catholic ties.  I've contacted churches and cemeteries and generally they've been quite cooperative and either supplied the information I asked for, told me the information I wanted didn't exist or they didn't hold any records and try this source.
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: RedMystic on Wednesday 14 August 13 23:40 BST (UK)
Thanks for the information cosmac. Sorry for the tardy response. I've been away from my desk since this morning.

The tree you saw with the 1906sh document was likely mine. ;) Yes, that is where I got the maiden name Saylor. Try as I might, I've not been able to link it to anything in Germany, so I'm hoping, one I figure out the Klein comment, that I can make further progress.  ;)

I'll try to find a different way to follow up on the RC docs that were cited in the earlier post.

I've not explored the FamilySearch documents much in the past, so you've piqued my interest in doing that more now. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: cosmac on Thursday 15 August 13 00:09 BST (UK)
Obviously the comment I made on your other thread regarding using the contact button for the Waterloo transcriptions belonged here.
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: RedMystic on Thursday 15 August 13 01:22 BST (UK)
I forgot to mention that the Saylor name as maiden name is noted when Magdalena is shown as mother on son Joseph Miller's death certificate. It is handwritten, not transcribed, hence the necessity of getting to the bottom of the Saylor / Klein dilemma. ::) :P

Joseph S Miller
Birth 31 Mar 1835 in Alsace Lorraine, Germany   
Death 15 Mar 1913 in  Enniskillen, Lambton County, Ontario, Canada
 
Thanks again for your suggestions about getting to the bottom of this dilemma. :)
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: markmccormack667 on Thursday 15 August 13 03:22 BST (UK)
Fastest way is to call them, give them the info, make sure they have it, and tell them someone will be picking it up tomorrow. 

Send me a PM notice, and I'll run down the street and grab it for you (20 min).  I'll scan it for you and send that day, and snail mail the originals to you :)

Any help I can give on this side of the lake is Karma dollars owed for all the help I get from you guys on that side of the lake!

Kindest Regards

Mark

Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: markmccormack667 on Thursday 15 August 13 03:32 BST (UK)
Some of these kind people may be able to help you too:

Historical Society of St. Boniface and Maryhill Community
1338 B Maryhill Road
Maryhill, Ontario Canada
N0B 2B0

Nice photo of the church here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/felixtrio/5654677304/lightbox/

It is literally 10 minutes from my house if you wish me to look into it for you.  PM me with any particulars.  Have digital camera, will travel.

Mark
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: RedMystic on Thursday 15 August 13 04:51 BST (UK)
Thank you very much markmccormack667.  :) I'm on the road to British Columbia on Thursday. I'll get back to this in Friday & may take you up on your very generous offer. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: MargP on Thursday 15 August 13 09:54 BST (UK)
Just a thought, I wonder if Anton was married twice to 2 Magdalena's

Margp
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: MargP on Thursday 15 August 13 10:34 BST (UK)
Hi

There are a couple of Tree's on Ancestry, which looks well documented, and they have the original name of Miller has Muller and Magdalena as Klien but in a story attached to the tree it states that her maiden name was Savior

Margp
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: RedMystic on Saturday 17 August 13 23:15 BST (UK)
Obviously the comment I made on your other thread regarding using the contact button for the Waterloo transcriptions belonged here.

I contacted them 4 days ago providing some info they didn't have, as well as querying the transcript that references Klein. No response as yet.  :-\ ;D

Hi

There are a couple of Tree's on Ancestry, which looks well documented, and they have the original name of Miller has Muller and Magdalena as Klien but in a story attached to the tree it states that her maiden name was Savior

Margp

Thanks, I've not been able to find the public tree with a surname Savior. Is it possible for you to send me a link to that?

I've attached the death info for Joseph Miller: his marriage transcript references Klein as noted earlier, but his death indicates Sayl? :-\ ::) ;D (His record is the centre column.)


It is literally 10 minutes from my house if you wish me to look into it for you.  PM me with any particulars.  Have digital camera, will travel.

Mark

Mark, I would love it if you could do a look up for me on these marriage records to get to the bottom of this. It is a conundrum. I have to take the dog out for a walk, but will PM you "with the particulars" later this evening.  :)
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: MargP on Monday 19 August 13 11:57 BST (UK)
Hi RedMystic

I have had another look at the story I found, but unfortunately, after printing it off and a closer look it does say Saylor

It is from the Commemorative Biographical Record, do you still want me to send it to you, or do you have this

I have Googled  Alsace-Lorraine, it did not come under the German rule until 1871, so may be your and records may be in France ??????? and Joseph does state on the earlier census he was born in France

Margp
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: markmccormack667 on Monday 19 August 13 14:34 BST (UK)
<cough>  Old dusty book held in a safe... <cough> what a wonderful person to deal with... and the Padre was exceptionally kind.

Here is a quick scan of the document I obtained from St. Boniface - original records.  Appears that there was no transcribing error.  I have the entire page if you wish to PM me with your e-mail.  Also, I have the kind woman's contact information...not only is she the parish admin assist, she is also on the genealogical society for the area.  :D  Birth records do not go far enough back to check on birth records and there are none from the old country here.

We looked at the one name and agreed it was "Adam".  There are people assigned to different "Name Studies" in the area.  Klein is one of the names - someone in the area has been studying the Klein family here!  She said to feel free to call her to discuss. 

Anyway, great luck to you with the search, just yell if you need a hand again!

Mark

Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: RedMystic on Monday 19 August 13 14:44 BST (UK)
 :-* :-* :-* :-*

PM is on it's way. You rock. I look forward to receiving the document as well as getting the contact info for the person you spoke with.

It's a happy day. Maybe I'll get to the bottom of this yet.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: RedMystic on Monday 19 August 13 18:00 BST (UK)

It is from the Commemorative Biographical Record, do you still want me to send it to you, or do you have this

I have Googled  Alsace-Lorraine, it did not come under the German rule until 1871, so may be your and records may be in France ??????? and Joseph does state on the earlier census he was born in France

Margp

Hi Marg, thanks for the follow-up. As far as I can determine it, the land that is Alsace-Lorraine changed hands between France & Germany about 6 times over an 80 year span during the time I'm searching.  ::) :-\  Some of the people from the area who came to Canada list France & some Germany as the country of origin (and some alternate on different Cdn census).  :P

I think you're referencing the same story as I have in my tree. Is it, by chance, the Fisher tree you're looking at in Ancestry? If not, I'd love a link to what you're seeing. I'll PM you my e-mail.

Thanks again.  :)

Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: MargP on Monday 19 August 13 19:14 BST (UK)

It is from the Commemorative Biographical Record, do you still want me to send it to you, or do you have this

I have Googled  Alsace-Lorraine, it did not come under the German rule until 1871, so may be your and records may be in France ??????? and Joseph does state on the earlier census he was born in France

Margp
Hi  RM


Hi Marg, thanks for the follow-up. As far as I can determine it, the land that is Alsace-Lorraine changed hands between France & Germany about 6 times over an 80 year span during the time I'm searching.  ::) :-\  Some of the people from the area who came to Canada list France & some Germany as the country of origin (and some alternate on different Cdn census).  :P

I think you're referencing the same story as I have in my tree. Is it, by chance, the Fisher tree you're looking at in Ancestry? If not, I'd love a link to what you're seeing. I'll PM you my e-mail.

Thanks again.  :)
Hi RM, it is the Fisher tree, where I had the story from

Marg x
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: KarenM on Wednesday 21 August 13 15:43 BST (UK)
Hi Red,

I have family buried in the cemetery next to St. Boniface, it is a pretty cemetery with some ornate headstones.

Karen
Title: Re: Best way to obtin an original of this Ontario church record?
Post by: RedMystic on Wednesday 21 August 13 16:50 BST (UK)
Hi Karen

It does look quite beautiful based on the cathedral photo that markmccormack667 posted the other day.  :)

It frustrates me no end that I used to travel to Ontario for business at least monthly back in the 1980s, but I wasn't interested in family history at that point. If I had been, I might even have been able to track some of the elderly people when they were still living.  ::) Oh well, better searching late than never.  ;D One day, I hope to come across a branch of the family who stayed put & perhaps kept some of the family photos & stories. 8)