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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: lilyJ on Sunday 11 August 13 20:10 BST (UK)
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John was a distant cousin of mine. I found his gravestone at Waikaraka Cemetery, Onehunga on Flickr . He died Oct 25 1912 and is on the UK latest census living with his mother(who has remarried) and his sister and brother where his occupation is given as "sea going engineer"
I am totally intrigued by the inscription on his tombstone; "Ye did it unto me".
So I want to find out the circumstances of his death (I have all his antecedents back to the 1700s:his gg grandmother, Mary Shield,who married Edward Fenwick, was a sister of my ggg grandmother Hannah Shield).
As this is the first time I have found a relative in New Zealand I had a fun time delving into New Zealand resources. I must say I was pretty impressed with the sources I looked at.
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But I cannot find a death certificate for him. I searched the New Zealand deaths 1911 to 1913 for John Fenwick and there is only a John Waddell Fenwick, but he has an entry on the National Probate Calendar for England and Wales: died in Chistchurch and was a plumber.
Then I searched "papers past" and nada.
I even searched the Antarctic expeditions lists which includes ships crew members and also nada.(I have a vivid imagination!)
I have also searched every John Fenwick on find my past and also found nothing.
So can anyone kindly suggest any other resources in New Zealand that I can try , please?
lilyj
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Hi Lilyj
This is the cemetery database entry
Name FENWICK, JOHN C
Details M: died 25-10-1912: aged 27
Place Waikaraka
Location Area 3 Block 4 Lot No 67
Remarks transcribed inscription reads " Sacred to the memory of John Clerevaulx Fenwick of Newcastle -on-Tyne England died 25 Oct 1912 aged 27 yrs" (Harris)
Cheers Janette
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Thank you, Janette
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Definitely not J W he is buried in Christchurch
Surname: FENWICK
First name(s): JOHN WADDEL
Date of death: Monday, 4 November 1912
Cemetery: Linwood
Date of burial: Wednesday, 6 November 1912
Block number: 30
Plot number: 297
Age: 27 years
Address: 241 GLOUCESTER STREET
Occupation: GAS FITTER
Place of birth: ENGLAND
Years in New Zealand: 3 yrs 6 mths
Comments: Coroners warrant
Cheers Janette
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Thanks again Janette
That confirms some of the information in the probate records (England) re John Waddell Fenwick. Too bad I already ordered the death records for him now that I have eliminated him!
lilyj
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Name FENWICK, JOHN C
Died 25-10-1912: aged 27
Hello...
A bit of a stab in the dark :-)
On the BDM NZ website you can use the "Search From" and "Search To" boxes to specify an exact date.
The following death is for a 27 year old registered on 25 Oct 1912, which matches the age at and date of death supplied by Janette.
BDM NZ Deaths
1912/9455 - Family Name: NR - Given Name(s): NR - 27 years
NR stands for "Not Recorded".
Maybe get in touch with BDM NZ and see if they have any further details.
BDM NZ website
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/ (https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/)
Regards
Beg
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Thanks, Beg
I'm going to try that. Lets hope its not someone else who died that day!
lilyj
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Hi LilyJ...
Combining the date with the age at death makes me think it's your man. And the lack of recorded details plus the bitterness in the headstone inscription makes me think it was a suicide.
Or I may be reading too much into it.
There was a thread last week with a similar unfound death registration. The death was a suicide. The PapersPast report seemed to imply that the norm was an unblessed burial at midnight.
"Unhouselled and unanelled"...different times.
PapersPast
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0vog/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/0vog/)
Regards
Beg
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"Ye did it unto me" is from a verse in the Bible
Matthew 25:40
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
- King James Bible "Authorized Version", Cambridge Edition
Cheers Janette
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Thanks Janette.
Memories of a rap on the knuckles from Sister Margaret for not picking up on that :-)
Certainly puts a different slant on things.
All the best
Beg :)
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Beg and Janette
Beg: Thank you for mentioning that it could be a suicide. My vivid imagination hadn't thought of that. I'm glad you mentioned it as it prepares me. Mind you it was a long time ago and he is a distant relative. I hate getting death certs actually. But I always have a little moment to acknowledge the relative. I only get upset when I find all the child deaths that happenned in my family tree as well as the women who died in childbirth.
Janette
Thank you for the source of the quote. Now I'm even more intrigued!
lilyj
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I have an Uncle who has this verse on his headstone
Is life a boon?
If so, it must befall
That Death, whene'er he call,
Must call too soon.
It is from Gilbert and Sullivan's Yeomen of the Guard,the family could not work out what it meant as it is on a WW2 headstone ,finally the penny dropped when we realised he was in the Surrey and Sussex Yeomanry
Cheers Janette
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Hi again...
BDM NZ Deaths Microfiche
1912/2343 - FENWICK, John C
Death registered in Auckland.
You can use the above fiche reference to order a death certificate from BDM NZ.
Regards
Beg
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Thanks, Beg
How do you do that? I'm having a difficult time figuring out the NZ certificate system as it is so different from the UK one.
Oh well here goes with yet another 20 NZ dollars:)
Joan
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Hi again...
As I understand it..... :)
...the microfiche were the original means of public access to BDM records in pre-internet NZ. They contain surname, christian name and, for the births and deaths, a reference number which denotes the district in which the event was registered. The reference number on the marriage fiche is one of a matched pair, the other belonging to the spouse.
I have a feeling the reference numbers are actually the folio (page) numbers from the original registers but I may be wrong.
The microfiche are still found at the larger public libraries.
When the internet appeared BDM NZ transferred the BDM records onto their website. Unfortunately not all microfiche records seem to have survived the transfer and, equally annoying, the registration district information is no longer mentioned. And to top it all off the website numbering system bears no relation to the microfiche numbering system.
On the plus side - the website mentions parents of the child (births), the name of the spouse (marriages) and the age at death or date of birth of the deceased (deaths). And NZ genealogy research is a lot easier for those not actually in NZ.
So swings and roundabouts.
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Because the reference number is from the microfiche, not the website, the best thing to do is just phone up BDM NZ. Have your credit card ready :)
0800 22 52 52 (New Zealand only)
+64 (4) 463 9362 (Outside New Zealand)
Mention that the reference number is from the microfiche and that there is no corresponding entry on the website.
Make sure you ask for a printout, costing NZ$20.40, not a certificate. A printout is a scan of the original register. A certificate is not only more expensive (NZ$26.50) but may contain human error as it's a transcript of the original register.
You can also ask for the printout to be emailed to you as opposed to posting it out. There's no great difference in time taken to receive it but, if needed, it's a lot easier to zoom in on an electronic document than a paper document....(although that's Twiggy's opinion. Personally, I quite like dusting off the old magnifying glass and acting all sleuth like :)
Regards
Beg
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Thanks for the added information and detailed explanation.
I will phone in my order once I have researched the time difference between Canada and NZ!
lilyj
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Hi Lilyj,
It is 2pm NZ time at present
Cheers Janette
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Hi Janette and Beg
Just wanted to let you know I now have the information.
John died of TB, had been in NZ 3 months, and was a marine engineer
Thanks for all your help
lilyj
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Thats good news
Cheers Janette