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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: natterjack on Friday 09 August 13 11:12 BST (UK)
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Hiya,
I am struggling to find a family on the 1881 Census. I'm using both Ancestry and FamilySearch with no success on either.
I am looking for the family of Rose Henrietta Lulham born September quarter 1879 in Edmonton. Her parents were George Lulham and Elizabeth Jane Hobbs, who married in September quarter 1869 in Shoreditch.
I found them on the 1871 Census in Enfield, Edmonton using FamilySearch with a daughter Charlotte born 1870/1871 and I would like to see if the family are together on the 1881 Census - to confirm they are the same family with Rose present. If this is the case, it looks like two brothers' married two sisters' - from details I have found on the 1911 Census and looking into these brother's marriages.
I would also be interested to see if they had a brother also named George Lulham born circa 1874 from the Enfield area. Though I suppose he could be a cousin. And of course any other siblings to Rose.
I hope someone will be able to help me, as I am on the verge of pulling my hair out.... Lol.
Many thanks in advance.
Natterjack
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Transcribed as Sulham [on 1851, 1861, 1871 also] on Ancestry
Not the 1881 but the 1891 piece 1087 fol 6 p 6
George 46
Elizabeth 45
George 18
Thomas 16
Charles 14
Rosa 12
Elizabeth 4
Reynolds Cottage, Russell Road, Enfield
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https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3L3-D7D
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I found these on FindMyPast, transcribed as "Fulham"
FULHAM, George Head Married 36 Gunsmith Out Of Employ London Wall, Middlesex
FULHAM, Elizabeth Wife Married 35 Laundress Enfield, Middlesex
FULHAM, Charlotte Daughter Single 10 Scholar Enfield, Middlesex
FULHAM, George Son Single 8 Scholar Enfield, Middlesex
FULHAM, Thomas Son Single 6 Scholar Enfield, Middlesex
FULHAM, Charles Son Single 3 Enfield, Middlesex
FULHAM, Rosa Daughter Single 1 Enfield, Middlesex
Piece:1393
Folio:73
Page: 7
Registration District: Edmonton
Civil Parish: Enfield
Municipal Borough:
Address: 4, Forty Hill, Reynolds Row, Enfield
County: Middlesex
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1881 are indexed Fulham on Ancestry
RG 11 1393 73 7
( hint - I found them by just putting Ros*, birth 1879 +/- 2 yrs, bn Enfield, parents George and Eliza*)
Red writing - snap LizzieL
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Thank you so much.
I suppose the next step for me would be to look at the father pre 1871 to get his details of parents and siblings.
The reason for this is because I have come across the name of Lulham in my husband's family tree... and I am interested to find out if any of these Lulham's have connections to Sussex and if they could be traced/linked to each other. Hence it might be interesting to see the earlier census's.
Oh well, hopefully in time. At least we have now proved the women did marry the brother's - surname Williams who are related to me through a family marriage. I started out doing this for a family member, now I want to do it as part of my own research into my husband's family... just incase I can find a connection - as I don't think Lulham was or is that common a name.
Thanks again for all the help and many kind regards regards.
Natterjack
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as I don't think Lulham was or is that common a name.
But commonly mistranscribed :-\ - use Sulham on ancestry & also try *lham.
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Marriage
Shoreditch St Leonard
30 Aug 1869
George Lulham 24 bachelor, gunmaker, 30 Grt Cambridge st, father George Lulham victualler
to
Elizabeth Jane Hobbs, spinster, 24, laundress, same address, father Charles James Hobbs gamekeeper
Both signed. Witnesses Theopholis John Palmer and Ellen Palmer
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Thanks for that.
Only knew date of marriage.
Will see if I can find anything new.
Kind regards,
Natterjack
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Christening
26 April 1846
St Stephens Coleman Str, City of London
George Lulman, bn 24 Jan 1846, son of George and Ann of 33 Worship Street, Victualler
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Here's your family in 1841
LULHAM, Jane 50 Licensed Victualler Surrey
LULHAM, George 26 Coal Man Surrey
LULHAM, Julia 24 Surrey
LULHAM, Thomas 18 Engineer Surrey
LANCASTER, Edwin 24 HatterSurrey
LANCASTER, Sarah 20 Surrey
KELLY, James 22 Timber Merchant Surrey
SIBLEY, Thomas 21 M.S. Surrey
Piece:1067
Book/Folio:4/25
Page: 2
Registration District: Rotherhithe
Civil Parish: St Mary Rotherhithe
Municipal Borough:
Address: Neptune Street, Upper, St Mary Rotherhithe
County: Surrey
George the coal man (presumably single and living with widowed mother) becomes a licensed victualler by 1851, so looks like the father of George (Rosa and Charlotte's father)
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They also have a Henry chr at same church on 16 Jan 1848 (bn 27 Sep 1847)
Their address now 64 London Wall
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1851
LULHAM, George Head Married 37 Victualler Surrey
LULHAM, Ann Wife Married 28 London
LULHAM, Ann Daughter 1 London
LULHAM, George Son 5 Norton Folgate
LULHAM, Henry Son 3 London
ROSS, John Visitor Unmarried 36 Gentleman Coachman Docking, Surrey
LULHAM, Henry Brother Unmarried 33 Cheesemonger Surrey
MARTIN, Mary Ann Servant Unmarried 17 Domestic Servant London
SMITH, Robert Servant 15 1836 Potman London
Piece:1532
Folio:222
Page: 19
Registration District: City of London
Civil Parish: All Hallows London Wall
Municipal Borough: London
Address: 64, London Wall White House, All Hallows London Wall, London
County: Middlesex
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Looks like George senior from family search, date and place about right and mother called Jane so ties in with 1841 census
Name:George Lulham
Christening Date: 16 Jan 1814
Christening Place: ST MARY,ROTHERHITHE,LONDON,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 17 Dec 1813
Father's Name:Thomas Lulham
Mother's Name:Jane
So next step is find marriage of Thomas and Jane
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From FindMyPast
Thomas Lulham
Burial 17 Feb 1841
Age at Death:49
Address: Neptune Street
Buried:Rotherhithe, Surrey
So he didn't quite make the 1841 census. If agae at death is accurate, he wouls be born around 1791/2.
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I'm speechless... I'm trying to find the marriage myself - but so far with no luck again.
I think once I complete this.. I'm going to start on the Lulham's in Sussex on my husbands side - to see if anything meets up - as they had at some point lived in London - so may be connected further back.
Good luck to finding the marriage, if of course any one is up for it... my sources are presently blank.
Excellent details about Thomas's death - shame but such is life.
Many thanks again and kind regards.
Natterjack
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Thomas and Jane had the following children chr at Rotherhithe St Mary -
George 16 Jan 1814
Julia Jane 11 Feb 1816
Sarah Jane 23 July 1820
Thomas 18 Aug 1822
Dad Thomas is a Sawyer in each instance.
On one of them he is described as Thomas junior (Julia's I think it was) which implies there is an older Thomas Lulham around in the parish.
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Possible marriage for Thomas and Jane
26 Oct 1813
Stepney St Dunstan and All saints
Thomas Lulham , bachelor of Poplar to Jane Wilbourne, spinster of Poplar
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And - no evidence but worth keeping up your sleeve as a possible for his parents -
Stepney St Dunstan and all Saints
Marriage 21 Feb 1791
Thomas Lulham bachelor to Elizabeth Champfield spinster, of hamlet of Poplar
Both just made mark. Witness Sarah Bradley and Robert Newell
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Looks like Jane on 1851 census, but born Hertfordshire. I have found a lot of discrepancies between county of birth in 1841 and actual place. The enumerator only had to put Y or N in column for born in county of residence and mistakes were easily made. Also parish of residence prior to marriage can be a long way from birthplace
GROVES, Mary Ann Head Widow 65 1786 Deptford, Kent
HOPKINSON, Sarah A Daughter Widow 30 1821 Rotherhithe, Surrey
LULHAM, Jane Lodger Widow 60 1791 Hertfordshire
LULHAM, Thomas Son Unmarried 29 1822 Engineer Rotherhithe, Surrey
STELLAMAN, William Grand Son 12 1839 Scholar Rotherhithe, Surrey
Piece:1583
Folio:326
Page: 19
Registration District: Rotherhithe
Civil Parish: Rotherhithe
Municipal Borough: Southwark
Address: 17, Neptune Street, Rotherhithe, Southwark
County: Surrey
And probably death as no sign of her on 1861 census
Deaths Jun quarter 1860
LULHAM Jane
Rotherhithe 1d 330
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Thank you... just a shame that Thomas and Jane's marriage didn't give parents names... but nothing can be done about that.
So really all we can do is guess that the next marriage is a possibility. I even tried looking for a baptism record for him, but with no look as of yet.
Again thank you for everything that has been done for me. Very much appreciated.
Many kind regards,
Natterjack
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LULLHAM, Thomas 75 Sawyer not born in county
LULLHAM, Elizabeth 75 not born in county
LULLHAM, Charles 35 Engineer Surrey
Piece:1067
Book/Folio:6/38
Page: 26
Registration District: Rotherhithe
Civil Parish: Rotherhithe
Municipal Borough:
Address: Oak Place, Rotherhithe
County: Surrey
This looks like this Thomas's death from FindMyPast transcription since I can't find him in 1861.
Thomas Lulham
Forenames:Thomas
Burial 4 Dec 1843
Age at Death:78 (so year of birth abt 1765)
Where From:Bermondsey
Place Buried:Rotherhithe
County:Surrey
But there's also this Thomas of similar age who didn't make it to the 1841 census but would have been around when Thomas jnr's children where baptised.
Thomas LULHAM
Date of burial: 1836
Place of burial St Alphage, London Wall
Age at death:72
Approximate year of birth: 1764
Address at death: Not recorded
The couple on the census look like the marriage lizdb found for possible parents and the occupation is same as Thomas jnr
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Ok 2 people named Thomas Lulham born circa around the same time... reminds me of another family I have seen before.... Eek. This is where I've also seen mistakes made on my behalf.... though I usually figure it all out eventually.
Wonder if Elizabeth made it onto 1851, though some how doubt it and I would presume she would have died.. but you just never know.. people do astound me at times.
Yes I see what you mean about the sawyer reference.
Thanks once again.
Kind regards,
Natterjack