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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: alexnlp on Friday 09 August 13 11:06 BST (UK)
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I am researching the ancestors of Henry 'Harry' Owens born in Marylebone in about 1852
This is what I do know:
In the 1881 census he is living with wife Elizabeth and son Henry in Ipswich.
From the marriage certificate of Elizabeth Skeet and Harry Owens, his father is named as Thomas Owens, Stonemason.
Henry was in the army, and from records at Kew I know that he enlisted in the Royal Artillery as a Driver in 1872, fought at Tel El Kebir in 1882, transferred to the Remount Establishment in 1883 and left the army in 1884.
And that's it!
I haven't been able to find a birth or baptism for him, I haven't found him on any censuses apart from the 1881 census, and I've found no death for him - even though by 1891 Elizabeth is living in Deptford with her son Henry and is describing herself as a widow.
Any suggestions gratefully received!
I have done a fair bit of trawling through baptisms and censuses, but could easily have missed him.
I did come up with a Henry Thos Owens living and working in a London Drapers shop in 1871 which could be him, but his marriage cert and his military records at Kew give no middle name. And even this doesn't get me any closer to his family.
Thank you!
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His son Henry Charles Owens married Violet Elizabeth May and he died 22/2/1963 at Lister Hospital Hilchin did you have that
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Thanks Rosie.
I did have the link to Violet, who is my ggrandmother.
I got Henry Jnr's date of death from their gravestone, but I didn't know he died at the Lister Hospital -Thank you!!
:)
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According to his will that is what it says
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Thanks - I don't suppose you came across a will for his father Henry Owens in the London area did you?
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Never seen a will for Henry did come across a death on deceased on line for a Henry Thomas Owens died 27/5/1885 buried Woolwich Cemetery ( Greenwich ) You can view the record for £6.00 for so many credits it might be worthwhile doing that it might give you his occupation
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Never seen a will for Henry did come across a death on deceased on line for a Henry Thomas Owens died 27/5/1885 buried Woolwich Cemetery ( Greenwich ) You can view the record for £6.00 for so many credits it might be worthwhile doing that it might give you his occupation
The death for that one gives an age of 0 ie an infant ;D
Deaths Jun 1885
OWENS Henry Thomas age 0 Woolwich 1d 631
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oops !!!! just a thought :o
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Just noticed you had death for July the one I had was May
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Just noticed you had death for July the one I had was May
It is the June qtr (taken from freebmd) which covers April/May/June ;)
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Thank you Rosies both!
I had a death for Henry Owens aged 37 in Mar 1887 in West Ham, so right age, but when I got the certificate he was listed as a Clicker and I had found this Henry's family on the 1881 census too so not mine either.
I'll look at the deaths for Henry Thomas Owens and see if I can find an age for the one who died in May - thought I guess a May death would have been registered in June quarter.
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Looks like the infant Henry Thomas Owens is the only death of that name in 1885....
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Have you considered this Harry Owens in 1891 :-\
RG12/29 f82 p16
32 Bosworth Road, Kensington
Harry Owens age 40 labourer born Kensington
Mary Owens (wife) 42 Laundress bn Cork, Ireland
I can't see them in 1881 ::)
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That's certainly a possible... When I couldn't find a death before 1891, the other option was that he had left the family. And I wasn't sure if he had done that what he would be calling himself or where he would give as a place of birth. Is there any sign of them in 1901?
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I have his son Henry Charles and his wife Elizabeth in 1901 census and 1911 if you want to pm your e-mail address I will forward it on to you
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Thank you, Rosie17. I managed to find them in the censuses as when my Dad was small he lived with his grandparents. He knew that Pop (Henry jnr) lived with his widowed mother at a newsagents in London before marrying Nanny (Violet).
It's Henry jnr's father Henry/Harry snr and grandfather Thomas the stonemason that have me really flummoxed! :-\
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Hopefully something will turn up do you know who Thomas married
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No, I don't unfortunately. That's one of the frustrations of the failure to find him on the census records. :(
If he was born in 1850/51 (which 1881 census and Army records indicate) he should at least be in the 1861 census. The only Henry or Harry Owens that looked remotely possible in the 1861 census was this family living in Somers Town, Pancras:
John Owen 37 Stone Mason
Hannah Owen 33 Laundress
John Owen 12
Henry Owen 9
Elizth Owen 3
James Owen 7
All born in Pancras Middlesex
So the surname is slightly different, and the fathers first name is not the same as the marriage cert, but he is a stone mason!!!
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Can't see anything else on census. ::)
BUT
there is this marriage
Benjamin Thomas Owens (Widower)
Age 44
Spouse Mary Ann Payne
Age 33
13 August 1889
Lambeth - St Philip
Grooms Father Thomas Owens OCC Stone Mason
Brides Father John Payne
Could Benjamin be a brother of Harry ???
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Could be Benjamin 1871 census?
290 Dover Street Lambeth
Mary Owens 55 wid lodger born Trood & Raur Cardiganshire?
Benjamin Owens 25 son Labourer in Oil works born Cripplegate Middlesex
Lodgers with Alfred German 25 born Croydon & Mary Ann 29 born Tadworth and family.
Jennifer
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1861 census 27 Back Alley Southwark
Mary Owen (no S) 38 or 58? Seed Warehouse Carvenshire
Benjamin Owen son 17 Errand Boy Cripplegate
Jennifer
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This Benjamin still seems to be living with the German family as a lodger but at a different address in 1881 census.
16 Laytons Grove 35 Single born London.
Jennifer
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1851 census 5 Providence Place Southwark 1558 fol 237
Thomas Owen 41 Labourer Cardigan
Mary 36 Cardigan
Benjamin 9 City
John 12 hours Surrey
Benjamin Jones? 61 father in law Annuitant no place of birth shown
There is who looks to be an Ivan Jones 21 born Cardigan in the Thomas household above.
Jennifer
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Fantastic! Thank you - a crack in my brick wall ;D
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Found a Harry aged 7, with his mother Ellen Owens 45 she is widowed also in the house Joseph10.John4,William 1 all born Marylebone they are living 42,Exeter Street Middlesex
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Yes Rosie17 - I found a baptism for Henry Richard Owens with Ellen as his mother and a Joseph Owens soldier as his father in 1854 in St Marylebone in Middlesex.
A real shame, as the dates tied up!
It may be that he made up his father's name & occupation on his marriage certificate....
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Jenniferc
I checked baptisms for children with a father called Thomas Owens, and have one in Hammersmith in 1854 for John Thomas Owens, with the father Thomas and mother said to be Eliza. I couldn't read the fathers profession, as the digital image was very white all over!
I guess I should look for a death for Mary Owens between 1851 and 1854..
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And a Mary Owens died Jun quarter 1851 in West London.
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Don't forget they used the spelling 'Owen' as well.
Jennifer
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Thanks for all the suggestions - I cycled down to the library this morning and downloaded all the documents & have been looking through them. :D
First question I have is: Benjamin Thomas Owens and Mary Ann Payne were married by licence. Where would I find a copy of the licence application? I live in Surrey and am spoiled as all Surrey licences are transcribed and bound in a couple of printed volumes!
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And my second question about the marriage entry is:
Benjamin gives his occupation as Builder. Is this just an impressive way of saying labourer, or does it really mean a professional Builder?
Because the Benjamin in the census entries is Errand boy then labourer and porter in an Oil warehouse as late as 1881, and this entry says Builder and widower in 1891.
I wasn't able to find a first marriage for Benjamin in the parish records, but free bmd shows Benjamin Owen marrying Sarah Roffey or Tucker in St Saviour reg district in Dec 1882. Maybe they married at the register office.
And a Sarah Owen dies aged 37 in Whitechapel in Jun 1883.
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Arghhhh! :o
I have been hunting through the new documents to find a mention of my Henry Owen(s). I couldn't find one, so I started searching for potential alternative names he could have been using.
I went back to my photos of the Description Book for the Royal Artillery for the date Henry Owens is said (in other army records) to have joined. I couldn't find a Henry Owen(s) when I first searched it.
What I now notice is a William Henry Ewins is listed. ::) What if William Henry Ewins became Henry Owens during his army service?
Are there any records for Thomas Ewins stone mason who had sons William Henry and Benjamin Thomas anywhere?!
Thank you!!
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I have checked out the William Henry Ewins link, and it is a red herring. I have found William Henry Ewins in the 1881 census when I have my Henry Owens elsewhere.
So I'm back to my original puzzle.
Many thanks for the help with this - the possible brother Benjamin is a great new angle. Just a shame that Henry hasn't been in a census with him.
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Again a big thank you for all the help - especially Jennifer c and Rosie 17 :)
After you made your suggestions, I traced Benjamin's family as far as I could. I haven't found him in any censuses after his wedding in 1889 to Mary Ann Payne, but I have the complete set before that.
There is a fair chance that 'John Owen' aged 12 hours may have been named Henry Owen in the end, so this could really be them. :D
And I am missing Henry/Harry in 1861, when Benjamin was living with mum Mary in Back Alley, St Saviour Southwark.
I have found a Henry Owen in Stepney Workhouse in 1861, but the name is a bit too common to be sure. Limehouse is 3 miles from St Saviour where Benjamin and mum Mary were living, and I imagine parishes weren't that keen to take in other parishes poor. But Henry's place of birth is listed as unknown in the poor house census, so still possible. The parents of Benjamin were Welsh - are there any chapel records for St Saviour Southwark? Baptism records especially.
Thanks again for all the help :)