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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: Miss.ellie on Thursday 08 August 13 09:09 BST (UK)
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I've been reading up a little on this subject but I'm still not sure how to go about it. My brother and I are tracing our paternal line but we only have a strong theory concerning the parentage of our paternal grandfather.
Does anyone how you go about this and how much it costs, as we would like to prove or disprove our theory.
Thank you
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As I understand it you have a male line from your grandfather (ie grandfather, father, your brother) and you have a possible name for the great grandfather. By far the easiest would be if your brother and a direct male line descendant of the alleged great grandfather could do a Y DNA test as there would be a strong correlation if true. However this requires you to be able to persuade the descendant of the alleged great grandfather to also take the test. If this was not possible you could get your brother to take a Y DNA test with a site like www.ftdna.com and compare it with their surname groups. However this is a bit hit and miss as
1. genealogical DNA testing is very much a minority think
2. most of the testers are actually American
3. not everyone who tests reveals their results
I would have a further look at the ftDNA website and see if there is a group for the surname you are searching and whether its worth going down this track.
Alternatively if the name is confined to a small geographical area you could put an advert in a family history magazine or the magazine of the appropriate local family history society to see if someone with a proven lineage back to the suspected person would also test
The ftdna.com website has a range of tests and prices to match worth a look, there are other testers but I have quoted this one as it is the biggest
Hopefully someone more knowledgeable in the subject will come forward and give some more suggestions
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Thank you for your detailed answer, much appreciated. The family we're tracing is very complicated.
My paternal grandparents Harold and Joan were second cousins, that is Harold's maternal grandmother was the sister of Joan's father ( Beresford). The other Beresford sibling was named May, May married R Judd , and had one child Reg, reg has one son G. We believe our grandfather was the illegitimate son of R Judd.
As G Judd, myself and my brother will have Beresford blood , will this complicate determining the Judd heritage and thus determine the father of Harold. The only 'proof' that we have is the strong similarity between Harold and R Judd,at different phases of their lives and also some similarities between other members of the family which we believe are too strong to overlook as coincidence.
Any advice would be appreciated, thank you.
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So if I have the families right it is
family 1 R Judd, Reg Judd, G Judd
family 2 grandfather, your father, your brother
You think your grandfather is the son of R Judd, there your brother and G Judd would be cousins once removed.
Therefore if all this was correct and the two took a Y DNA test at 37 or 67 markers it would show a very high correlation (http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers.aspx?id=8#511 has a little table showing how likely a match is at 5.). The higher number of markers tested the better more reliable results you will get.
So on the face of it looks like a good way forward - however I would wait and see what those more expert say in the next day or two
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Thank you. Yes that's right, the thing is though does the beresford factor affect the results ?
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Thank you. Yes that's right, the thing is though does the beresford factor affect the results ?
Not for this particular test, that is why I only mentioned the Y DNA test as it only tests the genes passed down from father to son to grandson etc ie male line only
That is also why I keep saying your brother as you can not take this test being female
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Thank you for clarifying, I read previously about the Y chromosome test and discussed with my brother who would be happy to take the test. We have previously relayed our theory to G who agreed there were distinct similarities in the photographs we showed him, so hopefully he may help us to clarify this mystery for once and all.
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Good luck with whatever you decide and hopefully one or two of the more knowledgeable posters such as supermoussi or DevonCruwys amongst others will see the thread and also comment
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Thank you again for your help, much appreciated :)
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So if I have the families right it is
family 1 R Judd, Reg Judd, G Judd
family 2 grandfather, your father, your brother
You think your grandfather is the son of R Judd, there your brother and G Judd would be cousins once removed.
Therefore if all this was correct and the two took a Y DNA test at 37 or 67 markers it would show a very high correlation (http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers.aspx?id=8#511 has a little table showing how likely a match is at 5.). The higher number of markers tested the better more reliable results you will get.
So on the face of it looks like a good way forward - however I would wait and see what those more expert say in the next day or two
You are doing fine by yourself David. :D
In terms of Y-DNA tests the only things I would stress are:-
* if the Y-DNA of G Judd and the op's brother match it DOES prove that they belong to the same Judd family, but NOT that Harold Judd was the son of R Judd, although in view of the circumstances it is very likely that he was. For example, another possibility is that Harold Judd was the son of one of R Judd's brothers or cousins?
* I would suggest a 111 marker test, perhaps a 67 marker one, but not a 37 marker test as they can sometimes be ambiguous. More is better.
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Thanks for clarifying, this DNA thing is very confusing
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Maybe an outsiders view will simplify things (or not?). You say that
"there was a strong similarity between Harold and R Judd,at different phases of their lives and also some similarities between other members of the family which we believe are too strong to overlook as coincidence."
Yes?
If so, if you find a Y-DNA STR match between your brother and G Judd then it will prove categorically beyond doubt that they are part of the same Judd family. Simples!
Whether R Judd was Harold Judd's father or uncle or cousin once removed are not really the main thing you want to find out as physical characteristics can bounce around the generations, missing one person then popping up in another. :)
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Yes, the resemblances were uncanny..
It sounds as though the DNA test is the way forward. Do you know where we get the tests and how we go about conducting them please?
Thanks
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Just order them here http://www.familytreedna.com/products.aspx (http://www.familytreedna.com/products.aspx)
The Y-DNA67 test is arguably the best compromise in your circumstances, the Y-DNA111 would give a better accuracy prediction of how closely the 2 men are related but would still not prove it, and you might well get a good result with the Y-DNA37 test but then again run the risk of getting an ambiguous result. Once you have ordered online they send you instructions and everything you need to test.
Incidentally, did R Judd have brothers and male cousins in the same area as him?
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Thank you, I'll speak to my brother about this as he was in contact with a suitable candidate for the DNA test.
As far as I am aware the family originates from Shropshire, the Judd's were a large family, as yet though I haven't gone into great detail with the family.
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I just asked because it obviously can be strong circumstantial evidence in itself. The two main outcomes of a Y-DNA test will be:-
1) Harold definitely unrelated to R Judd within the last 700 yrs
2) Harold and R Judd share the same "Judd" Y-DNA
If it proves to be the latter and the match suggests a recent relationship then if you find that R Judd was the only virile male Judd in the vicinity then it would be a bit of a "smoking gun"...
If there were lots of male Judds running around the area then there are obviously many more potential candidiates.
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Hi Ellie,
Just to let you know that I have in the last few months ordered 2 Y-DNA tests on my
son and also on one of my Brothers. I did not do the full one as I didn't have the money
which is a shame. So I just got a basic test on both of them. You have to pay online
then they send you a test kit in the post from the USA. In the test kit there are two phials
and 2 sticks You have to not eat or drink for a while before you do one of the tests
by scraping the inside of your cheek in the mouth for about a minute. You then put the
end of the stick in the phial. You then redo this same test in a few hours and again not
straight after food or drink. You then post it back to them and get your results by e mail
about 5 weeks later.
I was really chuffed with the results even though it was only the minimum They do have
sales and reduce the kits on occasions and that's when I bought the two mentioned.
They also state that if it isn't enough and you eventually want to go further with the testing
they can add it to the already information they have for you. When I can afford it I will
go for that. I did have the minimum Mitochondrial for myself but didn't find as much
information as the male line one had so will probably have to go for more information on
my own. Still very interesting though. I used the familytreedna site in the USA.