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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: davbarkay on Wednesday 07 August 13 18:09 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I'm new to this site. I've been trying to research my 2nd great grandfather, Isaac Nation Reeves, c. 1831-1837. His father was George Reeves and mother Isabella Daw. He moved to the US c. 1850 - 1865. 1st wife Anna Maria (maiden name unknown), who died Dec 1874 in Brooklyn, NY. 2nd wife, Susan Elizabeth DDowling, married Brooklyn, NY 1875. They had a daughter Georgiana Reeves born c. 1876 in Brooklyn, NY. Isaac died 1890 and Susan died 1891, both in Brooklyn. Any help or tips on birth/marriage records for Isaac and/or his parents would be much appreciated.
Thank you,
Dave
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Bristol is in two counties; Somerset and Gloucestershire, but is a county in its own right.
I tried to have a look for him in the 1841 and 1851 censuses, but couldn't find anything.
May I ask why you think he was from Bristol?
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Bristol is listed as his place of birth on the marriage certificate with his second wife. That is also where I retrieved his mother's & father's names.
Dave
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Welcome Dave :)
I had a bit of a scout around but have largely drawn a blank so far.
I saw a tree online (possibly yours) attaching a death notice for Anna Maria who died on 25 December 1874 in her 47th year. This would put her birthdate likely in 1828. If that is right I wonder whether Isaac was a bit older than he later claimed to be?
Do you have a copy of Anna Maria's Brooklyn death record? I don't know whether that would give a maiden name or birthplace for her...?
Has Isaac been found in any census before 1880?
Have his naturalization records (if any) been obtained? You may have seen the possible index entry.
If Isaac's death certificate gives parents' details, are they consistent with those named when he remarried?
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Hi and thank you for checking the records for me. Yes, I suspect you found the obit which I posted for Anna Maria on my Ancestry.com Family Tree (Nelson Family Tree). Her death certificate does not list her parents, her DOB or place of birth, other than England. Age is as per certificate, so I approximated 1828. It noted her as a New York City resident for approximately 5 years (c. 1869), which seems consistent with City Directory entries for Isaac 1869-1888. (He was a butcher and had a shop in Brooklyn, NY for years.)
Isaac's death certificate also puts his immigration in this period. (Other than finding an Isaac Reeves in an Naturalization Index, I have had no success in finding naturalization records for him). I have he, his second wife Susan E. and daughter Georgiana on the 1880 US Census. Between the census info, his marriage certificate, (which does not list his actual birthday), and his death certificate, I have established the range of his birth c. 1830-1837, since they all record different ages!? So, it is certainly possible that he is even older, based upon the age of his 1st wife. (Same problems with his daughter, Georgiana, but that's another story, as per family oral history.)
I was also hoping that I could get a link to, or through, his parents, George Reeves and Isabella Daw, but no luck so far. Lots of George Reeves' to sort through, and no luck with Isabella Daw. It generally seems difficult tracking female relatives mid - 19th Century and back. Again, his parents names and his place of birth are coming form his marriage certificate in 1875. I would guess his parents were born c. 1810, and have tried running a variety of search parameters through Ancestry.com, without any luck.
The only other clue I have is a possible son, (or brother) named George, based upon a notation written on the reverse of a period family photograph. Again, I've tried every search variable and database I could, but still no luck. As a final aside, family tradition holds that they are related ot a Reeves, (or Peter Reeves) chain of stores in England, but I cannot find any record or reference to such a store or chain online. Can anyone provide any info regarding the store/chain?
I appreciate everyones help and interest and welcome any tips or references that might help with research, especially in the UK. We have lots to keep researching in England, Wales, Scotland & Northern Ireland, and (understandably and regretfully), a lot of the records seem to have been lost or destroyed over the years.
Thanks again,
Dave
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P.S. regarding the obit for Anna Maria, I also contacted the IOOF (Odd Fellows) in hopes of finding some records, but I was informed any records from her (their) lodge were long lost/destroyed. I've been trying every link I can find....
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Not in England, but have you considered this chain of stores?
www.hometoclare.com/clarepeople/peter-reeves
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Much appreciated, thank you. :)
This will certainly bear some looking into. I will drop a quick post to let you know how it went.
Thanks, Dave
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Having drawn a blank with REEVES as his original surname, it may be worth having a look at this Isaac NATION, b 1826 in Somerset.
1826 (25 Dec): Date of birth, per baptism record on FreeREG: www.rootschat.com/links/0vlv
1827 (10 Feb): Baptised at Stogumber to parents George (labourer) and Isabella, of Lower Vexford.
1841: In service on a farm in Stogumber, aged 15. HO107/966 bk11 f46 p9.
1846: Possible marriage to Anna KNIGHT, Bedminster Sep qtr 1846 per FreeBMD.
1851: With wife "Hannah" (who is b abt 1828 Bridgewater) - in Wales. HO107/2461/731/24.
1861: With wife "Ann" (b abt 1827 Somerset) in Bristol - Isaac as a tea dealer. RG9/1722/126/29.
Thereafter - he and Ann/Anna/Hannah disappear from English records.
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Other children of the NATION family:
George, 1820: www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Baptisms&RecordID=4688955
William, 1827: www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Baptisms&RecordID=4689129
Mary, 1830: www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Baptisms&RecordID=4714350
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An online tree of this NATION family gives Isabella's surname as DAW:
www.nationstudy.com/getperson.php?personID=I7803&tree=NationStudy
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This site has short details of Crowcombe marriages - scroll down to 11/1/1819 for George NATION and Isabella DAW:
www.wsom.org.uk/Registers/CrowMar17511837.htm
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Wow, this will certaily keep me busy! Excellent! :)
Curiously enough, I see an Anna Knight, and I believe the mothe rof his second wife is Eliza Knight, but it's hard to decipher the last name.
Can't wait to dive in...
Dave
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The Isaac Nation info "fits". It's highly plausible, if not probable, that it is "him". Certainly the best lead I've had. Thank you. :) Now just have to find where the name change came in. Thank you.
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You're welcome :)
Does Isaac's brother George appear in a photograph with Isaac - and if so what sort of age are they?
I'm wondering whether George Nation also emigrated. He seems to have joined the LDS Church in Bristol in 1848, married a Mary Ann (Rashleigh, 1848 Bedminster according to the online tree, though I can't see it on FreeBMD) and been in Bristol with his wife, mother-in-law Hester Rashleigh, mother Isabella and sister Mary in Bristol in 1851.
Mary Ann "Rashley" appears in the LDS records with spouse George Nation.
Perhaps they had an LDS ceremony? I'm no expert on the subject but I don't think that would have been a lawful marriage registered in England.
I can't see George in England after 1851.
Added: but George may have died Jun qtr 1859 Clifton.
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No, the pictures are individuals and are not 100% identifiable. They have notations on the reverse, but copies over the years have different identifications" on the reverse. The "brothers" also look younger. While definately worth including in my Tree, I do make a notation regarding the "multiple identifications".
As to George Nation, b. 1832, it would seem that he settled in Salt Lake City, UT and died 30 Mar 1896, as per https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F85Z-N7F. (Let me know if the link works. I'm still trying to navigate around Rootschat.) Mother Isabel, father George. "Best part, he has the surname of Reeves! So, presumably, this would fit with his LDS affiliation.
It will take awhile to run down these leads, but they all seem to point in the right direction. If it's not "them", then they have a bunch of twins named Reeves!
As far as Isaac goes, he was on his second marriage in 1875 when he married Susan E. Dowling. It is possible 1st wife Anna Maria was one in the same with Ann, Anna of Hannah, as per your earlier lead. Speculative, but not impossible. He is buried in Greenwood Cemetery, Brooklyn, NY, with his first & second wives, (plot cards & cemetery records did not provide any info other than the fact that he was married previously lost his 1st wife Dec 1874. No maiden name or next of kin listed.) Only "found his grave last year, and it wasn't too far from where I grew up. His daughter is in the same cemetery, all unmarked graves. Sad, but at least they've been "found".
I also found a Tree for Isabella Daw on FamilySearch (archives.com).
I'm going to keep "running" all of them until I sort this out!
This is very much appreciated.
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Oh - that George Reeves find in Salt Lake City is brilliant! They've got the DOB (1832) wrong of course as he was baptised first in Sep 1820 and his LDS baptism in 1848 gives his birthdate as 2 Aug 1820.
Perhaps he (like Isaac) was prone to losing a few years as he went along :)
It does seem weird that they both adopted the name Reeves in adulthood - it's not as though they were orphaned or anything. If there was a connection to those Reeves chain stores there would have to be a link with the Irish Reeves family which started them. Hmmm...
It does eliminate one theory I had - that Isaac had to emigrate and reinvent himself with a new name after (e.g.) a business failure or brush with the law in England. If George also took the name Reeves that theory doesn't work.
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This side of the family seems to have a tradition of varying their ages, (and forenames), so now maybe I know where it came from. LOL! Also, the info regarding the Reeves "chain" comes c. 1930-1940's(?), in that there was some type of probate going on in England, and they were looking for relatives. Could be a myth, but my grandmother and father always stood by the story. Would be well after any name change, so I don't know what to make of it.
I don't know too much about LDS, but is there any tradition of changing surnames that you are aware of? Also, I never heard of an LDS connection with the family, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be.
As always, one door opens another!
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Was also trying to find if Isabella remarried since George Nation died 1831. Perhaps the stepfather was Reeves, and the children took his name? No luck on that search yet, but could also be a plausible explanation.
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Oooh - sister Mary seems to have gone too!
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F85V-N8K
I response to your question, I'm afraid I know absolutely nothing about LDS re name changing etc.
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Isabella Nation (b abt 1792 Stogumber) was still a widow in 1861, in Bristol (Clifton district) with married daughter Mary Kelsen, 29. RG9/1735/35/15.
Isabella seems to have died in the name Nation in Mar qtr 1865 Clifton.
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Oooh - sister Mary seems to have gone too!
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F85V-N8K
Mary Nation, born Somerset 10 Jun 1830, was baptised in the LDS Church in Bristol on 20 Sep 1848.
Her husband appears to have been John Hezekiah Kelson, who died in Salt Lake City in 1921.
The 1900 census shows their immigration date as 1861.
From passenger lists it looks as though they arrived in New York on the SS Underwriter on 22 May 1861, travelling to Utah (as was everyone else on the page).
See also http://user.xmission.com/~nelsonb/ship_list.htm for reference to the ship.
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Yes, saw Mary (briefly) as well. Lots to research!
Thanks for looking at Isabella again Re: remarriage. Was hoping for an easy "fix" to the "name game"! Haven't found Isaac Reeves on any immigration/passenger lists to date, and searches for Isaac Nation today haven't yielded anything (yet).
I still think this is the right connection though. I will try to upload Isaac's picture, (if I can figure it out), just to "put a name with a face".
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Some interesting Nation and Kelson entries on this site, including one for Isabella Nation:
http://mormonmigration.lib.byu.edu
Suggest you look at the images where available for the identity of the travelling group, as entries where the surname is dittoed (rather than written out in full) do not appear in the search results.
Oddly the younger women are referred to as spinsters - this seems to apply even to Mary when she is travelling with husband John H Kelson in the spring of 1861, shortly after their marriage (Clifton, Mar qtr 1861).
I still can't see (1) any sign of how/when Isaac crossed the Atlantic or (2) any of the emigrants in the 1870 census.
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Interesting that Isabella went over, in addition to the other entries. JH Kelson was an Elder, I see. I wonder, (assume), how much influence he had on the other members of the family and their oversears journey?
As an aside, Georgian May K. Reeves, daughter of Isaac & Susan E., was supposed to be Georgiana May Kolsom (sounds like Colsom) Reeves, as per my father. I never saw a notation for what the "K" stood for, but now I wonder if it could actually have been Kelson, (propably mispronounced through out Brooklyn accents, LOL!). Food for thought anyway, I light of these recent findings.