RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: custard_pot on Monday 05 August 13 17:01 BST (UK)

Title: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Monday 05 August 13 17:01 BST (UK)
Hi I am new on here... I am thinking of going to Warwick to do some research on my family history. Am I right in thinking I would go to Warwickshire County Record Office
Email
recordoffice@warwickshire.gov.uk
Telephone
+44 (0) 1926 738959
... Fax
+44 (0) 1926 738969
Address
Priory Park
Cape Road
Warwick
CV34 4JS

My mother was born at Whitnash Warwickshire and Lived there until she married my father at 21 years old. I am having great problems with her fathers side of the family and hoping I can get some answers there.

I would also like to see where my mother came from and hopefully find where her mum and dad are buried.

Any help with telling me where I need to go would be gratefully recieved and also any B&B or simular at reasonable cost nearby.

Thanking you in advance
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Tuesday 06 August 13 12:01 BST (UK)
Warks. RO is the place to go but due to cuts opening times are limited & it's best to go to their website & check this.
You will also need a C.A.R.N. in order to get in which you can get from there but you will need to provide I.D.
You say you are having problems with a branch of your family, it may be a good idea to ask on here first although you can't mention anyone still alive. We may then be able to better advise.
The Warks. PR's are now online so we may be able to save you a journey.

jim
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Wednesday 07 August 13 00:18 BST (UK)
Thank you for your reply Jim. The side of the family I am having trouble with is very awkward, for a start the name is Smith and and the family that is left know very little about my Grandfather.

The information I have is

According to 1939 Registration he was born 08/06/1886 and according to 1911 census was born at Aston.

His name was Frederick Smith. His father was named George or George Edward

I know my Grandfather was called up for 1st WW but was not in for long as far as I can make out and was discharged through ill health. Though saying that on my mothers birth certificate and her marriage certificate and 1911 census he is down as a army pensioner.

He married my grandmother, Alice Young 30th May 1908 at the Parish Church, Whitnash.

The lived first at the Barracks Whitnash then when everyone was moved from there they moved to 7 Halls Close Warwickshire.

They had 4 children.

My grandmother died 15 Jun 1952 at Whitnash. Grandfather died 18 Jan 1961 at Leamington Spa.

I would still like to go and see where my mum came from but if I could get some help before I go that would be great.
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: shyster2008 on Wednesday 07 August 13 00:26 BST (UK)
Hi Custardpot.

Will get back to you Tomorrow...

Might have some Information for you OK?

Sorry for the short reply..

Brian.
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Wednesday 07 August 13 09:00 BST (UK)
Thank you Brian
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Wednesday 07 August 13 11:04 BST (UK)
You may already have this
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Wednesday 07 August 13 12:04 BST (UK)
A possible match for Frederick,sister Elizabeth may be the witness.
Frederick Smith
christening: 9 March 1887 Aston-Brook, Birmingham
father:George Smith
mother:Hannah Smith

Elizabeth Smith
christening: 11 September 1889 Aston-Brook, Birmingham
father:George Smith
mother:Hannah Smith

Henry Smith
christening: 2 December 1891 Aston-Brook, Birmingham
father:George Smith
mother:Hannah Smith

I think this is them in 1901 in Erdington which is practically the same place as Aston Brook.
RG13; Piece: 2874; Folio: 88; Page: 19.
George Smith 48/ gen. lab./Erdington
Hannah Smith 49/Do.
William Smith 18/Aston
Fred Smith 14/Do.
Elizabeth Smith 11/Nechells
Henry Smith 9/Do.

Possible for 1881:
RG11; Piece: 3045; Folio: 15; Page: 24

Possible marriage:
22 March 1874 St.Peter's & St. Paul's Aston.
George Smith=Hannah Shaw.




 


 
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Wednesday 07 August 13 15:07 BST (UK)
Hi Jim sorry I have not replied before but just got back from the hospital. The marriage certificate someone sent me but was not a good copy and yours is a lot better so thank you for that.

Yes I thought Elizabeth was his sister and I did find that 1901 census but cannot find them on 1891. I cannot find any army pension records either.

Thank you for your help

Christine
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Wednesday 07 August 13 15:29 BST (UK)
I can't find any suitable pension records.
There's was 1 Frederick Smith attested July 1904 aged 19y 3 m b. B'ham but he was in the Lancs. not the Warwicks & his age is out.
I can't find them in 1891 either but I think the 1881 census is them & the marriage.
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Wednesday 07 August 13 15:42 BST (UK)
Found Elizabeth & Hannah in 1911:
RG14; Piece: 18259.

I think there's another child of George & Hannah:
Nelly Smith Ch. Feb. 1885 Aston Brook
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Wednesday 07 August 13 21:53 BST (UK)
Thank you very much Jim for all that information it has helped a great deal.

By the way it is not Frederick in 1904. He was not in forces when he married in 1908, he went into the army in WW1.

I can now search more and hopefully find more information, sometimes thats all it needs isn't it, another pair of eyes.

Christine
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Wednesday 07 August 13 22:15 BST (UK)
Jim just reading through your posts I have just seen you have baptisms for Frederick, Elizabeth and Henry, please can you tell me where you got these from.

Thanking you Christine
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 08 August 13 11:10 BST (UK)
The births came from IGI by putting in Smith with parents George & Hannah from 1874.
There are several but I was only looking at those living in North B'ham.
I see that Whitnash Barracks was a row of cottages & not Regimental as I thought.
Did you get much help from the Whitnash Tymes ?
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Thursday 08 August 13 12:10 BST (UK)
hi Jim

Yes I looked on Findmypast parish records and got nothing so went on Familysearch and found the baptisms for Frederick, Elizabeth and Henry. I agree with you looks as if there is Nelly as well. I then tried looking for the children on 1881 census but I could not find Hannah Mary or George C but found Joseph John and I found another one William Thomas baptised 11 Feb 1883 at Aston Warwick, Indexing Number I02352-6, film Number 1545528.

Seems strange how the first 4 children had 2 first names and the later ones only had 1.

You have helped me a great deal as I was really struggling. Even cousins I have in Warwickshire did not know anything about him and my mother hardly spoke about him.

That is a new photo of the Baracks I have 2 others. My Grandmother is definately on one of them, or so I have been told and looking at the one you put on she could be in that one. Unfortunately my grandmother died before I was born and I never got to see any of my relatives in Warwickshire. I am hoping when I go to meet up with a couple of cousins who still live there.

I got a couple of replies when I put a request in Whitnash Tymes, one from an old gentleman who lived a few doors down from them on the Barracks and new my mother and one from a neigbour on Halls Close but they really could not give me much information.

I do know that when Frederick came out of the Army he was a postman for a while.

Christine
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 08 August 13 14:24 BST (UK)
I don't think your Grandmother is in this as this was taken late 1890's ( I do photo dating as well ).
As Frederick went in 1914 he could have gone into any of the Regiments that needed men which was most of them.
Had he gone in earlier as I thought he would have gone into the R. War. Reg.
There seems to be 8 children in all, Hannah; George; Joseph; William; Frederick; Elizabeth; Henry & Nelly.
To go back further you will need one of these births to see if the mother in Hannah Shaw as per the 1874 marriage & then that marriage cert.
He could be this George:
RG 9; Piece: 2186; Folio: 17; Page: 27
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Thursday 08 August 13 17:43 BST (UK)
Yes thank you Jim I will see about getting one of the birth certificates.

Thank you for all your help

Christine
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 08 August 13 19:55 BST (UK)
Let us know how you get on.

jim
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives - Updated
Post by: custard_pot on Wednesday 28 August 13 13:10 BST (UK)
Hi Jim hope you are still watching this post.

I recieved Birth Certificate for George Charles Smith (hopefully brother of Frederick) today and it looks like what you helped me find could be right.

He was born 18th July 1877 at Ely Place, Litchfield Road, Aston Manor.

Father: George Smith
Mother: Hannah Smith Formerly SHAW

Occupation of Father: Canal Boatman - That is the only thing that is different as on Fredericks Marriage certificate he is down as Cellar-man

I sent for the George Charles certificate as I thought with 2 first names it might be better. I am thinking of sending for a couple more now including one that I think might be Fredericks.

Christine
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Wednesday 28 August 13 14:35 BST (UK)
Quote
I am thinking of sending for a couple more now including one that I think might be Fredericks.
Frederick has to be from this family because there's no one else with the same family profile.
I think your money would be better spent getting George & Hannah's marriage cert.
You are looking for father Charles.
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Wednesday 28 August 13 19:48 BST (UK)
Yes your right Jim I will get the marriage certificate

Christine
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Friday 06 September 13 16:08 BST (UK)
Hi Jim just recieved marriage certificate for George Smith and Hannah shaw and it looks right.

I also sent for a birth for a Frederick Smith but it was not the right one unfortunately.

Christine
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Friday 06 September 13 17:15 BST (UK)
This looks like your George in 1861:
RG 9; Piece: 2186; Folio: 17; Page: 27
&
in 1851: his parents living with his in-laws so you now know George's mother's maiden name:
HO107; Piece: 2024; Folio: 251; Page: 11
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Friday 06 September 13 20:03 BST (UK)
Thank you Jim that gets me further and I am just trying to make arrangements to go to Warwick but having problems getting cheap accomadation.

That gets me a long way with a family I thought I would get nowhere with.

Are you any good on Devonshire families as well Jim perhaps you can sort out a family that has got loads of people stumped lol

Christine
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Friday 06 September 13 22:06 BST (UK)
this is the nearest to the RO. & about 5 mins walk from the station.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0w0h/ 
other side of the park where the RO is situated is this one.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0w0i/
Cheapest so far at £62.00 per night:
http://www.sevenstarswarwick.co.uk/Rates.html
This one £52.00 per night:
http://www.jerseyvillaguesthouse.co.uk/find.html

Quote
Are you any good on Devonshire families as well Jim perhaps you can sort out a family that has got loads of people stumped lol
Have you tried the County board ?
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Monday 09 September 13 09:33 BST (UK)
Yes Jim I have tried the County board on here, BBC forum when that was on, BG Forums, Ancestry Forums, Genes Reunited Forum, and I am a member of Devon Family History Society so used there board. I have done it several times on them all. I am also in touch with the daughter of my Grandmothers sister and she has the same problem.

Christine
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Monday 09 September 13 12:14 BST (UK)
Can you give a link to the post.
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Tuesday 10 September 13 09:37 BST (UK)
Hi Jim

I have done a search on the Devon board as it is a while ago that I did a post on there these are all the threads that came up.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=447838.msg4158597#msg4158597

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=354129.msg2318575#msg2318575

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=160023.msg775098#msg775098

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=159525.msg742770#msg742770

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=174092.msg830223#msg830223

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=227409.msg1204244#msg1204244

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=391137.0

Christine
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Tuesday 10 September 13 09:53 BST (UK)
I'm out of the UK for a while so I'll have a look when I get back.
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Sunday 29 September 13 09:51 BST (UK)
Hi Jim

Went to Warwickshire Archives unfortunately records for Aston and other places for the Smith's are at Birmingham even though on Website for Warwickshire Archives it gives a place code for Aston. :(

I thought ok I can still get information o the Young's from Whitnash, but the gentleman I asked at the Archives said a lot of the records were still at the church in Whitnash. I found some records that might help and went on Fiche. I was there from about 9:30am til 5pm and just as I was leaving I was talking to the Lady on the desk and found out they had virtually all the records I wanted on Whitnash families. When I told her about what I had been told by the gentleman she said he had looked in the wrong book and at the moment his mind is not on the job. The only thing he had told me right was about the records for Smith family. >:(

Unfortunately I did not have the opportunity to go back to the Archives. I spent Wednesday in Whitnash which was great. I found, with the vicars help, the unmarked grave of my Granny and Grandad, I saw the house they lived in but could not find anyone who knew where the Barracks were but found out after it was very near the church. I met 2 of the relatives on that day as well.

I met more relatives the next day and more on Friday before I came home.

In fact I have come home to rest lol. ;) I am hoping to get the opportunity to possibly go to Birmingham Archives though don't know if I could manage that on my own.

Christine
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Sunday 29 September 13 11:26 BST (UK)
While I've been away Ancestry have put up the B'ham & Aston PR's.Although not quite complete yet I can give you the Smith lineup.
Christening at St.Clement's Nechells:
Living at Lichfield Rd.(Ely Place)
George Charles Ch.29/7/1877
Births at St.Peter's & St.Paul's Aston:
Living at Lichfield Rd.
Alice Hannah b.16/11/1878
Joseph John b.22/2/1879
William Thomas b.15/12/1882
St.Mary's Aston Brook:
Living at Grosvenor St.
Nelly b.21/1/1885
Frederick b.14/2/1888
Living at Chattaway St. Nechells
Elizabeth b.3/8/1889
Henry b.6/11/1891
Father's occ on all:labourer

I can give you George's 10 siblings & Charles & Hannah's marriage if you want them.


Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Sunday 29 September 13 20:33 BST (UK)
Hi Jim

I have quickly looked at the Ancestry records and cannot see the record for Frederick that you found but found this one

Name: Frederick Smith
Birth Date: 14 Feb 1887
Baptism Date: 9 Mar 1887
Baptism Place: Aston Brook, St Mary, Warwickshire, England
Father: George Smith
Mother: Hannah Smith
Reference Number: DRO31
Archive Roll: 673

As I said only had a quick look. I am trying to sort out all the information I got in Warwickshire from family and the archives. I am trying to update trees as well as I have one on my computer that includes everyone and one on Genes and Ancestry that no living relatives.

Christine
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Monday 30 September 13 11:48 BST (UK)
Yes 1887 my mistake.
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Monday 30 September 13 18:58 BST (UK)
Quote: I can give you George's 10 siblings & Charles & Hannah's marriage if you want them.

Yes please Jim I have only got only 3 siblings for George, Charles b. 1855, Thomas b. 1857 and Emma b. 1859.

I have Charles and Hannah's marriage as
1850
 13 Oct
— Age: 21
 Aston Juxta Birmingham,Warwick,EnglandIndexing Project (Batch) Number: M01168-4 System Origin: England-ODM GS Film number: 0919797-799, 0919800, 0918845-46

Thank you
Christine
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Monday 30 September 13 20:09 BST (UK)
That's the correct marriage as they are with the Judd family in 1851.
These are all the children:
1851 William St. John the Evangelist Perry Barr
1852 George
1854 Charles
1856 Thomas
1859 Emma
1861 Henry
1862 Alfred
1864 Mary Ann
1866 Joseph John
1869 John
1873 Alice Hannah
all St.Barnabas Erdington.
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Tuesday 01 October 13 09:33 BST (UK)
Thankyou very much Jim
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Saturday 05 October 13 14:16 BST (UK)
Jim I have now got my grandfathers birth certificate

What I cannot understand is why on 1939 registration did he say his DOB was 8/6/1886

Christine
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: jim1 on Sunday 06 October 13 18:18 BST (UK)
Quote
What I cannot understand is why on 1939 registration did he say his DOB was 8/6/1886
If this was his death cert. it wouldn't have been him saying it.

jim
Title: Re: Warwickshire Archives
Post by: custard_pot on Sunday 06 October 13 22:36 BST (UK)
No jim the 1939 registration was done in WW2 which was a National registration of everyone in the Country. This is the one I got before they started charging for them. :D

Information Request – Freedom of Information Act 2000

I can confirm that the NHS Information Centre for Health and Social Care has considered your query dated the 27th January 2010

“I wish to request under the Freedom of Information Act details of the
residents of 7 Halls Close, Whitnash, Warwickshire from the 1939 National
Registration.”

Thank you for your query into the organisation.  A search has been carried out in the 1939 register and I can confirm the following:

National Registration No         QFND 347/1
Name                  Frederick SMITH   
DOB                  08/06/1886
Address               7 Halls Close, Warwick
Marital Status            Married
Occupation   Unemployed, no specific trade, Disabled soldier, Incapacitated

National Registration No         QFND 347/2
Name                  Alice SMITH
DOB                  30/04/1887
Address               7 Halls Close, Warwick
Marital Status            Married
Occupation               Office Cleaner, Factory

National Registration No         QFND 347/3
Name                  Alice M SMITH
DOB                  12/01/1920
Address               7 Halls Close, Warwick
Marital Status            Single
Occupation               Driller of Cylinders, Factory

National Registration No         QFND 347/4
Name                  Derrick G SMITH
DOB                  04/01/1925
Address               7 Halls Close, Warwick
Marital Status            Single
Occupation               Chemists Porter


The 1939 National Registration is a record of the civilian population as at 29 September 1939. The books are arranged in National Registration Number order and based on the actual whereabouts of individuals on the night concerned. Thus, if an individual was not at his/her usual place of residence, e.g., in hospital or at a hotel, he/she will not appear at that address in the books.

The information held by the NHS IC is the original information as recorded in 1939 which is now over 70 years old. As such a number of entries within the Register are incomplete or illegible due to natural deterioration and disrepair.

The NHS IC will do it's utmost to provide the requested information when appropriate but there may be occasions when this is not possible. Therefore, there may be instances where the information provided is the most accurate interpretation of what is recorded.

As the 1939 Register only includes individuals who were recorded at an address on the 29 September 1939, members of the Armed Forces were not normally listed as they had already been called up for military service.
   
The information provided by each household was accepted at face value, therefore there may be instances of inaccurate information being recorded.

I hope that this response meets your request for information. However, if you are not satisfied, you may request a review from a suitably qualified member of staff not involved in the initial query, via the enquiries@ic.nhs.uk e mail address or by post at the above postal address.

I will assume that your request to the organisation is now closed.


Yours sincerely,

Kathryn Anderson
Higher Information Governance Officer

The re-use of this information for any purpose is subject to the Re-use of Public Sector Information Regulations 2005. Should you wish to re-use this information in any way you must ask us for specific permission relating to that you wish to use. If we agree to such re-use it may be subject to licensing and may involve a fee. Applications for re-use should be submitted to enquiries@ic.nhs.uk. No re-use should take place until you have formally asked for permission and we have informed you of our decision.

Christine