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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: marciemanning on Monday 05 August 13 15:21 BST (UK)
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My 6x great-grandfather(from ancient family bible) was John Peden 1704-1782 who married Helen Caldwell (1693-1774) in Cairncastle.
I am looking for documentation on John's father who might have been a James Peden b. 1654 Antrim.
In turn, I'm looking for James's father who I think might have been Hugh Peden (brother of Alexander 'the Prophet' Peden).
The above James Peden would have been the uncle of John Peden who married Peggy McGill and immigrated to America. I tend to think that 'my' Peden line remained in Ireland. I do know that some of the younger generations did eventually immigrate to America.
Are there any Pedens in Antrim who could help me? Thanks.
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Re Hugh Peden.
I am researching the Peden's from Maghera Co. Derry. The Earliest I can get to is James Peady br abt 1798 in Maghera. I have the descendants from James to my grandson Cameron Carson Moffett br 2010. My Mother was Peden Br 1917. Due to the loss of records in 1922 it is virtually impossible to go back any further. All my Peden's originated from the Maghera/Magherafelt Co. Derry area.
I have discovered Peden families in the Ballymoney Co.Antrim areas but have failed to make a connection to my line.
I would assume you are aware of Peden's visits to Co. Antrim middle 1600's. The cottage he stayed in is still there though has been updated down the years. There is a memorial erected to Old Sandy on the site.
Dr William Roulston an authority on the covenanter's recently organised a bus tour of the sights where Sandy preached. Unfortunately due to a family bereavement I was unable to be with them.
I'm sorry I can't be of any assistance to you in tracing the descendants of Sandy's. But was good to see I'm not the only one stuck on this line. Hopefully one of us may get a break through.
I will however be having a look at Peden Cairncastle
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Patterson
Thank you so much for your reply. As you say, it's good to know one is not alone!
I don't know if this will help you at all, but in my searches I found a reference to Pedens in Derry:
In 1796, Rev James Brown did a Church visit in the Colerain/Derry area. There were two Peden families in the same parish:
James and wife Agnus plus 6 daughters- Ellinor, Martha,Jennet,Elizabeth, Margaret and Isabella.
John and wife Jean plus 2 daughters - Agnus and Jennet.
One could assume that James and John were brothers. Of course, for their line to have carried on they would have had to have a son or two later!
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Just to clarify the above post- Rev. Brown was minister of First Garvagh Presbyterian Church and the records are of his visitations amongst his congregation. There were actually quite a few Pedens in the area.
The Pedens of Mayoughill are long established in the Garvagh area (well before 1800) and there's probably no way now to prove if John and James were or wer not brothers, let alone try to connect them with another family near Ballycastle.
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Thank you for the clarification. Hopefully it might help Patterson.
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I am aware there are Peden/Peady's and other variations in Co.Derry and and Antrim, I have never been able to make a connection to my line. Like my Moffett's in co. Tyrone. Some young generations don't seem to be interested.
Thanks for the response'
Ronnie
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I'm sure that my Pedens were established in the Ballymena/Larne/Cairncastle area. They were connected by marriage to the Caldwells, Simpsons and Hunters. One site said that Hugh Peden, b.1628 and brother of Rev.Alexander b.1626, settled in the Dunminning area of Ballymena.
Living as I do, thousands of miles from Antrim, I had to try and find it on a map! No luck.
My 4xgreat-grandfather was Dr William Simpson b.1809 Larne(not he of anaesthetic fame). His mother was Elizabeth Peden b. 1777 daughter of Dan Peden b. 1741.
Hopefully there are descendants of Dan Peden who still reside in the Larne area and who could assist me with any information re this family. :)
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... settled in the Dunminning area of Ballymena.
Living as I do, thousands of miles from Antrim, I had to try and find it on a map! No luck.
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Dunminning is easily found- go to Google and type in 'dunminning, ballymena.' Ignore the listings for properties (there is now a Dunminning Rd. in that area) and click on the map- which will show you Dunminning (between Glarryford and Cullybackey).
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Thank you. :) I found Dunminning Rd. I believe there is a very old graveyard there. While I was at it, I looked up Glenwhirry, a place name that was mentioned as offering shelter to the Rev. Alex.
I know that one should not assume, but it is possible that this is where Hugh and his brother James settled in the mid 1600's.
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Can you confirm what site linked Hugh and Alexander? I've been searching for a link for sometime. Any material I've read mentions a brother but not by name.On the present sites available there do not appear to be Peden's in Larne Cairncastle area, I will have to search for present day church records. A visit to PRONI may turn something up.
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I found it at padenfamily.org/descendtext.php The heading was: The Descendancyfor James Pethein.
This is actually a Scottish site so doesn't go beyond BMD in Scotland. Hope it helps.
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Picked this up might be of interest for you
c. 1710 Alexander Morton born in Co. Antrim. His wife, Margarite was born c. 1714. Margarite bore five children. Two - Jane and Thomas are buried in South Carolina at St Paul's Graveyard, Chester.
22 Sept 1725 John Morton married Mary Peden in Ayrshire
c.1830 James Morton born at Booughshane
c. 1850 James Morton married Jane Peden.
Jame and Jane later emigrated to Fairview, Greenville, South Carolina with their children http://www.wham.org/TomWhamHistory.htm
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Thanks again. I'll have a good look at Tom Wham. It would seem that most Pedens emigrated to America! However, some must have remained in N. Ireland. In the 1851 census of Larne, there are still some Pedens noted----they are my forbears.
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Check out the Rev William Martin Migration He took five ships from Ireland in 1700's. There are some Peden's there.
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Thanks, Ronnie, will do so.
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Re the link between Alexander (Sandy) Peden and Hugh Peden.
I have just finished reading "Prophet Of The Covenant" by Robert Watson M.A., B.D. who taught Classics and History in the Glasgow area. Near the end of the book, Sandy visits his brother, Hugh and his wife Marion. No definite proof other than that the author had a post as Historical Researcher on Old Glasgow, which gave him valuable experience of detailed investigation to research the Covenanting story of 17th century Scotland.
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This is the most wonderful news! Thank you so much. :D I will follow it up as best I can. The mere fact that it is confirmation of a brother named Hugh is almost enough for me!
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I'm sure that my Pedens were established in the Ballymena/Larne/Cairncastle area. They were connected by marriage to the Caldwells, Simpsons and Hunters. One site said that Hugh Peden, b.1628 and brother of Rev.Alexander b.1626, settled in the Dunminning area of Ballymena.
Living as I do, thousands of miles from Antrim, I had to try and find it on a map! No luck.
My 4xgreat-grandfather was Dr William Simpson b.1809 Larne(not he of anaesthetic fame). His mother was Elizabeth Peden b. 1777 daughter of Dan Peden b. 1741.
Hopefully there are descendants of Dan Peden who still reside in the Larne area and who could assist me with any information re this family. :)
William, Daniel, Elizabeth and James were cousins to Hans Stevenson of Ballypalady making their parents William Simpson and Elizabeth Peden his Aunt and Uncle.
Trying to find this link please.
Steve
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http://www.genealogy.com/forum/regional/countries/topics/ireland/74855/
Re Elizabeth Peden
1831 Mary GIBSON (Peden) Templepatrick Templepatrick Antrim View more detials View Household Members Add to mybookmarks 1831 Margaret MCMEEHIN (Peden) Ballymartin Ballymartin Antrim View more detials View Household Members Add to mybookmarks 1857 Andrew PEDEN Rickamore Templepatrick Antrim View more detials View Household Members Add to mybookmarks 1857 Margret PEDEN (Brown) Rickamore Templepatrick Antrim View more detials View Household Members Add to mybookmarks 1857 Margret PEDEN Rickamore Templepatrick Antrim View more detials View Household Members Add to mybookmarks 1857 Alexander PEDEN Rickamore Templepatrick Antrim. Don't know if this will be helpful, my friend in Ballymena Family History Society turned it up for me Maggie Little. Maggie manages our society site on the net. Have a look for North of Ireland Family History Society. You can Join it. Our problem is the loss of most census and church records prior to 1922..
Regards for now
Ronnie Moffett Mom was a Peden.
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Thank you so much, please thank Maggie Little too for me, as it takes time and effort to look information out.
I was hoping that this ancient bible might have some clues to who married whom pre 1800 that marciemanning had......
regards Steve
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I'm not sure if this helps in any way, but I'll pass it along just in case:
My 2x Great Grandfather: William Peden (b. 1842 -d. 1868) Newtonards, Down, Ireland
Father: James Peden (b. 1809) of Newtonards, Down.
I don't yet have any information on James' wife.
William married my 2x Great Grandmother Sarah Jane Dunlop (in Newtonards) and they had three children: Hugh (abt. 1865), Margaret Jane (abt. 1866) and Mary (abt. 1869). Sarah Jane remarried and moved to Glasgow after William's death and eldest son Hugh stayed with the family for a number of years. I don't yet have any information on the daughters - I'm still working on the Peden family branch of my tree. I can, however, provide more details on William's wife Sarah Jane if needed.
Good luck in your research.
Jim
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William Peden born 1865 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5PY-QM7
Margaret Jane Peden born 1866 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FR4Q-Z8D
Mary Peden born 1869 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FPY7-YBZ
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marciemanning
I have just picked up on one of your earlier posts about the Rev.Alexander Peden. You might be interested to note that in Laurence Kirkpatrick's book "Presbyterians in Ireland - an Illustrated History" - "Glenwherry Church was built in 1825, though Presbyterians in this area had before been attached to Ballyclare". "The famous Covenanter fugitive Alexander Peden was sheltered in this region in 1682".
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An old thread I know, but has anyone come across Peden’s in Newry Co Armagh or Down?? I have a marriage there in the 1850’s.
Bitzar.
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[Also aware that this is an old thread.]
Marciemanning, I was wondering if you could post some more details of the family bible. Where is it / what does it say about John Peden and Helen Caldwell and their descendants?
Steve, did you ever get to the bottom of the Simpson/Peden connection to the Stevensons of Ballypallady?
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[Think I am an old thread some days ;D ]
I can find no evidence that Daniel Peden's family in Carncastle are from the same branch that went to America, or related to Rev Alexander.
Unless this bible could shed some light.
The Stevenson link is still ongoing, Han's mother was a Sherriff but one of Dan's daughters married a Sherriff.
I can find no link to Pedens in any other areas BUT......Templepatrick family might be linked to them.
So onwards
Steve
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Lol :)
So that would mean the wife of James Stevenson (c1756-1828) was Ann Sherriff (d. 1796)? Where did you find that nugget of information?
Do you think maybe Thomas Sheriff and Helena Peden could be the grandparents of Hans Stevenson?
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No to both Gilby .
Thought with a Sherriff in both sides might be a link ....
Ann is still a mystery.
There is an earlier Sherriff /Peden marriage in Carncastle not sure if the same family but the bible may hold the key.
Interestingly a bible is mentioned in a early will, so following who is left what,it could still be in Ireland in 1900's or should be.
so onwards
Steve
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Steve,
Why do you not think James Stevenson’s wife Ann could have been the daughter of Thomas Sheriff and Helena Peden – would that not explain the cousin relationship?
Whose will mentions the bible?
I’ll be going to PRONI tomorrow and later this Christmas so any pointers would be welcome!
Thanks,
Gilby
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Came across this deed today...
1773 - Drains, Blair to John Caldwell - Book 298 / Page 426 / Number 197938
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-C95Y-6?i=232&cat=185720
Memorial of lease dated 5th Aug 1773 between William Henry Blair of Carncastle, gent, and John Caldwell of same. For £35, Blair granted Caldwell a lease of a farm then in the possession of William Norrill containing 36a IPM, in Drains, Cairncastle. To hold for the lives of William Henry Blair, son of lessor, John Peden aged about 9, Robert Peden aged about 7, sons of Dan Peden of the parish of Larne. Witnessed by James Crawford and Dan Peden. Memorial witnessed by said Dan Peden, and John Wier notary public. 2nd Sep 1773.
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Following on from the previous post...
Book 296 / Page 513 / Number 197939
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-M3TM-4?i=279&cat=185720
Memorial of a lease dated 5th Aug 1773 between William Henry Blair of Carncastle, gent, and Dan Peden. For £30, Blair granted Peden a lease of 36a IPM in Drains, now in his possession. To hold for the lives of William Henry Blair, son of lessor, John Peden aged about 9, Robert Peden aged about 7, sons of Dan Peden of the lessee. Witnessed by James Crawford and John Caldwell. Memorial witnessed by said John Caldwell, and John Wier notary public. 2nd Sep 1773.
I like these ones where the farmers witnessed each other's deeds. I can imagine them all gathered in a room together each getting their new leases at the same time.
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The first of these mentions that the lands had been held in trust by Archibald Tweed. I think that, and the way they are divided into parts, suggests he was holding them as executor to someone's will or possible as trustee to a marriage settlement.
Book 538 / Page 412 / Number 358587
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-Y9WT-4?i=541&cat=185720
Memorial of a release dated 13th Jan 1797 between Archibald Tweed of Drumane [Dromain], farmer, and Jas [?] Callwell [Caldwell] of Tobergell [Tobergill]. In pursuance of the trust therein mentioned, Archibald Tweed granted to Callwell one 13th part, and one 26th part of the townland of Knocknoun otherwise Drains, containing by estimation 219a, and the quarterland of Drumane containing 120a, and the moiety of Loughduff and the turf bog thereunto belonging. For two royal lives, and the life of Samuel Allen the younger. Witnessed by John Callwell of Droagh, farmer, and William Marsh [Walsh?] of Glenarm, gent. Memorial witnessed by said John Callwell and by Robert Hantonville. 9th Feb 1802. William Walsh knows the deponent.
Book 546 / Page 32 / Number 358588
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ4-79WD-N?i=344&cat=185720
Memorial of a release dated ?0th Mar 1797 between Archibald Tweed of Drumain, farmer, and John Caldwell of Droagh, farmer. Tweed granted to Caldwell four 13th parts of the townland of Knocknoone otherwise Drains, containing 219a, one moiety of the quarterland of Drumane containing 120a, one moiety of the lands of Loughduff and the turf thereunto belonging. For two royal lives, and Samuel Allen the younger. Deed and memorial witnessed by Archibald Tweed the younger, and Robert Hantinville of Glenarm. 9th Feb 1802. William Walsh knows the deponent.
Book 538 / Page 413 / Number 358589
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-Y9WT-4?i=541&cat=185720
Memorial of a release dated 10th Jan 1797 between Archibald Tweed of Drumain, farmer, and Daniel Peden of Ballycraigy, farmer. Tweed granted Peden one 13th part, and one 26th part of the moiety of the townland of Knocknoane otherwise Drains containing 219a, and one moiety of the quarterland of Drumane containing 120a, and one moiety of the lands of Loughduff and the turf thereto belonging, barony of Glenarm. For two royal lives, and Samuel Allen the younger. Witnessed by John Callwell [Caldwell] of Drough [Droagh], and William Walsh of Glenarm, gent. Memorial witnessed by said John Callwell [and Robert] Hantenville of Glenarm, gent. 9th Feb 1802. William Walsh knows the deponent.
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I have an ancestor called Agnes Peden who married John Snoddy probably sometime prior to 1830. A number of their children were baptised in Templepatrick Presbyterian church during the 1830s. Their daughter Jane Snoddy married William McMurray in 1855 at Templepatrick. The witness at the wedding was Margaret McMeekin (quite possibly the same person mentioned earlier in this thread).
Also in relation to one of the posters with links to Moffett in Tyrone. My grandmother was a Moffett born in Belfast, as was her father and grandfather. I have no confirmed dna matches with any Moffetts on the 3 sites on which I have my data. However I do have 6 possible dna matches with 2 Moffett families from County Tyrone.
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Hi Jason
My 3rd Gt Aunt Frances Lynn b 1816 Templepatrick married Matthew Snoddy in 1836 at Templepatrick, I have not looked at his family except that his parents were William Snoddy and Agnes Barron. Agnes almost certainly belonged to one of the two Templepatrick Barron families who re connected to my family by marriage. Gilby is also descended from one of the two Barron families.
I have come across the Peden families in the same area but surprisingly I have not found any marriages in my Templepatrick families.
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I think there is a strong possibility the father and mother of Matthew Snoddy are wrong. Matthew's death in Scotland was registered by his daughter Agnes, who would only have been a year or two old when the family left Ireland for Scotland. There were already 2 previous examples of a family member using the wrong details when registering the deaths of 2 Snoddy children. Frances and Joseph Snoddy were born in Scotland. Their births were registered by the father, Matthew Snoddy. Matthew used the correct maiden name for his wife when registering the births - Lynn. In contrast, the deaths of both Frances and Joseph were registered by James Snoddy, son of Matthew and Francis. James registered his mother's maiden name as Wylie.
I strongly suspect Matthew Snoddy is the son of Thomas Snoddy and Jane Agnew who appear in the Templepatrick Presbyterian church census in 1831 living at Cottonmount in the townland of Craigarogan. According to the census in the Snoddy household there are a number of children - Matthew, John, James, William, Peter, Jane and Thomas. My assumption is John is the John Snoddy who married Jane/Agnes Peden. This matches with John Snoddy who appears in Griffiths valuation resident at Cottonmount and a grave in Mallusk with a metal surround stating John Snoddy Cottonmount 1866. Of the others - William married in 1846 at Templepatrick to Anne Jane Thompson - his residence is stated as Craigarogan, father Thomas Snoddy with occupation for both father and son stated as Bleecher. I have found no further trace of William following his marriage. James Snoddy appears to have emigrated to the USA, my cousins and myself have multiple dna matches with his descendents in the States. James appears to have emigrated with a Hugh Snoddy. Hugh's age was given as 16 at emigration which would match the birth of Hugh Wiley Snoddy in 1837 at Templepatrick, first child of Matthew Snoddy and Frances Lynn. It would explain why there is no futher trace of Hugh Wylie Snoddy in either Ireland or in the Scottish census records for the Snoddy family. James Snoddy who emigrated to the USA named one of his children Hugh W Snoddy. So it appears he may well have been emigrating with his cousin. The second child of Matthew Snoddy and Frances Lynn was named Thomas and the first female child Jane - matching with Thomas Snoddy and Jane Agnew. Some of those who had previously looked at the line of Matthew and Frances appear to have made the assumption that as James Snoddy when registering the death of his siblings used the name Wylie for his mother's maiden name that it must have come down his mother's side of the family. However the Wylie name may actually have come from the Agnew line. There is a concentration of Agnew's in the parish of Ballymartin and there is also a Hugh Wylie resident in Ballymartin in the Tithes. There is an Ezekiel Wylie married to a Jane Baron resident at Ballycushin in the Templepatrick church census. Finally Matthew Snoddy like Thomas, William and John Snoddy was a linen lapper according to the Scottish census. It will be interesting to see if there is a townland or place name noted for any of the baptisms in the Templepatrick church registers for the children of Matthew Snoddy and Frances Lynn, it would take a visit to PRONI to check.
After the death of Matthew Snoddy in Scotland in 1879, the family disappears. I have found no futher trace of the family or his wife in either Ireland or Scotland.
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Hi jason
I don't believe I am overly attached to the parents I named for of Matthew Snoddy. And it would take me some time to figure out the source. Gilby might know
You are pushing a few of our buttons with those names. Starting with the Hugh Wiley of Ballymartin and Ballycushan who was my 4th gt grandfather and Gilby's 5th gt. Ezekiel Wiley who married Jane Barron (of Roughfort/Craigarogan) was Gilby's 4th gt grandfather.J
Mary Wiley daughter of Hugh, married James Graham of Ballycushan and they were my 3xt gt grandparetns. My 2x gt grandparents were John Graham and Jane Lynn daughter of William Lynn c1815
Cheers
Linda
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The source for the parents of Matthew Snoddy is the Scottish death registration. Agnes Snoddy named her father's parents as Agnes Barron and William Snoddy.
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Jason, as Linda says, your post pushes several buttons and lights up some bulbs (if only flickering). I’d love to figure out what the Barron/Wylie connection is to this Snoddy family.
Do you know much about Thomas Snoddy and Jane Agnew? Where do you get her maiden name from?
Do we have a marriage record for Matthew Snoddy to Frances Lynn? Are there not quite a few sources which list her as Frances Wylie, which would suggest the Wylie name came down her site of the family?
Hmmm, I keep forgetting about the Templepatrick NSP census of 1831. I think it is only available on microfilm at PRONI, and I’ve never looked it up. I have looked at the 1854 census…
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Hi Gilby,
Two of the children, Matthew Snoddy and Frances Lynn (Hugh Wiley Snoddy) and james are in the Irish Births/baptisms (at Templepatcick) and the youngest child, Joseph Snoddy b 1 Jun 1856 is in Scotland select births bapts. All showing Matthew as father and Fanny/Fracnes Linn/Lynn as mother.
The family are in the 1871 scottish census.
marriage of Matthew Snoddy and Fanny Lynn at Templepatrick on 29 Oct 1836.Not sure of source.(Oh I was looking at Gails tree. Mine has Irish select marriages as source.)
I am not sure now why I decided to adopt Fanny into my Templepatrick Lynn family. I think it was because Gail Tiessen has her as a sister of my William. Actually I think Gail has several more siblings to William than I have. I only have one DNA match that I remember to siblings and that is from Joseph Lynn.
Cheers
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All of the Snoddy children baptisms are in the Templepatrick Presbyterian church registers with the exception of the two children born in Scotland. All of the baptisms give the mothers name as Fanny/Francis Lynn, with the exception of one baptism which lists the mother as Fanny Scott rather than Lynn. I am aware of a Frances Scott Wylie in some trees on Ancestry which would suggest Fanny Lynn is indeed from the Wylie line. I have taken the information regarding the baptisms from the Family Search website where you can now view scans of what I think are McKinney's transcriptions of the birth and marriage registers for Templepatrick Presbyterian. To find the images search under Catalog on the website, then under Templepatrick as a location and it will bring up the links to the images. They can be found in two separate documents - duplicates of each other. The same scans also include Donegore and Carnmoney records. The marriage of Matthew Snoddy and Frances Lynn is also to be found in the same registers and again has been transcribed by McKinney and the images can be viewed online. Your Barron's and Lynn's also appear in the registers online.
I got the Templepatrick Presbyterian census from the Emerald Ancestors website. It lists Jane Agnew as the husband of Thomas Snoddy. I hope to view the microfilm of the census at some point in the future.
Wylie was used as Fanny Lynn's maiden name by her son James when registering the deaths of his two siblings in Scotland. My take is James simply used the wrong maiden name for his mother when registering the deaths. From my own research into McMurray's who moved to Scotland I know just how badly inaccurate the death registration and even sometimes the marriage registration information can be. One of my McMurray's stated her mother's name was Jane Peden at her marriage registration rather than Jane Snoddy.
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I have photographs of most of McKinney’s transcripts at PRONI, but I didn’t realise they were online too. Some of those scans are probably more readable than my photos.
So, Matthew Snoddy’s wife is variously described as Fanny Lynn, Fanny Wylie, and Fanny Scott. Is it possible she was “Fanny Scott Wylie” who married someone called Lynn, before she married Matthew Snoddy?
Hugh Wylie of Ballycushan (common ancestor of me and Linda) had a daughter called “Fanny Scott Wylie” born in 1808, died in 1811. [Linda, if we found a newspaper notice for her death, I have lost it – do you have it?]
In his will, dated 31st January 1828, Hugh Wiley mentions his daughters Ellen, Isabella, and Mary, and also Fanny Scott. It isn’t clear if Fanny was another daughter – if she was, then she must have been born after 1811.
The 1831 census record (apparently I did look his up back in 2015) has this family in Ballycushan: Ezekiel D. Wiley and his wife Jane Barron. Children Elizabeth and Joseph Barron. It also notes Ezekiel’s mother Mary and someone called Fanny, with Scott written slightly above. If I had to guess what it says is “Fanny Scott sisters daughter” but it is really unclear.
Jason, do you know how Emerald Ancestors have interpreted the above record?
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Ezekiel D Wiley - Head of household, Jane Wiley (Baron) - wife, Elizabeth Wiley - daughter, Joseph Baron Wiley - son, Mary Wiley - mother (no maiden name stated) and William Rea - servant. All resident in Ballycushin. No ages stated for anyone in the household and no mention of Fanny Scott.
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Hi Gilby
No I do not have a death notice for Fanny Scott Wiley. I have just used 1811 for the date of death but a couple of other trees have used your best guess dates that you got from reading Hugh Wiley's tombstone. (or rather the script overlay on your photo of the tombstone).
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"Also their daughter Fanny who departed this Life on the 21 of January 1811, Aged ? 3 Years".
So yes we were bemused by future references to Fanny Scott Wiley. In the 1831 census and the transcript of Hugh Wiley's Will.
I am fairly sure baptism records have the mother's maiden name not her previous married name. Though that may appear on her marriage record.
I cannot see Snoddy or Lynn in the photos you took of the MiKinney Notebooks though.
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Ah, we must have used Fanny Scott Wiley’s baptism (Templepatrick Presbyterian – MIC1B/11/1) to deduce what it says on the headstone (where her age of death looks most like a 3 or a 5, but could feasibly be a 6).
On my tree I have her born 6th Jan 1808, so she’d have been 3 on the 21st Jan 1811 (which fits with the headstone) or 6 on 21st Jan 1814 (which probably doesn’t fit).
However, when I went to check my notes from the microfilm, I have recorded she was baptised on the 6th Jun 1808, so she would have been 2 on the 21st Jan 1811 (which doesn’t fit the headstone), or 5 on the 21st Jun 1814 (which does fit).
Bah, this is why I like to have photographs of things so I can check them >:(
Either way, I’m convinced Fanny Lynn was connected to the Wileys. DNA anyone? My Dad’s results have just been posted on Ancestry (already on FTDNA and GEDmatch).
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I have a handwritten list of records from the Templepatrick Presbyterian Church, which looks to be in the handwriting of one of my father's 2nd cousins, which says that my 3x gt grandparents William Lynn and Jemima Courtney married at Templepatrick on 10th December 1835.
Address Clachanduff.
William's parents listed as William and Sarah Lynn.
I have checked the certificates issued to me by the Templepatrick Presbyterian Church in 1984 and that one does not seem to be included though I do have the baptism of their daughter Jane in 1839.
But if the marriage of Frances Lynn and Matthew Snoddy has been scanned somewhere then her parents should be shown.
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Sorry forgot to say, the only other trace of Thomas Snoddy and Jane Agnew I have uncovered so far is the baptism of their son Thomas on 4th April 1824 in Carnmoney Church of Ireland.
Another point of interest, images of transcriptions of the Ballylinny Presbyterian registers are also available on the family search website. Images of transcriptions for Carnmoney Church of Ireland registers for births/marriages are also available, although I am unsure who made the Carnmoney transcriptions. There are a number of Lynn marriages and baptisms in the Carnmoney COI records.
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I have found my way to the LDS film that includes the registers and as you say they do not appear to be the originals but a transcription.
I can see the 1835 marriage of William Lynn and Jemima Courtney and it does not include the parents noted by my cousin who I am sure looked at the original registers. (Possibly still at the Templepatrick Pres Church). And yes the Snoddy/Lynn marriage is on the same page in the film (page 535 of film 7811668).
I also found the 1833 baptism for my 2x gt grandfather John Graham which has always puzzled me as the certificate I got from the Templepatrick church in 1984 was for 1831, which is consistent for him appearing in the 1831 census. I am sure if John had also been baptised in 1833 on the exact same day and month, I would have been informed.
By the way McKinney also took entries from Carnmoney Church so these could be his transcriptions.
Cheers
Linda
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Okay so managed to track down the details of the family of Matthew Snoddy and Frances Lynn in Scotland. The family didn't disappear after the death of Matthew, they used the surname Sneddon rather than Snoddy.
Their son James used the surname Sneddon when he married Jane Witherspoon in 1870 at Old Monkland. On his marriage record his father is stated as Matthew Sneddon, a linen lapper and his mother as Frances Wylie.
William Snoddy used the surname Snedden when he married Helen McAlister in 1873 at Partick. On his marriage record his father is stated as William Snedden a cloth lapper and his mother as Frances Wylie.
In the 1881 Scottish census Frances Sneddon 60 and Agnes Sneddon 25 are resident in the household of William Sneddon 37 and Helen Sneddon 31 at Govan. There are no children in the household.
Death of Frances Sneddon on 23/07/1900 at the Poorhouse in Paisley. Age stated as 80, widow of Matthew Sneddon, a linen lapper. Father stated as James Wylie, deceased and Frances Wylie maiden name Lynn, also deceased.
And a little bit more from the USA. James Snoddy son of Thomas Snoddy and Jane Agnew used the surname Snedden at his marriage in Philadelphia. His witness was Hugh Wiley. At Hugh Wiley's wedding in the same church in Philadelphia his witness was James Snedden. Hugh Wiley's first child was named Frances Wiley, the second child Agnes. At a guess Hugh Wiley is Hugh Wiley Snoddy but for some reason dropped his Snoddy surname.
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Hi jason
Thank you for the additional information. I have removed Fanny as sister of my 3x gt grandfather William Lynn. (Whose Kilgreel farm was on the Lowtown Rd on the corner of which the "new" Templeptatrick Church was built in 1831).
But it is looking like it is possible that Fanny Lynn who married Matthew Snoddy, was in fact Fanny Scott Wiley, daughter of James.
Hugh Wiley's daughter Fanny Scott Wiley born 1808 and died 1811. So a second Fanny Scott Wiley daughter of James could mean that James was a brother of Hugh Wiley.
I am wondering if the 2nd Fanny Scott Wiley was living with the Wiley family @ Ballycushon Templepatrick in 1831.Maybe this bit was not transcribed by Emerald Isles as it was too hard to read?
And maybe Fanny is the Fanny Scott noted in Hughes Will of 1828/9. Fanny Scott was listed after Hugh's daughters Nancy, Ellen, Isabella and Mary (my 3x gt grandmother). (All daughters but Nancy were married before 1828. Nancy married in 1829)
There was an Elizabeth Wiley listed with Mary in the header row of the Will transcription. I would need to check with Gilby to see what he knows about Elizabeth. If Elizabeth was widow of James Wiley, and Fanny Scott Wiley was her daughter then that would be one explanation.
Again an actual viewing of the Templepatrick Parish marriage records rather than a McKinney transcript, should confirm Fanny's maiden name and the name of her father. Also her address. Not to mention witnesses.
I am a little far away to arrange that for myself but am very interested to find out, should either you or Gilby get to PRONI sometime. Either way, Fanny remains a person of interest.
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I suspect your original tree was correct. Remember there were 9 baptisms in Templepatrick - 8 gave the mothers maiden name as Lynn. When her husband registered the children's births in Scotland he used Lynn as her maiden name. It is only when the children come to register births/deaths/marriages that Wylie starts to appear as the maiden name. I would also be skeptical about the details on the death registration. It was completed by the clerk in the poor house most likely from details provided by one of the children. I can only reiterate in my experience the information contained on the Scottish death registrations for those born in Ireland is often wrong.
Is it not more likely Frances Lynn is the granddaughter of Hugh Wylie? Is it possible William Lynn's wife was a Wylie?
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Hi Jason
I think we have Hugh Wiley's children all accounted for unless there was another Frances Scott Wiley born after 1811. All the daughters we know about were named in his Will plus Frances Scott. The oldest daughter was probably Agnes/Nancy named after Hugh's mother and probably born in the late 1790s (no baptism in Templepatrick). My 3x gt grandmother Mary Wiley is presumably the Mary baptised 1799, then Eleanor bap 1801, Isabella bapt 1803, Ezekiel 1805, and Fanny Scott 1808.
We do not know the maiden name of their mother Mary who died in her 84th yr on 24 Nov 1848. So Mary was born c1765 and could possibly have had another child after 1811. So a second Fanny Scott in this family is not impossible, but I would expect to have seen another baptism.
William Lynn born c1815 married Jemima Courtney in 1835. His father William was married to a Sarah but I do not know her maiden name. Sarah could have been a Wiley though there is nothing to suggest this.
I am more comfortable leaving Fanny in a different family from William Lynn for now but will reinstated her maiden name to Lynn.
Cheers
Linda
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While updating Frances again, I also updated Matthew's parents to Thomas Snoddy and Jane Agnew.
Yes there are a few Agnews around. My 2x gt Aunt Jane Wiley Graham b 1837 married a James Agnew b c 1828, carpenter of Templepatrick, son of John Agnew, another carpenter. I suspect the Margaret Barron who was a witness was Jane's cousin, daughter of Eleanor Wiley and John Barron.
James sister Mary Agnew, married Arthur Skelton Courtney of my Templepatrick Courtney family.
I haven't looked further back in this Agnew family but James and his family were buried at Donegore which suggests there might be an earlier family connection in that parish as by that time the family were living in Belfast.
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Good finds again Jason Mac. I think I need to write out chronological list of all references to Fanny’s name to decide what I think.
In the meantime, I just have time to say the “Elizabeth Wiley” listed as an executor for Hugh Wiley in 1832 is a clerical error for “Ezekiel Wiley”. This is shown by this will book which names the executors “Mary & Ezekiel Wiley”, so his widow and son:
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=IRE%2FDIOC%2F007246596%2F00870&parentid=IRE%2FDIOC%2FWILL%2F00383389
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Okay, a wee update. Managed to get to PRONI to check out Templepatrick census and baptismal/marriage registers.
Marriage register confirms the parents of Matthew Snoddy were Thomas Snoddy and Jane Agnew. His residence was Cottonmount. For Fanny Lynn, only the father's name is stated - John Agnew. Her residence is stated as Ballycushin. The witnesses at the marriage were E.D. Wiley and possibly Nathaniel William Campbell. Residence for Snoddy/Lynn family at various baptisms varies between Cottonmount/Craigarogan/Mallusk.
There are no further details in the Templepatrick census of 1831 regarding the family of Ezekiel Wiley that differ from what was previously mentioned on this thread. However I did find yet another Fanny Lynn. The 1857 Templepatrick census has a John Lemon living at Cottonmount, wife Fanny Lynn and the following children - Elizabeth, William, Agnes, Maragaret, John and James.
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Hi Jason Mac
Thank you for the marriage details for Matthew Snoddy and Fanny Lynn. So it looks like Fanny was a widow of a Lynn and the daughter of a John Agnew.
Possibly related to her mother in law to be, Jane Agnew. But too many Agnews.
The witness, Ezekiel D Wiley would also have been living in Ballycushion. Again a possibility is that Fanny was living with the Wileys but was not a daughter of Hugh Wiley, or a sister of Ezekiel.
I don't know Nathaniel William Campbell but I think one of the Presbyterian ministers in the area was a Campbell. Gilby will know.
I do have a group of siblings for my William Lynn of Kilgreel though only have confidence in one, Joseph Lynn b c1814 who died 1894. (I have a DNA match). So Jospeh was not the deceased husband of Fanny. Though I do not know the name of Joseph's wife, his family were born up to the mid 1860s.
Interesting about that other Fanny Lynn. I do have a Lemon middle name in the son of one of my grandfather's Graham cousins but that was because the cousin's wife was the daughter of a William Lemon McKeown b c1853. It looks like his parents were James McKeown and Eliza Lemon of Belfast who married 1850.
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Hmm, intriguing! What was the exact date of the marriage of Matthew Snoddy to Fanny?
Do either of you know more about this John Lemon family?
I agree it seems Fanny was probably living in the Wiley household. It ties in with her appearance on the 1831 church census.
There was a John Agnew of Kilgreel who died in 1832. Executors were Joseph Barron (father-in-law of Ezekiel Wiley) and a John Campbell of Kilgreel:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNR-T946-J?i=103&cat=234657
Campbell connections. Ezekiel Wiley’s sister-in-law Jennie Barron was married to James McNeilly Campbell (1809-1886), son of the Rev. Robert Campbell (1771-1855) of Templepatrick (he was married to a McNeilly, but I have not yet identified her family).
Robert Campbell was minister of Templepatrick Presbyterian which split in 1830. He continued to lead the minority of the congregation (non-subscribing), holding on to the old church in the village. He was semi-retired from 1849 until his death.
In 1854, a Rev. Robert Campbell junior (1825-1894) took over. He was the son of a James Campbell, but I have not been able to establish whether he was related to Rev. Robert Campbell senior. In 1861 he married Elizabeth Simpson (c1840-1875), great granddaughter of Daniel Peden (c1740-c1821) of Ballycraigy – back to the Pedens!
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Marriage of Matthew Snoddy and Fanny Lynn was on 29th October 1836.
The recording of the marriage details in the register is somewhat unusual. All the other marriages have the parents names stated. For Fanny Lynn it has John Agnew but there is a letter or a symbol between John and Agnew. Also the name of the second witness is not clear, it looks like Nathaniel William but both names are abbreviated in the old style. I am not convinced that Fanny Lynn had been married before. She used the name Lynn on subsequent registrations in Templepatrick and in Scotland. Would a widow who may only have been married for a short time continue to use the surname of her deceased husband? Could it be she acutally is a Lynn? Perhaps her mother never married John Agnew. I have no further information regarding the Lemon family I will have to see if I can trace them.
You mentioned a Dan Peden. Do you have any information about him? I have been working on the Peden families around Parkgate/Templepatrick area. In the Templepatrick registers the Pedens are very strongly associated with Mallusk.
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Thanks for the date (it had probably been mentioned before but I forgot to put it in my tree). Who was the minister officiating at the marriage?
I finally got around to putting a sort of timeline together for Fanny. There are a few gaps because I don’t have all the Scottish records – let me know if you can fill any in!
Timeline:
1828 - Fanny Scott (will of Hugh Wiley)
1831 - Fanny Scott “sister’s daughter”?? (church census with Ezekiel Wiley household)
1836 - Fanny Lynn, daughter of John Agnew? (marriage)
1837 - Fanny Lynn (birth of son Hugh Wiley Snoddy in Ireland)
1840 - Fanny Lynn (birth of son Thomas Snoddy in Ireland)
1843 - Fanny Scott (birth of son William Snoddy in Ireland)
1846 - Fanny Lynn (birth of son James Snoddy in Ireland)
1848 - Fanny Lynn (birth of son Matthew Snoddy in Ireland)
1851 - Fanny Lynn (birth of daughter Jane Snoddy in Ireland)
1854 - Fanny Lynn (birth of daughter Agnes Snoddy in Ireland)
1856 - ____ Lynn (birth of son Joseph Snoddy in Scotland)
1857 - ____ Linn…? (death of son Joseph Snoddy in Scotland)
1858 - ____ Lynn (birth of daughter Frances Snoddy in Scotland)
1860 - ____ Wylie (death of daughter Frances Snoddy in Scotland)
1861 - Francis (Snoddy) (census – aged 42, Portugal Street, Glasgow Gorbals)
1864 - ____ Wylie …? (death of daughter Jane in Hutchesontown, Scotland)
1870 - Frances Wylie (marriage of son James at Old Monkland, Scotland)
1871 - Francis (Snoddy) (census – aged 50, Norfolk Street, Glasgow Gorbals)
1873 - Frances Wylie (marriage of son William at Partick, Scotland)
1879 - Frances Wylie (death of husband Matthew)
1900 - Frances Wylie, daughter of James Wylie and Frances Lynn (death aged 80 in Scotland)
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RE the Pedens, Steve commented on the possible links in post #25 of this thread. She knows more about the family than me. I just have them sketched out as follows:
Daniel PEDEN (c1740-1820) of Ballycraigy (Larne), m. Elizabeth BOYLE (possibly 2nd wife, and not mother to all the children)
- John PEDEN (b. c1764).
- Robert PEDEN (c1766-1838) of Knowhead, had a son Robert.
- Elizabeth PEDEN (b. c1777) m. William SIMPSON (see below).
- James PEDEN.
- Helena PEDEN m. Thomas SHERIFF.
- Margaret PEDEN m. Joseph HUNTER.
- William PEDEN.
See here for brief discussion of Simpson family:
http://www.genealogy.com/forum/regional/countries/topics/ireland/74855/
Two of the Simpson sons married daughters of Robert WILSON of Cogry, Ballyclare. One of those was Daniel Peden SIMPSON (c1807-1852) whose daughter Elizabeth SIMPSON (c1840-1875) married the Rev. Robert CAMPBELL (c1825-1894) of Templepatrick in 1861.
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Hi Jason Mac
Interestingly I have just come across a distant DNA match whose only ancestor located close to mine, is someone who has a James Peden as his 4th gt grandfather, born 1787 in Fairview South Carolina, son of a Samuel Peden b c1754 in Co Antrim and died Kemper County, Mississippi in 1835.
That does not mean I am related to Samuel Peden but he is the only one in my matches tree who was born in Ireland.
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Apologies I have been a bit snowed under with work recently so have not had a chance to respond to original query regarding Fanny Lynn. I will hunt out certificates and can email them to you if you want them.
As for Peden's, there are 7 of us on Ancestry who are descendents of the John Snoddy/Eliza Peden line. We all show a strong connection with a John Peden born 1709 in Broughshane who married a Margaret McDill and emigrated to South Carolina. We all share a group of dna matches in the 20-30cm range with the descendents of John Peden and Maraget McDill. We also appear to be linked with a family from Dromore, who ended up in East Belfast. A look at the occupation listed on the certificates for this family shows a common occupation with the Pedens from Templepatrick - shoemaker. My guess is the Peden in this line is one of the Templepatrick Pedens.