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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex => England => Essex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: STAN54 on Friday 02 August 13 23:59 BST (UK)
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I was listening to my local radio station this morning and heard a request from a Rob Lanting in the Netherlands trying to find out information on the above person.
In 1943 a Halifax bomber crashed near his town and two of the seven crew were killed. In September he is unveiling a memorial to the crew and has requested help in tracing relatives of Bertram Scudder.
All he knows is that the family came from Hadleigh in Essex and that his parents were Edith Maud and Bert Henry Scudder.
I've put a link to the radio programme below which will be available for a few days no doubt.
You need to go to 2 hours 33 minutes and 24 seconds to hear the article.
Rob Lantings e-mail address was given out on air as:
lantingrob@hotmail.com
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01cdh18
Having carried out research of a seven man crew myself and building a memorial I know just how hard this type of research is and one needs all the help they can get.
Regards to all.
Chris.
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I didn't see this here until this morning, but I've posted information on the WW2Talk thread
http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/48895-help-needed-to-trace-relatives-of-airman-killed-in-holland-1943-by-dutch-researcher/
to save people researching from scratch.
We now have addresses in Hadleigh, father appears to have run a drapery store in London Road Hadleigh in Kelleys 19129 Directory (presumably with Scudder in the name?) and home address 48, Meadow Road. His mother, Edith Maud (nee Pullen) died in the 1970's.....
He flew with a mixed crew including (unusually, I think) 2 Americans, one of whom was the pilot.
Halifax Mk V DK259. Code WL-L. Equipped with Gee. Target Bochum. Take off 18:30 from Tholthorpe.
SCUDDER, BERTRAM THOMAS HENRY. Rank: Sergeant. Trade: Flt. Engr. Service No: 1582262. Date of Death: 29/09/1943. Age: 18
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. 434 (R.C.A.F.) Sqdn
Grave Reference: Grave 206. Cemetery: ENSCHEDE EASTERN GENERAL CEMETERY
Additional Information: Son of Bert Henry and Edith Maud Scudder, of Hadleigh, Essex.
(Loss Card notes as 2nd operation)
BELLINGER, WILLIAM GEORGE. Rank: Flying Officer. Trade: Nav. Service No: J/13120. Date of Death: 29/09/1943. Age: 21.
Regiment/Service: Royal Canadian Air Force. 434 Sqdn.
Grave Reference: Grave 207. Cemetery: ENSCHEDE EASTERN GENERAL CEMETERY
Additional Information: Son of Harold D. and Elvera L. Bellinger, of Windsor, Ontario, Canada.
(Died in hospital of leg wounds) Loss Card shows him as bomb aimer, but crew member(s) say Navigator.
2nd Lt Jackson Temple Clary (pilot) USAAF Service Number O.885969; escaped; (18 operations)
Pilot Officer G V Hastings, Navigator, CAN/J17665; PoW;
Pilot Officer J A L Lockhart W/Op; CAN/J18450; PoW;
Technical Sergeant R W Stuart USAAF; 10601019; (mid upper) PoW;
Pilot Officer C V Hovey CAN/J17408 (rear) PoW.
Name: Bertram T H Scudder. Mother's Maiden Surname: Pullen. Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1925
Registration District: London City, Greater London. Volume: 1c. Page: 2
(This makes him one of the younger RAF casualties, at possibly less than 18 years and 3 months.)
Hopefully those of you with Southend connections can pick up the trail from the above, with a successful conclusion!
Only in June was I involved in something similar, for a crew member with and address in Hastings.
I contacted the Hastings RBL Branch and astonishingly spoke to a lady who was his cousin! Despite the short time, she was able (with the help of her family) to drive through the night to be there for the unveiling of the memorial, on the actual 70th anniversary of his death.
If it's meant to happen, it will happen, we just need to give Fate a helping hand!
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Hi, there is a tree on Anc. showing the parents
Bert Albert Henry Scudder b. 1899 Essex d. 1970
Edith M M Pullen b. abt. 1900 Essex
married July Q 1924 Rochford
It shows they had 3 children, 2 sons, 1 daughter (details private in tree). At least we know Bertram had siblings.
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Blimey!
Quick work!
I'm just looking at that Tree!! (Pain?)
Do you want to make contact, alerting them to the search?
I think all threads lead to Rome, as they say!
Hadleigh and Rochford are both on the outskirts of Southend (my birthplace is shown as Rochford, as that was the maternity hospital for the Southend area) so similarly could be for a Hadleigh baby too!
Thanks for that, everyone pitching in with a bit here and there, we'll soon have the jigsaw done!
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Hi, I have just sent a message to the tree owner with a link to this thread.
Jool
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Brilliant! Let's hope they are relations and able to make 29 September in Enschede.
That's what is great about these forums, everyone doing a bit to help
Much appreciate your involvement, it may just be the one break needed!
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The tree owner has a photo of Bertram's aunt so he must have some contact with the Scudder family
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Well done to all so far. It would be great if we can help this chap In Holland.
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I've had a look on freebmd for Bertram's siblings. Searching Scudder, mother's maiden name Pullen there is only Bertram listed. There are 2 later entries Scudder, mmn PULLIN, 1 male, 1 female both in Hammersmith, but after a bit of mooching it seems they are the children of a Richard Scudder and Ellen Pullin :-[
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Hi, I have received a reply from the tree owner......
Dear Jool,
Thanks for making contact. Bertram was my 1st cousin 1x removed. His grandfather was Stephen Scudder, who was my great grandfather.
As I have been researching other lines of family I did not have more information about Bertram, but I will ask others if they can help as well and get back to you.
Kind regards
Geoff Pain
Monbulk, Victoria, Australia
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There is a photo of the crew here, named but not in order
http://www.rcaf434squadron.com/air-crew-photos/434-aircrew-photos-now-total/17745945
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I've had an e-mail from Rob Lanting in The Netherlands today and passed him links to the threads on here and on WW2talk.com
In this he mentions that he's also looking for relatives of four more of the crew of the Halifax.
These are 'Stuart' USA, and the three Canadians: 'Hovey, Hastings and Bellinger.'
If anyone's up for a further challenge then over to you.
Lot's of info on the crew on WW2talk.com:
http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/48895-help-needed-to-trace-relatives-of-airman-killed-in-holland-1943-by-dutch-researcher/
Moderators - I hope that's Ok with you?
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Hi all,
Iam Rob Lanting one of the researchers in Holland. Thanks all for helping, please hold on until we have found them all. We really,appriciate all of your efforts.
Rob Lanting
Bomberteam Halifax Boekelo
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Hello,
Re Bertram Scudder, my 1st cousin 1x removed. If anyone has his birth certificate, please confirm his names as one website has him as Berthram Thomas Hanley Scudder. War records have him as Henry.
He was the son of Bert Albert H Scudder and Edith Maud Pullen as already mentioned here. Bert Albert had 7 sisters and 3 brothers who survived into adulthood.
These 11 siblings were the children of my great grandfather Stephen Scudder and Elizabeth Mary King.
So Bertram had over 20 cousins.
Ellen Amelia Scudder 1878-1949 married Sidney Daniels Keys (8 children)
William Ernest Scudder 1880-1918 married Florence Myra Maude Smith (4 children)
Louisa Lavinia Scudder 1881-1969 married Arthur George Cranness (3 children)
Peter Henry Scudder 1883-1935 married??
Annie Margaret Alison Scudder 1885-1918 married George Levi Goldsmith (1 child)
Charles Samuel Scudder 1887-1966 married Elizabeth Riley (? children)
Ethel Mary Scudder 1893- married Frederick Thomas Hedges and Charles N Wainwright (?children)
Daisy Edna Scudder 1894-1997 married George S Bridge (?children)
Lilian Mary R Scudder 1901- married William Lawrence Simpson (? surviving children)
Edith May Scudder 1890-1981 married 3 times Albert Cooper James (2 children), Arthur William Darby Legge (my grandfather, have not found a marriage) and Fred Mossman
So there should be lots of surviving relatives, but not many who can remember Bertram.
Further information on this Scudder family would be welcome, especially looking for photos of Stephen, Elizabeth and descendants.
Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
Thanks for posting the details of Bertram and his family, lets hope Rootschatters will jump in and help out with this. The difficulty we have is Rootschat policy does not allow us to name living people for privacy reasons, so it's a bit of a delicate operation.
As you have probably seen, Rob Lanting has posted here so he should get notifications of any posts.
Jool
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G'day Geoff.
William also lived in Thundersley, Church Road in 1911, and was killed in 2nd Battalion Coldstream Guards in August 1918, leaving his widow and at least 4 children, 2 of each sex.
I was involved with the Thundersley Roll of Honour about 2 years ago for a local chap.
I remembered that yesterday, and didn't find Bertram as his address was Hadleigh, the next district to Thundersley. So there should be at least two Scudder branches on the outskirts of Southend.
I have emailed BBC Essex updating them and pointing to these threads here and WW2Talk, so hopefully they will run a follow up piece using the local details that you have all helped to amass.
I have contacted the owner of another Family Tree who didn't think they were related as "all my Scudders are from the Southend area" so I've asked them to check again after reading through the threads and links.
Clary was helped by the Comete Resistance escape line to Gibraltar and was back in the UK by November, where I suspect the information on the RAF Loss Cards may have come from.
I posted on PPRuNe as well and that turned up a photo of Clary.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/520685-gents-time-pprune-power.html
Rob Lanting is already in touch with a niece, so may have the photo but if not, it's on this link...
http://wwii-netherlands-escape-lines.com/airmen-helped/aid-given-to-people-in-need/airmen-helped-by-smit-van-der-heijden/
From the RAF PoW index I've located the 3 Canadians, but Stuart as an American isn't recorded. He may still have been at Luft 3 with a similar number...
Camp PoW No
L3 2621 Hovey C Y J/17106 RCAF
L3 2616 Hastings G V J/17665 RCAF
L3 2624 Lockhart I A L J/18450 RCAF
Note that Hovey is shown as C Y, not C V.
There was an eminent C Y Hovey in the mid fifties involved in some learned research on insects.... could be one and the same. (I didn't follow up because I was looking for a CV Hovey, but noted the similarity.....
Also Lockhart is shown as I A L, not J A L, but it was JAL on the Loss Card so it may just be a transcription error, or we need to look for an Ian or Isaac or similar!
Thanks for everyone's continued help, we need some input from any Canadian friends please!
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[Lilian Mary R Scudder 1901- married William Lawrence Simpson (? surviving children)/quote]
I can see one child Vera , born 1921 Warwickshire, and sadly dying in the same year , 2 more Simpson/Scudder born much later in Essex so either relatives, or a coincidence with names !
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Just an update to say that I've managed to find the death certificate of the father Albert Henry Scudder and a copy is being sent to me. Once we have this we can see what relative reported the death and maybe put out another appeal in the media. This may yield some more results.
I've also contacted a Canadian researcher who helped me with my project which was very similar to Rob Lantings and if he's interested I'll send him links to this thread on here and the one on WW2talk.com
Well done to all trying to help this Dutch researcher who is to be commended for his very worthy efforts.
Chris.
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Chris/Rob et al
I think I may have made contact through facebook with a Richard W Stuart who flew for TWA in the 70's so possibly a son. I've also traced a C Y Hovey to Saskatchewan and have contacted the local entymology (insects!) association where he was a member in 1953 to see if it is the same chap and if any relatives are in the area.
Long shots, but that's about all we have left!
BBC Radio Essex have been sent the links to these threads in the hope they will add this info to the appeal for Scudder relatives in Southend area.
Chris: Do you want to contact the Evening Echo in Southend, it's your ball I'm throwing around, so you should be the "lead" for Rob!
We're still drawing blanks on the Bellingham, Hastings and Lockhart families in Canada, can you RootsChatters reach there better than me? Any Canadian chums?
EDIT: Just received email response from the American Ex PoW Association but all that adds is State of Residence New York and liberated/repatriated 14 July 1945.
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BELLINGER, WILLIAM GEORGE. Rank: Flying Officer. Trade: Nav. Service No: J/13120. Date of Death: 29/09/1943. Age: 21.
Regiment/Service: Royal Canadian Air Force. 434 Sqdn.
Grave Reference: Grave 207. Cemetery: ENSCHEDE EASTERN GENERAL CEMETERY
Additional Information: Son of Harold D. and Elvera L. Bellinger, of Windsor, Ontario, Canada.
(Died in hospital of leg wounds) Loss Card shows him as bomb aimer, but crew member(s) say Navigator
More info on William Bellinger from Canadian overseas deaths.
Birth 15 July 1922 Saskatchewan, Canada
Death 29 Sept 1943
single
Canadian, racial origin German
Profession Navigator RCAF. Total years in this occupation 2
Residence 772 Dougall Ave, Windsor, Ontario
Parents Harold Diebel Bellinger & Vera Louise Deppistch, both born Ontario.
Added
Cause of death: Previously reported missing after air operations, now for official purposes, presumed dead.
The document is not dated.
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Kevin, I'm quite happy for you to sort out an appeal in the Southend Echo or other local publications. Once I've received the death certificate I'll scan it and send it to you by e-mail.
I don't know whether you've used the main e-mail address for BBC Essex but I was given Dave Monks contact as: essex.monk@bbc.co.uk
If you're happy keeping him in the loop as well that's fine by me as well.
There is also another method I thought of worth considering to trace family. Looking on a map of Meadow Rd in Hadleigh where the father lived (address produced by EnglandPhil on WW2talk - well done Phil) we could leaflet the houses to see if anyone remembers the family?
Chris.
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I've noticed there has been more info posted for Ivan Arthur Lewis Lockhart on ww2talk. I have just spotted an ancestry tree showing a photo of what appears to be Ivan as a baby with his grandfather. I will contact the tree owner, although they don't appear to have been active for some time.
It shows a spouse and 3 children, 1 female, 2 male - all private
Jool
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Thanks for that.
The RAF Loss Card clearly shows as JAL, but the PoW records were IAL.
So we can concentrate on the Ivan Arthur Lewis chap.
Must admit I haven't checked WW2Talk today, been busy tracing on facebook and elsewhere.
Have emailed Castle Point sub editor on Southend Evening Echo to alert him here and elsewhere.
Thanks again to all for your assistance for Chris's appeal.
Leafleting would need someone in the area, I no longer am.
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Here's a link to Ivan Lockhart's obituary, with a photograph of him.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/thestar/obituary.aspx?n=ivan-arthur-lewis-lockhart&pid=151480263#fbLoggedOut
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Info on George Victor Hastings, he was a Canadian politician.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hastings_(Manitoba_politician)
obituary
http://passages.winnipegfreepress.com/passage-details/id-71125/
George's wife's obituary with photo
http://obits.dignitymemorial.com/dignity-memorial/obituary.aspx?n=Margaret-Hastings&lc=3751&pid=164568483&mid=5517283
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Hi all, came across this website, maybe Rob could contact them with details of the search for Bertram's family. The link below says they have old photos of victory parties in Hadleigh including Meadow Road where Bertram's father lived.
http://www.hadleighhistory.org.uk/page_id__436_path__0p17p.aspx
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Dear all Scudder searchers,
Iam happy to announce that I have got contact with Scudder relatives.
Mr. Geoffrey Norman Pain from Australia and Carla Taylor from the UK sent me emails.
Carla: yes Bertram is my mothers cousin, Geoff mum Sylvia and my nan are sisters. Another interesting fact about Bertram you might want to know King Alfred the Great king of England in 867 was Bertrams 31st great grandfather direct down the blood line so there is a lot of royalty in the family early on.Carla
Thanks a lot if you where one of the forum-posters!
Because we are so succesfull in such a short time (4 days) since my radio interview, I have also set out information to Canadian radiostations. People close to the military in Canada are already helping and finding out information on three other crewmembers.
If you like, you can help me on these ones. The information is much better, as 2 of the 3 guys lived a long life after the war:
1) Flight Officer W.G. (William George) Bellinger Navigator, Royal Canadian Airforce 434 Sqdn. Crashed and died 29 September 1943, Age 21. Son of Harold D. en Elvera L. Bellinger, from Windsor, Ontario, Canada.
2) P/O C.T. Hovey
He was a busdriver for years in Niagara Falls, Canada. Must be somewhere relatives living. Heard he
passed away a few years ago.
3) P/O G. Hastings
Unfortunately not much information about this navigator.
Rob
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Everybody,
Somebody found a newsarticle about the death of the wife of George Hastings, the navigator on the Halifax bomber. Unfortunately George died in 2002 and his wife, last april.
The guy in the guestbook said George and Margaret where very close friends and he was with them a lot in his childhood. I fortunately found him on Facebook and sent him a message.
To be continued.
Rob
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Clarence Y Hovey headstone, possibly our C Y Hovey
http://www.canadianheadstones.com/on/view.php?id=266338
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Clarence Y Hovey headstone, possibly our C Y Hovey
http://www.canadianheadstones.com/on/view.php?id=266338
Jool, thanks a lot! We did not have his gravestone yet.. This will get us a bit closer.
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Just saw the post on WW2talk re. the phone number of J Hovey. The address is exactly the same an an entry for C Y Hovey in the 1995/1996 Canadian phone directory. Must be a relation!
Jool
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I've already contacted the Hadleigh History Society in Jool's link, with details of the search for Bertram.
I didn't realise he had such a royal lineage, they could have snuck an Alfred or Ethelred in his names! With my luck, my 31st ggfather probably fed Alfreds pigs!
Glad to see such progress, we now have all the full names and though the crew members themselves have passed on, the hope is that relatives will get to hear of the search.
2nd Lt Jackson Temple Clary (pilot) USAAF Service Number O.885969; escaped; (18 operations)
Pilot Officer George Victor Hastings, Navigator, CAN/J17665; PoW;
Pilot Officer Ivan Arthur Lewis Lockhart W/Op; CAN/J18450; PoW;
Technical Sergeant Richard William Stuart USAAF; 10601019; (mid upper) PoW;
Pilot Officer Clarence York Hovey CAN/J17408 (rear) PoW.
Apart from Clary who was smuggled through the Comete escape line to Gibraltar and back to the UK by November '43, the rest were in Stalag Luft III before being released/repatriated in July 1945.
If Rob could tell us how the search progresses and come back with details of the commemoration of the 70th anniversary of the crash, that's all we ask.
It's great how so much has been gathered so quickly, thanks to you all.
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I've already contacted the Hadleigh History Society in Jool's link, with details of the search for Bertram.
I didn't realise he had such a royal lineage, they could have snuck an Alfred or Ethelred in his names! With my luck, my 31st ggfather probably fed Alfreds pigs!
Glad to see such progress, we now have all the full names and though the crew members themselves have passed on, the hope is that relatives will get to hear of the search.
2nd Lt Jackson Temple Clary (pilot) USAAF Service Number O.885969; escaped; (18 operations)
Pilot Officer George Victor Hastings, Navigator, CAN/J17665; PoW;
Pilot Officer Ivan Arthur Lewis Lockhart W/Op; CAN/J18450; PoW;
Technical Sergeant Richard William Stuart USAAF; 10601019; (mid upper) PoW;
Pilot Officer Clarence York Hovey CAN/J17408 (rear) PoW.
Apart from Clary who was smuggled through the Comete escape line to Gibraltar and back to the UK by November '43, the rest were in Stalag Luft III before being released/repatriated in July 1945.
If Rob could tell us how the search progresses and come back with details of the commemoration of the 70th anniversary of the crash, that's all we ask.
It's great how so much has been gathered so quickly, thanks to you all.
Hi Kevin,
On the moment it is getting crazy. Good progresses though! Scudder relatives have contacted me today, which is great! Geoff in Australia contacted me, as a far cousin. Iam also in contact with another relative of him in the UK.
On the moment Iam close on Hastings in the Winnipeg area. I have contacted a guy who said he was close with the family. George died in 2002 and his wife in 2013. I also emailed a few radiostations around Winnipeg with our story.
We received Hovey and Bellinger telephone numbers, who are possibly relatives. Iam thinking to ask a Canadian who wants to call for us, due to the reception will be much better and your English is a bit better. Anyone who wants to try to call?
Otherwise I will ask my teammates to try it tomorrow.
Thanks all for your help, Kevin and all the others, great work!
Rob
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Thanks are not really due to me, Chris (Stan) picked up on it and people here with far better skills than mine were able to find the links.
The reward will actually be in knowing that we succeeded and despite the passage of 70 years, these men are not forgotten.
Please use your contacts in Canada, they will be on the same Time Zone!
Keep us posted, as we will you!
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Edith Maud Scudder (nee Pullen), Bertram's mother died at 39 Norwood Drive, Benfleet, Essex in 1979. This might help if anyone is checking for so far unknown siblings of Bertram.
The solicitors handling her probate were Ashley Kalms Travell & Co., 56 London Road, Southend-on-Sea. (Source - The London Gazette 9 Oct 1980)
Geoff
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Hi Geoff, that is interesting information. Since Phil on WW2talk found the fathers last known address and year of death I've traced his death certificate. On Monday I ordered a copy of this and it should be with me hopefully in today's post.
When we have the name of the relative from this document we can use it in a newspaper appeal adding what you've just provided. Kevin is going to approach the Southend Echo informing them of Rob Lantings project and of the desire to trace relatives.
I've also been in contact with David Smith in London Ontario who has carried out successful research of this nature many times. David was instrumental in helping me with my own project and even came over to the U.K. to attend our Lancaster Crew memorial unveiling ceremony in Colchester this Spring.
David may be able to help with this project as well and is looking at the information accumulated to date.
Best regards,
Chris.
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Bertram had over 20 cousins. Here is a little guide, corrections and additions welcome.
Ellen Amelia Scudder 1878-1949 married Sidney Daniels Keys 1874-1064
> 8 cousins of Bertram
Vera Joan Keys 1921-2009 married Robert Arthur Bridge 1908-1986 - 2 children
Ethel Keys 1901-1993 married Frederick Arthur Dawes 1902-1988
Valentine Emily Keys 1902-1997 married Frederick Charles Walter Horner 1904 - 2 children
Mabel Lily Keys 1906-1936 married Cyril Wiggins 1910-1991 – 1 child
Sydney George Keys 1909-1993 married Edith D Smith 1911-1992 - 4 children
Olive Mary Keys 1916-2001 married Cecil Frank Cutmore 1916-1986 - 2 children
3 Keys brothers killed in a motorbike accident
Harry John Keys1899-1928
William Charles Keys 1904-1928
Arthur James Keys 1911-1928
William Ernest Scudder 1880-1918 married Florence Myra Maude Smith
> 4 cousins of Bertram
Ernest William Scudder 1903-1983 married Eva Gladys Cubitt – 1 daughter
Albert Sydney Scudder 1905-1994 married Elizabeth Mary Reeve 1912-2006 - 3 children
Evelyn Scudder 1907-1992 married Douglas Jones 1905-1990 - 4 children
Doris Maud 1908-2000 Scudder married Arthur William G Staines 1904-1993 – 6 children
Louisa Lavinia Scudder 1881-1969 married Arthur George Cranness
> 4 cousins of Bertram
George Frederick Cranness 1907-2001 married Freda Muriel Pearce 1917-2000 – 4 children
Alan Arthur Cranness 1913-1988 married Edith Dorothy Spurgeon 1914-1984
William Ernest Cranness 1922-1947
Stanley Bert Cranness 1916-1943 war casualty in Italy
Annie Margaret Alison Scudder 1885-1918 married George Levi Goldsmith 1879-1953
>1 cousin of Bertram
Ernest George Goldsmith 1908-1992 married Ann E E West
Ethel Mary Scudder 1893- married Frederick Thomas Hedges and Charles N Wainwright
> 1 cousin of Bertram
Iris M Wainwright 1917-1983 married Frederick Fennell 1909-1986 – 1 child
Daisy Edna Scudder 1894-1997 married George S Bridge 1882-1961 - 2 children
> 2 cousins of Bertram possibly still alive
Lilian Mary R Scudder 1901- married William Lawrence Simpson 1900-1974 no surviving children found
Edith May Scudder 1890-1981 married 3 times
with Albert Cooper James 1891-1922
> 2 cousins of Bertram
Alan Cooper James Todd 1912-1987 married Annie Bertha Prince 1916-1986
Vera Edith James 1915-2008 married Ernest Pickford 1920-1988 – 3 children
with
Arthur William Darby Legge 1894-1955 (my grandfather)
> Living cousin of Bertram (my mother) married 3 times, first husband Edwin Rudge 1917-1944, airman shot down over France.
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I now have a copy of Albert Scudders death cert. This bears his wife's name reporting his death. I must admit I thought she'd died before him until I read Geoff's post late last night.
There is some other information on the document which Kevin can use in the newspaper appeal - I have e-mailed you Kevin.
Best to all,
Chris.
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Just saw the post on WW2talk re. the phone number of J Hovey. The address is exactly the same an an entry for C Y Hovey in the 1995/1996 Canadian phone directory. Must be a relation!
Jool
Jool, could you send me this phonenumber? I will let somebody try it in Canada.
Thanks a lot!
Rob
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I now have a copy of Albert Scudders death cert. This bears his wife's name reporting his death. I must admit I thought she'd died before him until I read Geoff's post late last night.
There is some other information on the document which Kevin can use in the newspaper appeal - I have e-mailed you Kevin.
Best to all,
Chris.
Chris, great work! That sounds really interesting.
Let me know how things are going once you have posted the information.
Rob
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Just saw the post on WW2talk re. the phone number of J Hovey. The address is exactly the same an an entry for C Y Hovey in the 1995/1996 Canadian phone directory. Must be a relation!
Jool
Jool, could you send me this phonenumber? I will let somebody try it in Canada.
Thanks a lot!
Rob
Hi Rob
I have sent you a p.m.
Jool
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Hi all
Just heard from Rob, they have contact with a daughter of Clarence Hovey via the phone number in the directory. Big thanks to Dave (Alieneyes) on WW2 talk for his contribution to this ;D
Jool
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Hi, I have just received a message from Rob Lanting, he asked me to post it here. Could someone also post it on ww2talk to keep them informed. Thanks.
Could you post a message on my behalf?
1) we found a daughter of Hovey, via your contact.
A woman picked up and she said her mother lived there.
She was married to Hovey for 8 years.
She sent us details of a direct daughter of Clarence Hovey.
2) we are almost in contact to Hastings relatives via
details on the internet due to the death of Margaret, the wife
of George Hastings. (april) Somebody was extremely interested
and said he will pass the info thrue to relatives right away.
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Dear all,
Thanks again for all helping us.
To inform you, we have found relatives of Scudder and Hovey. Since today we are succesfully in contact to the daughter of Hovey. She was very exited hearing about us.
Besides this, we are very close on Hastings. Via the condoleances on the internet we have traced down people who have sent our information towards closer relatives. We are awaiting respond.
Still, 2 more crewmembers to go...
Technical Sergeant Richard William Stuart USAAF; 10601019; (mid upper) PoW
William George Bellinger.
We have also heard there is a big chance that the Mayor will attend on our ceremony.
Rob
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That's good news.
Regarding Bertram, I've now twice emailed the local daily paper, the Evening Echo , but haven't heard from them or seen anything yet. I'll chase again tomorrow.
As regards the Ceremony, what are the details? I know Adrian van Zandvoort had representatives from US, NZ and UK governments attend. When where etc would be useful in case relatives have become aware and may just be lurking in the background.
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Did someone mention a connection with New York for Richard William Stuart?
I found a record of a medal award for a Richard W Stuart in New York.
New York Conspicuous Service Cross
Name: Stuart, Richard W
Rank: blank
Branch of svc: USA
Mailing address : 13 1/2 Lawrence Avenue, Potsdam, NY 13676
Awarded: 9 June 1989
I had not heard of this award (you guys probably have) so I googled it
http://dmna.ny.gov/awards/csc.html
This Richard W Stuart was born 15 or 16 May 1922 - do we know d.o.b for our man?
Sadly he passed away in 1998 in Potsdam, see here
http://crestleaf.com/p/50ba977d651a69e4d40ae668/richard-w-stuart
WW11 POW
Richard W Stuart, Technical Sergeant
Residence: NEW YORK
Report date: 29 Sept 1943
Latest report date 14 July 1945
Air Corps
Detained Germany camp 02
Returned to Military Control, Liberated or Repatriated
I have found him listed in old directories in Potsdam with a wife (Rob, I will send you p.m. with her name). Not sure if she is still living. In 1958 he is listed as Instructor ROTC which after more googling I found was Reserve Officers Training Corps.
Has to be our man doesn't it ?
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Re Richard W Stuart
I think our man was Richard Ward Stuart born in Maryland 23 Feb 1922 and died in Melbourne, Florida 24 Mar 2003.
This one appears in Air Force uniform with his brother on a number of family trees. I have contacted the tree owners and hope they respond. I have asked if we can use his photo.
If this is the correct Richard W Suart, he might have served in Korea and Vietnam as well as WWII.
Geoff
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we now have all the full names and though the crew members themselves have passed on, the hope is that relatives will get to hear of the search.
2nd Lt Jackson Temple Clary (pilot) USAAF Service Number O.885969; escaped; (18 operations)
Pilot Officer George Victor Hastings, Navigator, CAN/J17665; PoW;
Pilot Officer Ivan Arthur Lewis Lockhart W/Op; CAN/J18450; PoW;
Technical Sergeant Richard William Stuart USAAF; 10601019; (mid upper) PoW;
Pilot Officer Clarence York Hovey CAN/J17408 (rear) PoW.
Hi Geoff, I understood that it had been established that his middle name was William not Ward.
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Hi everybody,
I have emailed a relative of Clary, she lives in New York.
Maybe she knows the area of Potsdam where possible relatives of Stuart lives.
Rob
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I may be the guilty party for the confusion of William and Ward as middle names. I can only find Richard W Stuart and I think I simply took a guess at William. Of course, Americans seem to have a much more diverse range of names, possibly from a matriarchal surname.
Records have been found for a Richard WARD Stuart which seem to reflect PoW status and nothing for a R William Stuart, so the balance is leaning towards WARD as a likely middle name...
Apologies for my assumption, if it's causing red herrings to appear.
The Southend Evening Echo has contacted me, so the story should appear shortly, with the hope that more family will respond.
I also assisted with a Roll of Honour for Thundersley and turned up a William Scudder in the Grenadier Guards killed in 1918 from Thundersleigh. That chap had different parents, but seems to link back to the Stephen Scudder mentioned previously by Geoff Pain.
William Ernest Scudder 1880-1918 married Florence Myra Maude Smith
> 4 cousins of Bertram
Ernest William Scudder 1903-1983 married Eva Gladys Cubitt – 1 daughter
Albert Sydney Scudder 1905-1994 married Elizabeth Mary Reeve 1912-2006 - 3 children
Evelyn Scudder 1907-1992 married Douglas Jones 1905-1990 - 4 children
Doris Maud 1908-2000 Scudder married Arthur William G Staines 1904-1993 – 6 children
Whilst searching on WW2Talk for "Scudder" it also took me to an entry for this chap....
Regiment: Grenadier Guards. Service Number: 2620278. Lance-Corporal. Name: SCUDDER, A. (Albert Sydney?) Prisoner Number: 142078. Camp: Stalag 11a. Altengrabow, Saxony-Anhalt, Germany.
Just curious if that was also a Hadleigh man, being as he was in the Grenadier Guards.....
.... and then I re read Geoff Pain's Family Tree listings on Page 4 regarding the Cranness family...
CRANNESS, STANLEY BERT. Rank: Private. Service No: 6022027. Date of Death: 30/09/1943. Age: 27.
Regiment/Service: The Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey). 2/6th Bn.
Grave Reference: VI. C. 38. Cemetery: SALERNO WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information: Son of Arthur George and Louisa Lavinia Cranness, of Thundersley, Essex.
... so a possible third branch of the family ....
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Hi Kevin
I have just messaged to Rob a phone number of a daughter of Richard WILLIAM Stuart. I suppose it may still be worth a call just in case.
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Richard WARD Stuart and his wife have both passed away. Hopefully the tree owners Geoff contacted will come back with more info on the family.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/floridatoday/obituary.aspx?n=margaret-stuart&pid=127996083&fhid=6156#fbLoggedOut
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Hi all
Rob contacted the daughter of Richard WILLIAM Stuart and he is not the man we are looking for. All hopes are pinned on Richard WARD Stuart, his wife's obituary does not mention any children so we may have to look for nieces/nephews, he had a brother and a half sister (both deceased) according to the trees. Geoff Pain has sent messages to the tree owners.
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Hi Rob, Has there been any contact with Ivan Lockhart's family? I messaged a tree owner on Monday but have had no reply as yet.
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Re Richard Ward Stuart 1922-2003
By a remarkable quirk of fate, I now find I can place Richard Ward Stuart in my family tree! I have had a response from one person and she is checking with family to see if we can find out more about him, and if he was the one who was on the flight and a POW.
Geoff
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Everybody,
We know he must be our man.
My teammate Erik contacted the funeral contacts of his wife
and his brother. She said she would send our message
thrue. We have seen Richard Ward lived in Wiesbaden
and his nickname was Dick. This information is right
in comparison to the info we knew of him.
He went back out of Wiesbaden (germany) to Boekelo
one time to visit and thank the family when he crashed there in
september 1943.
Rob
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By the way, my teammate Erik will join here too.
So he can chat with us and combine/compare his info.
Rob
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Re Richard (Dick) Ward Stuart 1922-2003
I will send Rob the photo of the brothers in uniform that was posted on the Ancestry website.
Geoff
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Guys,
Thank you very much for the photo.
We are happy to announce that also the relatives of Hastings has been found.
They will contact us as soon as possible and where already interested in the ceremony.
Rob
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Hiya all!! Just to make sure the info I gave Rob is passed on right, here is what I found out and done so far :
Found Richard on through the Nationwide Gravesite Locator. Je is burried at Florida National Cemetary.
STUART, RICHARD W
CMSGT US AIR FORCE
WORLD WAR II, KOREA, VIETNAM
DATE OF BIRTH: 02/23/1922
DATE OF DEATH: 03/24/2003
I contacted the cemetary, explained who we are and what we're doing and they promised me to pass on the information to the contacts they have of Richard.
Also found his wife Margaret, she died in 2009. If you read the obituary then it is for sure she was married to 'our' Richard. Especially if you read later on they call him Dick. (we have a letter where he signs off with that name) http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/floridatoday/obituary.aspx?n=Margaret-Stuart&pid=127996083#fbLoggedOut (http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/floridatoday/obituary.aspx?n=Margaret-Stuart&pid=127996083#fbLoggedOut)
I called the funeral service and told the same story again. They also promised to pass on the info to the know contacts for Margaret.
On ancestry I found Richard's brother William J Stuart. (Dick and Bill) So by that time I was 100% sure we have the right family :) If you check the added pictures, you will find out they are placed by Elizabeth "Betty" Jane Quigley, William's wife. William past away in 2003, Elizabeth died last year. But (lost the obituary, got it somewhere) she has two children and some more who may be in posession of documents and articles. It is a bit of a wild guess, but if I see what she posted on ancestry, it hopefully works out.
I also had a nice phoneconversation with the daughter of Hovey. She is very proud of her dad, and was pleased to hear about our actions. She will try to send me as much as posible, so I keep you all posted on that as well.
Now racing of for a coffee/lunch appointment, so cheers all, and compliments for what you are doing to help us. It it very appriciated
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Hi Erik, great to have you join us ;D
In case you cannot find the obituary of Elizabeth "Betty" Stuart it's here
http://www.lansingstar.com/obituaries/9011-betty-stuart
Also, William and Elizabeth's son Jeffrey (scroll down page to Stuart)
http://www.joycetice.com/clippings/tcobit14.htm
Geoff, that's amazing that you can place Richard Ward Stuart in your tree!
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Just a brief update on the Scudder appeal in the Southend (and District) Evening Echo.
As I couldn't see anything on their website, I tried "Scudder" in their search box.
Not only was there a link to Rob Lanting contacting them back in 2004 but also congratulation notices for several Scudder children.... Hopefully, as there still seem to be Scudders living locally when the item is published we should have several responses..... that is, if they are at all interested. We have to remember that in France, Belgium and Holland where they were occupied for many years, the sacrifices of the bomber crews and others is still commemorated. Over here, things tend to be forgotten.
Let's hope they are proud of their relation and do respond.
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It would be great if we could (with the help of photographs and family) put names to faces on this photo of the crew which lists their names but not in order
http://www.rcaf434squadron.com/air-crew-photos/434-aircrew-photos-now-total/17745945
Looking at this photo of Lockhart I would say he is the guy in the middle.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/thestar/obituary.aspx?n=ivan-arthur-lewis-lockhart&pid=151480263#fbLoggedOut
I've been looking at the photo of Stuart on the family tree but can't make my mind up which one is him.
Perhaps a link to the photo could be sent to Hovey's daughter to pick out her father.
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Jool,
for as far we know (thanks to family of Clary) the men on the crewphoto are (from left to right) : Scudder, Hovey, Stewart, Lockhart, Bellinger, Johnnie Dodge and Clary.
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Just a brief update on the Scudder appeal in the Southend (and District) Evening Echo.
As I couldn't see anything on their website, I tried "Scudder" in their search box.
Not only was there a link to Rob Lanting contacting them back in 2004 but also congratulation notices for several Scudder children.... Hopefully, as there still seem to be Scudders living locally when the item is published we should have several responses..... that is, if they are at all interested. We have to remember that in France, Belgium and Holland where they were occupied for many years, the sacrifices of the bomber crews and others is still commemorated. Over here, things tend to be forgotten.
Let's hope they are proud of their relation and do respond.
When is the item going to be published Kevin?
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Kevin has managed to get the article in the Southend Echo for Monday (12th August).
Well done again Kevin.
FYI the link to the BBC Essex report is now expired. I've contacted them to see whether they might re install it for those joining in on the search.
Regards to all.
Chris.
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Not to detract from the main issue here, but the mention of "Johnny" Dodge reminded me of a photo on the 434 Sqdn Association page
13 - P/O S.H. Dunn - P/O G.V. Hastings - Sgt N. Venber - Sgt G.B. Hellens - P/O A.H.B. Hall - Sgt I.A. McDonald - Sgt O. Harper. Members of Crew 13
http://www.rcaf434squadron.com/debriefing-coffee/socializing-and-meetings/663959
L to R W/O2 N. Venber, F/O "Johnny" Dodge
F/O "Johnny" Dodge (right) & W/O2 N. Venber (from crew 13) who is a keen and capable member of his crew, N. Venber knows a little about every other crew member’s job. As soon as the navigator receives the target, Venber gets out his maps of the area and discussed the route with the crew, noting carefully pin points, landmarks, etc. He sees the meteorology officer along with his navigator to get information on the winds, clouds over the route and target area, position of the moon at zero hour.
Here he is with the navigator in his crew (right). Flying Officer J.S.H. “Johnny” Dodge , Middleton , N.S.
W/O2 N. Venber currently member of crew 13, later transferred to 420 squadron and "FTR" KIA.
J.S.H. “Johnny" Dodge (spare) 21
VENBER, NICK. Rank: Pilot Officer. Service No: J/85634. Date of Death: 01/05/1944.
Regiment/Service: Royal Canadian Air Force. 420 Sqdn.
Panel Reference: Panel 253. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL
and
DODGE, JAMES HARPER. Rank: Flying Officer. Service No: J/21046. Date of Death: 28/01/1944. Age: 20.
Regiment/Service: Royal Canadian Air Force. 426 Sqdn.
Panel Reference: Panel 245. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of Freeman James Dodge and Edith Catherne Dodge, of Victoria, British Columbia, Canada.
The photo appears to be dated October 1943 but doesn't mention that "Johnny" Dodge (if this is he) also FTR, and that was Jan '44 as against Venber in March '44.
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Here's another obituary for Lockhart with more info about his life after the war. Has contact been made with his family yet?
http://yourlifemoments.ca/sitepages/obituary.asp?oid=503506
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Here's another obituary for Lockhart with more info about his life after the war. Has contact been made with his family yet?
http://yourlifemoments.ca/sitepages/obituary.asp?oid=503506
Jool
Thanks for the site!l
Yes we are already in contact with a daughter and son of Lockhart, Kevin and Bronwyn.
Rob
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Dear all,
First of all, a great compliment to David Smith, he found relatives of Mr. Hastings.
We are awaiting response of them, as they allready have been informed about or search.
David, thanks again your offer to help us out, we definately could not do this without the help of you and others! Things went fast!
On the moment we are also very happy to tell that Geoffrey and Alan Soderstrom (webmaster 434 squadron website) found Bellinger relatives! There is still a brother and the wife of this brother living! I received a emailadress of her. Walter, the brother of William George Bellinger, has quite a short term memory but is still living. The cousins of William George are on travel, and get back soon. We will contact them too. Great stuff. Geoffrey, thank you so much for helping out on the ancestry information on William George Bellinger.
Everybody thanks again. Hopefully Stuart and Hastings relatives will contact us soon.
Rob
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The local press (Castle Point Echo)in the Hadleigh, South Essex area have published the appeal for family of Bertram today - well done to Kevin for getting that sorted out.
I have also traced a cousin of Bertram in nearby Benfleet (with Geoff Pains help) - Daphne Benson, but learnt from neighbours that she sadly died in April this year. Her brother Dennis Bridge had a son who lives in Leicestershire somewhere which is the next line of enquiry. The newspaper appeal however may yield further results.
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The Hadleigh and Thundersley Community Archive has very kindly published my contact page re the Scudder family
http://www.hadleighhistory.org.uk/page_id__457.aspx
Geoff
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Kevin Regan has published more information on Bertram with the same host.
http://www.hadleighhistory.org.uk/page_id__456_path__0p17p.aspx
Congratulations Kevin on the media coverage you attracted. Chris sent me scans of the newspaper article.
Geoff
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The article says it really "If it were my family, I hope someone would try every possible means to get in touch".
I'm doing no more than anyone else so, whilst the "Thanks" are appreciated, they equally belong to ALL who have helped, Chris, Jool and Dave particularly.
I just hope that the Scudder relations do respond and are interested in this member of their family.
That will be the reward I'll most appreciate, putting them in touch.
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Just to let those interested know that BBC Essex here in the U.K. will be running the story again on the 'Dave Monk' programme with an update of what has been accomplished with the research. This will be available on i.player up to 23rd August.
Time of transmission will be 11.30am Friday 16.08.13.
Regards,
Chris.
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Rob Lanting has forwarded a Dutch newspaper article about the project which I've posted on WW2talk.com where this investigation is current. (Membership needed to read the article).
See post 46. Link:
http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/48895-help-needed-to-trace-relatives-of-airman-killed-in-holland-1943-by-dutch-researcher/page-2#entry577308
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This morning BBC Essex broadcast an on air follow up report and interview. It will be available on i - player soon. But in the meantime here is a link to the programme:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i76aC9U2CQ0&feature=c4-overview&list=UUW4C8-kCyxXGW7tjtwKp4Lw
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Thanks for posting the link Stan, just listened to it - great stuff. Lets hope the radio broadcast and Kevin's newspaper appeal will find more relatives. It was also good to see/hear Rob and Erik ;D
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Here's a link to the appeal in The Echo
http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/castlepoint/10606424.Hunt_for_the_family_of_tragic_Hadleigh_airman/?ref=rss
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A comment has been posted on the Echo website regarding Bertram, they say "He was my nan's cousin unfortunately she died a few years ago". Has this been followed up?
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A comment has been posted on the Echo website regarding Bertram, they say "He was my nan's cousin unfortunately she died a few years ago". Has this been followed up?
I placed a reply to the online newspaper article requesting the poster to get in touch with Rob Lanting but have heard no more from him to say whether he's been contacted.
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Jool,
I've seen the comment. So far I haven't heard anything from Rob that he had a message. So we have to wait.
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To keep families, friends, press and officials posted I have a standard mail which I send to give some information. There will be another update, but as things go so fast at the moment, it is still pending :)
But, here is the one I've been sending out recently :
This year it is exactly 70 years ago the plane crashed near Boekelo (Netherlands) on the 29th of September 1943. Of seven crewmembers, two died and the other five survived. We are proud to tell you that we will reveal a monument for this crew in Boekelo on the 29th of September during a special memorial service. The Mayor of Enschede will be there to give a speech and reveal the monument. The Chairman of the Southend-on-Sea Branch of the Royal Airforces Association want to send a wreath (they may be coming over as well) as a mark of respect to Bertram Scudder, one of the two dead crewmembers. Sgt Laurie Dyck (assistant to the Canadian Defence Attaché in The Hague) and her husband will join the memorial. So far we have 13 family members of the crew (Scudder, Hastings, Clary and Lockhart) confirmed who are coming to the Netherlands for the memorial. Also many families of the Dutch people who helped the airmen will be present.
Since we have so much information, we are also writing a book about this plane and his crew and are making a website for it. A local artist is making a painting , which we are going to use as a book cover also, from the crewmembers (the faces when they where flying that plane). So we never forget their faces. This week we also appeared with our story in the regional newspaper. Through our worldwide friends there will be articles published in Canadian, England’s and USA local newspapers.
Here is a short list of what we found out so far: (there is more than I can put in this mail)
The German Ace Prinz zur Lippe-Weissenveld shot down the plane. He was a highly decorated pilot and far related to Prins Bernhard (our King’s grandfather).
American Pilot Jackson Temple Clary returned back to England after help from the underground and people from the ‘Comet Line’. We have contact with his family and have many documents, photo’s and dvd’s with his story about the crash. We are also in touch with the Dutch family who helped him. In 1943 Clary gave 16 year old Lies van Oven a little ring. Lies is still alive and in possession of that ring. She and her family will also attend the memorial.
Canadian Wireless Operator Ivan Lockhart was captured and send to Stalag Luft 3. This prison camp is well known from the movie ‘The Great Escape’ . We are in contact with his family and have his memoires. We are all thrilled to have them, he tell’s his story from the crash until his liberation. And was actively involved with the preparations of the escape.
American Richard Stuart survived the war and returned to the USA. He also served during the Korean and the Vietnam War and returned to Boekelo 25 years after the crash. We have contact with the family who helped him in 1943. They provided us with documents and pictures. Just yesterday we got in contact with his nephew.
Clarence York Hovey, also from America, got captured and send to Stalag Luft 3. In 1979 a Dutch man tried to get him in touch with the family who helped Hovey. Clarence never came to the Netherlands due to health issues. Two weeks ago I came in contact with his daughter. She was exited to hear what we have been doing and is going to send us his logbook, scrapbook and many pictures. She also told me he too had been active in preparation for ‘The Great Escape’. After the war he worked for the Ministry of Agriculture and later he was teaching History and Science at a high school. Later he became a tour bus driver.
George Victor Hastings returned to Canada after the war and became a political activist and businessman in Manitoba, Canada. He challenged Errick Willings for the leadership of the Progressive Party of Manitoba in 1950. He died in 2002.
Canadian William George Bellinger was severely wounded, managed to bail out and was found hanging with his parachute in a tree. Local people managed to free him, but he died at the home of the Nijhuis Family. We have contact with that family and have newspaper clippings and documents. Today a witness called. His wife seen it happen and she has a photograph of him.
One of the youngest crewmember who died is 18 year old Bertram Scudder from the United Kingdom. Through radio BBC Essex two weeks ago we have found family members and they will attend the memorial as well. They are trying to find out if they have some pictures of him as well. Past week we’ve been on air again, BBC Essex was thrilled to hear the latest news.
Both men are buried in Enschede at the Eastern Cemetary.
If you are interested to ‘hear’ our story, this is a link to the BBC Essex broadcast last week : http://www.schaddelee.com/ww2/bbc_essex_scudder.mp3
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I've noticed there has been more info posted for Ivan Arthur Lewis Lockhart on ww2talk. I have just spotted an ancestry tree showing a photo of what appears to be Ivan as a baby with his grandfather. I will contact the tree owner, although they don't appear to have been active for some time.
It shows a spouse and 3 children, 1 female, 2 male - all private
Jool
Hi all, I have received a message from the tree owner, he is Ivan Lockhart's son. He said his sister has been in contact with the researchers as she has more documents and information and lives closer to their mother. To quote from his message "what you are doing really touches our hearts"
Jool
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I have now received Edith Scudders probate details and have several addresses of benefactors from her 1979 will.
To save time, bearing in mind the unveiling date is on the 29th of this month, is there anyone willing to do some direct door knocking to see whether these people are still at the same addresses and are related or know of relatives whereabouts?
Addresses that need to be contacted are in:
Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire, x2
Dursley, Gloucestershire,
Leigh on Sea, Essex. x2
PM me on here or by direct e-mail if you are willing to do some leg work: chrisstanfield@ntlworld.com
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Hi Chris, it may be worth posting a message on the Hertfordshire and Gloucestershire boards too, there may be people in those areas who are able to help who may not have seen the Scudder thread.
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Hi Chris, it may be worth posting a message on the Hertfordshire and Gloucestershire boards too, there may be people in those areas who are able to help who may not have seen the Scudder thread.
Good idea - I've have now posted on those two sections of the forum and also on ww2talk.com
Cheers,
Chris.
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Hopefully you will get the right people.. we are still searching for more info about Scudder.. a picture would be priority one I gues ;)
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Dear Geoff
Very pleased to see your Scudder information as it seems that we share the same great grandfather - Stephen Scudder. I'm Daisy Edna Bridge (nee Scudder's) grandson and named after Stephen!
If I can assist you with some Scudder information please feel free to contact me. I've joined the roots chat today specifically to be able to reply to this but cannot use the PM system as yet.
In respect of Bertram I have contacted Rob Lanting and advised him of the connection and will see if I can attend the remembrance meeting.
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Dear Stan
In respect of your post re Daphne Benson and Dennis Bridge they were my aunt and father respectively, unfortunately now both deceased. Please call off any research in Leicestershire - don't know where that came from as we are in the South West.
I've emailed Rob Lanting about my Scudder connection and will try to get to the ceremony on the 29th.
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Hi Wesley, welcome to Rootschat. You need to make 3 posts before you can use the pm system. Post one more message and you will be able to use it straight away.
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Hi Jools
Thank you for your welcome and advice - good to see experienced help is readily available on this forum.
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Hi Daisy / Wesley
As I mentioned in post 84 I obtained the probate of Edith Scudder and have been trying to trace those listed on the document as beneficiaries.
Out of the five listed I've made contact with just one, Elizabeth Mack who is now 87 years old and sadly isn't very interested in what's happening. Her son was also listed on the will and I asked her if she would speak to him to see if he was interested in the memorial. This was on 7th September and I've heard no more.
The other people listed I've tried to find without success. This has involved visiting addresses in person in Leigh on Sea.
If you - or Geoff for that matter - would like to see the will then let me know and I'll e-mail it to you.
I note your comments about Stephen Bridge - I hadn't made any progress there anyway.
A few things which may be of interest to those involved with the project. Elizabeth Mack says that Bertram Scudder lied about his age to enlist. His nick name was 'Bubbles.'
Edith and Albert Scudder were god parents to Elizabeth.
At some point she thinks Edith and Albert visited Bertrams grave in Holland.
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Stan
Thank you for the post - yes I would like to see the will - being new to the site not sure about the protocol of including my email address in a post but I'll try and PM you.
I can certainly confirm that Bertram was known as Bubbles within the family and I have certainly heard my grandmother refer to him as such.
Steve
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Hi all,
Thanks again all for helping us on this.
We are still trying to find at least one photo of Bertram for our ceremony coming 29th.
Also other information about him, for our final book, will be fantastic too - obviously.
Possibly a photo of him is in his (army)dossier. Does anyone know how you can obtain this?
I think that only familyrelatives are able to request for this?
Rob
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Most personal data held by the Ministry of Defence (MOD) will relate to current or former civilian staff or members of the Armed Forces.
Service records of deceased personnel
The Ministry of Defence (MOD) is the custodian of the records of service of Service personnel and Home Guard records until they are opened to general public access at The National Archives. Subject to the payment of an administration fee of £30 per record and provision of a death certificate (except where death was in service), certain information can be provided from the records of service of Service personnel on request under the publication scheme.
How to apply for the records of a deceased service person
If you wish to apply for a search you should download, complete and post to the MOD address on the Application Part 2 form the following forms.
https://www.gov.uk/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/142481/request_for_service_details_raf_application_part2_1_.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/210233/request_service_details_NOK_pt1_v6.pdf
Regards, Erik
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Rob, Erik;
I phoned Elizabeth Mack again this morning and she may have a photo of Bertram for you. She is going to have a look over the next few days. If she can find one her son will e-mail it to me and I'll send it onto you. As she is 87 years old though I wouldn't get too excited that she'll manage to provide one. 'Fingers crossed' as we say here in England.
Daisy / Stephen - email now sent to you.
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I've spoken to Elizabeth Mack again this morning and sadly she hasn't been able to find a photo of Bertram. But she will be in contact if does eventually locate one.
Rob, Erik, Ronnie, Harold; I hope all goes well for Sunday. If you could perhaps put a brief report on here after the ceremony we would be pleased to hear about it.
Best regards,
Chris.
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Hiya all... Just to let you know how the media is covering the story :
This is an item they had online today:
http://www.rtvoost.nl/nieuws/default.aspx?cat=1&nid=171875&p=209264
And we where live at a talkshow as well (regional tv)
http://www.rtvoost.nl/tv/uitzending.aspx?uid=304449 (starts at 3.05)
Ofcourse after the memorial we keep you all posted. Just check www.dk259.nl
(I am behind at the moment but I guss you know why :P)
Greetings, Erik
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Rob Eric, how did it go?
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Hiya Chris,
It was unbelievable!! The weather was great, a lot of people, many flowers and wreaths.... breathtaking!
You should check www.dk259.nl the next days... trying to get everything online soon!
And if you have facebook.. find me there and I invite you to our special group.
Erik
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Erik, could you e-mail me some photos and I'll put them on the other thread.
Thanks, and well done to you all.
Chris.
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FAO Moderators. Post / search completed.
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FAO Moderators. Post / search completed.
BBC ESSEX FOLLOW UP REPORT 30TH DECEMBER 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut7-heJMhDc&feature=youtu.be
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Just listened to the Radio Essex report - well done, very emotional.
I started reading the story on the WW2 Talk forum.
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We got him!! More info hopefully on the way soon! But finally we found his picture......
http://www.schaddelee.com/ww2/Scudder_Bertram.jpg (http://www.schaddelee.com/ww2/Scudder_Bertram.jpg)
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That's great news Erik ;D . Would it be possible to add him to the painting of the crew now you have a photograph, it would be a shame for him not to be included.
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hehehehe what do you think ? :-)
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hehehehe what do you think ? :-)
;D ;D
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Today is the anniversary of the Halifax aircraft crash and Rob Lanting, the principal Dutch researcher has sent me an image of the painting they had commissioned of the crew with Bertram Scudder now added onto it. Plus he's sent me a link to a short video they had made - the third link below. The painting can be seen at the end of this video.
I also discovered two other videos they had completed last year.
Links here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUu6KBqArYg&list=FLW4C8-kCyxXGW7tjtwKp4Lw&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTZD9EfzMko&list=FLW4C8-kCyxXGW7tjtwKp4Lw&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7YPrg7GZo8&list=FLW4C8-kCyxXGW7tjtwKp4Lw&index=3
So another worthy project has been tackled and those who have helped on here in whatever way, large or small, should give themselves a pat on the back. Important history has been preserved and recorded. Well done to all.
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What a great tribute, how wonderful of those people involved to put so much effort into the project, the Aircrew might be gone now but they will never be forgotten.
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Well.. in my opinion... We still lack info about Bertram, so the more we find.. the completer the story.. it just not ends with just his picture :)
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Well.. in my opinion... We still lack info about Bertram, so the more we find.. the completer the story.. it just not ends with just his picture :)
Erik, did you not make direct contact with Elizabeth Mack? The lady who I found for you who was able to produce the photo of Bertram. Maybe she is the best chance you have of finding out more?
Having carried out a similar project here in the U.K. for a RAF Lancaster bomber crew which we unveiled in Spring 2013 I found that some members of the crew we found lots of information about them and others very little. I was just glad that we found what we did - and even that we managed to find information about all seven of the crew at all. We had three Canadians and four British officers in that particular bomber.
A lot of people contributed in helping with the gathering of information in our project and we were very lucky.
Good luck.
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Thanks for sharing the videos Stan, they were quite emotional to watch. A great tribute to the airmen, they will never be forgotten.
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Hiya all,
Here is a new update for you:
I am now working closely with a museum in Canada. They want to start an expo about the DK259 and it's crew. They've contacted several Bellingers in the area and we had a major breakthrough.. we found them! The whole family is now digging everywhere to find anything they have on William!
The museum is also going to help to get a better contact with the Hastings and Lockhart family. They did send us some stuff, but somehow it stays very quiet so we are missing a lot of info.. But I have good faith :-)
We are still waiting on a reply from the Scudder contacts, I had phone and mail contact but still waiting for a mail with a reply on our questions.
The only problem I still have is Richard Ward Stuart. I never had a respons back from the funeral service nor the cemetary.. so I am stuck. We know we have the right one, just difficoult to get in touch with the right family members.. anyone an idea to get this last missing link complete?
Greetz, Erik
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Hi
Is he the one who died in 2003 in usa melbourne florida if so cant you track the family through his tree
ronnie
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Yes that is the one. I already tried, as the rest of the group, to find out more.. But we're based in Holland so our resources are not that well in the USA :-)
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Hello all!!
As you know we are still on the hunt for information. Over a year ago I mentioned that I found some photo's etc on Richard Ward Stuart. I just checked again and There is even more added.
My problem is, since I don't have a creditcard or Paypall account.. I can't acces it.. anyone who can? Would be higly appreciated!
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=mediaphotopublic&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=0&gss=angs-d&gsfn=Richard+Ward&gsln=stuart&uidh=ek5&gl=&gst=&hc=10&fh=0
Regards, Erik