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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: WelshYorkie on Tuesday 30 July 13 18:34 BST (UK)

Title: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: WelshYorkie on Tuesday 30 July 13 18:34 BST (UK)
Richard and Martha were married at the Parish church of Ruabon on December 28th 1850.
Martha Evans then age 20. Residence Cefn. Fathers name Sandels Pritchard - Engineer.
 I can not find any trace of Sandels Pritchard please can anyone help
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: wilcoxon on Tuesday 30 July 13 18:39 BST (UK)
Have you got the  full marriage details, was she a spinster ?
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: wrjones on Tuesday 30 July 13 18:46 BST (UK)
I'd have to say from experience that research in the area is pretty difficult as the 1841 Census for the area is lost.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: wilcoxon on Tuesday 30 July 13 19:03 BST (UK)
There is a public tree on Ancestry which has in 1851 Martha Roberts born Chirk aged 20 and Richard Roberts born Chirk 24. They are at Woodbine Woodside Cottages Chirk , is this the couple.

This tree has no parents for Martha Evans . but there is one the right age living in Chirk in 1841.
John Evans 75
Elizabeth Evans 60
Mary Evans 33
Sarah Evans 30 - then  children all under 13
Martha Evans 9

Worth a look I suppose. ;)
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: wrjones on Tuesday 30 July 13 19:09 BST (UK)
There is no Martha Evans listed in the Chirk Baptisms I have transcribed by Clwyd FHS for the years 1813=1845.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 30 July 13 19:21 BST (UK)
Looks a possible - but so far no proof.

Interestingly, I've viewed this couple before and I do have a Richard Roberts/Martha in my tree, who might well be them.

Sorry,  but I'm travelling/busy at the moment so I can't do any proper checks. Hope WR and wilcoxon may be able to follow them through. Otherwise, I'll have a look in a couple of weeks  :-\ :-\


Gadget

PS - probably it would be the Richard Roberts as I don't have a Martha Evans
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 30 July 13 19:38 BST (UK)
I suspected - now I know it:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=439645.0

Tis my cousin!

We've been in touch a while ago


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 30 July 13 19:49 BST (UK)
Can this be followed up please:

This looks like your Martha Evans on the 1841:

New Barrracks, Black Park, Brynkinallt, Chirk
HO10/139/19/9

Evans
John, 75, ag lab, not born county
Elizabeth, 60
Sarah, 30, char woman
Susanna, 12
Samuel, 13
Martha, 9
Frederick, 4
Thomas, 4
Edwin, 8  months
Mary, not born county

All others born county. 

It looks as if Sarah might be her mother but the 1841 didn't give relationships so it's just guessing.


Gadget


Gadget
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 30 July 13 20:45 BST (UK)
Have you got the  full marriage details, was she a spinster ?

28 Dec 1850, after banns, at the parish church of Ruabon.
Richard Roberts, 24, bachelor, collier, Cefn, Richard Roberts, collier
Martha Evans, 20, spinster, - , Cefn, Sandels Pritchard, engineer 
Witnesses: Thomas Richards, Charlotte Richards
Only the groom signed.
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 30 July 13 20:46 BST (UK)
Oh dear, oh dear - words fail me  ::)

Richard and Martha were married at the Parish church of Ruabon on December 28th 1850.
Martha Evans then age 20. Residence Cefn. Fathers name Sandels Pritchard - Engineer.
I can not find any trace of Sandels Pritchard please can anyone help

Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 30 July 13 21:30 BST (UK)
This might throw some light  on the family:

Edwin  - 8 mths on the 1841:

Baptism - Chirk May 2 1841 - Edwin Evans, illegitimate son of Sarah. Black Park

Nothing on the other children - Frederick, Thomas and Martha!


Telford was building roads/viaducts in the area at that time so there might well have been a few engineers associated with the constructions. Sandels/Sendels/variations* - not a name that I can see  :-\

* it can't be a poor version of Samuel, can it - the Samuel, aged 13 on the 1841 might be named for him - meer conjecture, though :-\
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: WelshYorkie on Tuesday 30 July 13 22:11 BST (UK)
Thanks wilcoxon
Yes I have the Marriage cert. She was a spinster at the time. Married in the presence of Thomas Richards and Charlotte Richards
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 30 July 13 22:12 BST (UK)
Oh dear, oh dear - words fail me  ::)

Did I do something wrong? ???

I appreciate that I haven't added anything on Sandels Pritchard and that most of the info was in the original post, but I was giving the full details as requested in post #2, including the fact that Martha was a spinster (plus ages and witnesses, and all Richard's details).
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 30 July 13 22:19 BST (UK)
Hi Deidre

I think that WY's posts  explains and also the links that I put up - Richard had been followed up 3 years ago  :-\

FindMyPast is available to many nowadays.



Gadget
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 31 July 13 08:17 BST (UK)
WY

From your other thread - I now have masses of info on the descendants of Richard Robert's sister,Maria Roberts (married John Mates), they moved to Bilston and then up here to Co. Durham and some went over to Pennsylvania (I even managed to get images of their passport photos!).

Will e-mail you the details.

I've looked high and lo in the broad Chirk area for a suitable Pritchard but nothing coming up. As I said, he could well have worked on some of Telford's schemes in the 1820s or he might have been an engine driver at Black Park colliery.  Maybe Sandels was a nickname :-\

The other thread gives some info on Martha's siblings.


Gadget
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 31 July 13 08:45 BST (UK)
Just remembered and had to look up again - on the 1871, Richard and Martha are living Upper Barracks, Black Park (RG10/2784/34/13) with son Samuel, aged 19 -  maybe Samuel = Sandels. There was the 'brother' Samuel on the 1841 though, so could be named for either.

From my Chirk records - I think Sarah Evans, probable mother of Martha, was buried 7 April 1849. Her address is given as Black Park and she was 43.


Gadget
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 31 July 13 14:37 BST (UK)
Before I start my travels!

I've found  possible Sandel alternatives:

http://www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=~sandel

so thought the Welsh one might fit:

Cynddelw http://www.whatsinaname.net/male-names/Cynddelw.html

Not sure if there are any but worth thinking on.


Gadget

PS - I'd pronounce it kuntheloo but not sure what it would sound like from a  Black Parker in 1850  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: PamSquam on Wednesday 31 July 13 16:16 BST (UK)
Just to throw another option in the mix re Sandels

My great grandfather moved to Mold, Flintshire after WW1 and was a Sandall, there a few around here and mainly from him lol It's a very common name in Lincolnshire which is where he is from.

It may not be connected but I saw this post and thought I should mention it.

Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 31 July 13 16:25 BST (UK)
Perhaps the marriage cert can be scanned , and the name of Sandels Pritchard posted as an attachment on here.

It might seem to be something else to fresh eyes  ???
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 31 July 13 16:50 BST (UK)
Hi

It's pretty clearly Sandels Pritchard. Although like Pam, I've thought of surnames, etc. A good few USA use it as a forename but otherwise a surname - quite a few in Scotland.  Also tried it as Pritchard/Richard Sandels (variations) = nothing jumps out.

Here is a snip.


Gadget

PS - definitely a P not an R - I've compared the R in Richard and Roberts  ;D
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 31 July 13 18:09 BST (UK)
Oh dear, oh dear - words fail me  ::)

Did I do something wrong? ???

I appreciate that I haven't added anything on Sandels Pritchard and that most of the info was in the original post, but I was giving the full details as requested in post #2, including the fact that Martha was a spinster (plus ages and witnesses, and all Richard's details).

This confirmed that Martha was not a widow, she could have well been a Pritchard who had married an Evans.  :)
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 31 July 13 18:16 BST (UK)
I had a look at the witnesses Thomas Richards, Charlotte Richards, to see if there were any clues there, but they were neighbours and in 1851 also living at Woodside Cottages, not Woodbine as I said in my post for Richard and Martha in 1851.

It seems they married in 1847 , and Charlotte was a Jones.
Title: Re: Richard Roberts-Martha Evans & Sandels Pritchard
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 31 July 13 18:25 BST (UK)
Could I just say that these are my relatives as well and Welsh Yorkie and I have been in touch.

I really think that you should all just cool it now, please. How many of you know anything about Chirk and our ancestors.

The link that I put up  last night would show that Martha was a spinster and we'd got lots of the info already! 

Sadly,  members don't seem to read threads anymore  :(


Gadget