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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kilkenny => Topic started by: forthefamily on Friday 26 July 13 17:14 BST (UK)
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I would be interested to know if anyone on this board is researching the Brophy family name.
The Brophys I'm looking at were baptized in St Patrick's parish with an address of Walkin Street.
Also...does anyone know if there are any old street maps of Kilkenny City online?
Thanks
mab
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Hi Mab www.osi.ie gives you free access to view historic maps. Took me a while to get the hang of using it. "zoom" in on Kilkenny city first, then you can change to 6" or 25" scale historic listed at right hand side. :) Another site which you may find useful is www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/#kilkenny conahy
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That's a very good site. Thank you:)
mab
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Hi Mab Taken from "St. Riochs Graveyard Inscriptions" by Michael O Dwyer
Records from St. Patricks Parish state that
Patrick Brophy died 20th March 1925 aged 78.
Inscriptions at St Riochs....
This stone was erected by John Brophy in memory of his beloved wife Sarah Brophy alias Halloran who died on April 17th 1783 aged 71. Also her son James Brophy who died on June 27th 1773 aged 22.
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In loving memory of James Brophy 29 Blackmill St who died on June 11th 1908. His wife Catherine died on September 4th 1933. Their daughter Sabina Salmon died on 26th January 1913.
All the above named are buried in St Riochs Graveyard
They may be of some interest to you.
:) conahy
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Thank you very much:) Every bit of information helps.
mab
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Herself and I were in Kilkenny this week. One of our objectives was to have a look at Walkin Street, the place of origin of her Brophy ancestor, a stonecutter who migrated to Dublin in the middle of the 19th century. All the indications are that the Brophys were a family of stonecutters.
We visited St. Rioch's, but because of lighting conditions and the fact that we were unprepared, were not able to decipher any Brophy headstones.
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The Brophy's are in my husband's family tree which I'm working on:)
The Brophy I'm researching is a Laurence Brophy who was a stonecutter born in Kilkenny about 1853 and also moved to Dublin. His father was a James Brophy. I think his mother may have been Mary Mines....still working on that.
Laurence was married to a Catherine McDermott but so far we haven't been able to find a marriage cert. She died and he remarried a Mary Miller in Dublin in 1891.
He's in the 1901 and 1911 Dublin census but lied about his age every time:) Two of his sons also followed in his trade. Sometime around 1914 the two sons and Laurence's brother (not sure which one) moved to Liverpool to work on the Anglican Cathedral. They were Roman Catholic.
Laurence had the following children all born Dublin with Catherine McDermott as mother:
Anne 1875
Laurence 1879 (married Annie Brophy in 1899 and is the next Brophy in my husband's line)
James 1882
Patrick 1883
Mary 1887
and with Mary Miller all born at 72 Harold's Cross Cottages, Dublin:
Mary Jane 1892
Gertrude Elizabeth 1893
Ellen 1894
Christina 1896
Mary Josephine 1899
If anything here rings a bell for you let me know:)
mab
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Herself is doing her own research, so I am not fully au fait with the story. She is also descended from James Brophy and Mary Mines (who, apparently, also came from Walkin Street) through their son John who lived at various addresses in Dublin, mostly between the Grand Canal and the Liffey.
John married in Dublin and his daughter, Mary Jane, married another stonecutter, and that is Herself's ancestral line.
By coincidence, Laurence was a near neighbour of my ancestors in Harold's Cross Cottages. I don't think Laurence actually lied about his age: in those days, people didn't really pay much attention to such things, and were fairly casual in making estimates (they become more careful, but not necessarily more truthful, when old age pensions were introduced in 1909).
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For James Brophy and Mary Mines I have found the following children (via baptisms) so far:
Johanna 1836
Mary 1838
John 1841
Laurence (#1) 1845
Patrick 1848
Mary 1850
Laurence (#2) 1853
William 1857
No doubt there may be others but they haven't surfaced so far:)
mab
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James Brophy and Mary Mines were my great-great-great-grandparents. As you may already have discovered, they were married on November 16th, 1835 in St. Patrick's parish, Kilkenny. Unfortunately, the names of their parents were not recorded in the marriage register, but the witnesses were William Brophy and Catherine Kelly.
In Griffith's Valuation of property in Kilkenny, published in 1849-50, James Brophy is listed as leasing a house, yard and garden in Walkin Street Upper from Mrs. Susanna McCreath. Living in the same street was Lawrence Mynes, who was leasing a house, offices, house and garden from Mrs. Susanna McCreath. It is possible that this Lawrence Mynes is the Laurence Mines who was recorded as baptismal sponsor to the the first Laurence Brophy, born 1845. If so, it seems likely that he was related to Mary Mines Brophy--possibly her father or brother.
His son John's marriage certificate records that James Brophy was living at 9 Cook Street, Dublin in August 1866. I'm not sure whether that means that the whole family had moved to Dublin by that date. It is certain that a number of the children of James and Mary ended up living in Dublin. The eldest, Johanna, was living at 10 Nicholas Street, Dublin, at the time of her death, which took place on May 20th, 1875. She is buried in Glasnevin Cemetery. William, the youngest, was living at 25 Cook Street, Dublin, at the time of his death, which took place on March 16th, 1896. He is buried in the same grave as his sister Johanna and his nieces Mary Anne (died 1870) and Johanna (died 1921), daughters of his brother John. John was living at 32 Queen Street, Dublin at the time of his marriage to Jane Fagan on August 28th, 1866. Over the rest of his life, he lived at around 10 different addresses in Dublin. He died on October 27th, 1910 and is buried in Glasnevin.
If you are interested, I can give you a list of the children of John Brophy and Jane Fagan.
Best wishes,
EssB
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Hello EssB
I have some of John and Jane's children but I know I don't have all of them so yes please give me that info. I would appreciate it very much :)
I have most of the info that you have given so we are definitely on the same wave length.
As I mentioned three of the Brophys (with family) went to Liverpool in 1914. I know this date as some of the children of the Brophys were registered in school there in 1914. I have that record. What I don't know is who the other two are that also left Dublin.. Do you have any connection to Liverpool by way of family?
Unfortunately I must now sign off as I have to go make dinner for my family...... ::)
mab
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Hello Mab.
Here is a list of the children of John Brophy and Jane Fagan:
1. Kate (Catherine), born 9 June 1867 at 38 Queen Street, Dublin; died 13 Nov. 1878 of Scarlatina at 21 Upper Camden Street, Dublin.
2. Mary Anne, born 15 Dec. 1868 at 4 New Row, Dublin; died 18 Jan. 1870 of Bronchitis at 4 New Row West, Dublin.
3. Mary Jane (my greatgrandmother), born 11 Aug. 1870 at 4 New Row, Dublin; died 11 Feb. 1941 of Hyperthyroidism at Ross, Mountnugent, Co. Meath. She married William Ahern of Ross Quarries in 1887 and had 14 children.
4. Anne (Annie), born 31 Jan. 1873 at 3 Merchant’s Quay, Dublin. She was unmarried and living in Dublin at the time of the 1911 census. I don't know what happened to her subsequently.
5. Johanna, born 14 Feb. 1875 at 3 Merchant’s Quay, Dublin; died 16 Oct. 1921 at 40, South Circular Road, Dolphins Barn, Dublin. She was unmarried.
6. Jane, born 30 Nov. 1876 (OR 30 Dec.) at 21 Lr Camden Street, Dublin (?Upper?); died 18 Nov. 1878 of Scarlatina at 21 Upper Camden Street, Dublin.
7. Ellen, born 27 Aug. 1878 at 21 Upper Camden Street, Dublin; died 21 August 1899 of Phthisis (TB) at Ross, Co. Meath. She was unmarried.
8. Catherine (Kate), born 19 Nov. 1880 at 6 Queen’s Square, Dublin; died 28 Sept. 1953 in Dublin. She married Leo Martinus Parker in Dublin on 3 July 1911 and had at least 2 children.
9. James, born 2 Oct. 1882 at 33 Sandwith Place, Dublin. He was unmarried and living in Dublin at the time of the 1911 census. I don't know what happened to him subsequently.
10. Jane, born 9 Jan. 1884 at 1 Finglas Road, Dublin; died 20 Mar. 1900 of Meningitis at 39 Lennox Street, Dublin.
11. John, born 1 Dec.1886 at 22 Temple Cottages, Dublin; died 3 Feb. 1896 of Bright’s Disease at 35 Lennox Street, Dublin.
12. Christina, born 28 Dec. 1888 at Ross, Mountnugent, Co. Meath. She was unmarried and living in Dublin at the time of the 1911 census. I don't know what happened to her subsequently.
I have no knowledge of Brophy family connections in Liverpool. As far as I know, the only one of Laurence's brothers who was alive in 1914 was Patrick. Please let me know if you find out more!
According to his burial record, William was married. Have you any information about his wife, and children, if any?
Good luck with your researches.
EssB
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Goodness I didn't know he had this many children. Thank you for this information.
I haven't been successful in finding a marriage for William either...as yet. There is always hope:)
Of the children of Laurence Brophy born 1853 I know that it was his son Laurence born 1879 that did go to Liverpool with his wife Annie (nee Brady) and his children. It's a strong possibility that James born abt 1882 also went. The reason I say this because he is living with his brother Laurence's family in 1911 at 31 Lower Bridge Street, Ushers Quay Ward, South Dublin. Laurence's name is spelt with a w in the census....ie Lawrence. The strangest thing is in the same household there is an uncle Laurence Brophy which makes no sense as his father was a Laurence.
Recently my husband's second cousin hired a genealogical research group in Dublin to research the Brophys. They believe that Laurence Brophy born 1853 may have been counted in two houses. Once as himself with his second wife and once as this "uncle". Who knows:) I have seen people double counted elsewhere.
What made me feel good about their findings is that what I have found so far was correct:)
I was looking at a John Brophy in Walkin's Lough in the Tithe Applotment records of 1823-1837 and wondered if he may be the next generation back.
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=brophy&firstname=john&county=Kilkenny&townland=&parish=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=&pager.offset=20
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625714/004625714_00070.pdf
mab
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From Book "In the shadow of the Steeple" Number 12 page 63
The graveyard and memorials of the Collegiate Church of St Marys, Gowran, County Kilkenny by Mary Casteleyn and Bernie Kirwan.
William BROPHY of the Black Quarry*, died 1798 age 52
Also three of his children (unnamed)
His brother James Brophy died 1787 age 24
Philip BROPHY died 1776 age 63.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilkenny_Marble
Link about Kilkenny Marble mentions Black Quarry
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That's very interesting :)
I believe that the John Brophy in Walkin's Lough in the Tithe Applotment records of 1823-1837 that I mentioned previously married a Judith Delaney 13 May 1804 at St Patricks.
I found the following baptisms for some of their children: Patrick 1805, Eleanor 1809, Mary 1810, James 1813, Anne 1819, Judith 1821 and William 1823.
The place of residence frequently mentioned was Black Quarry. That makes sense as they were a family of stone masons.
I think that the James 1813 is the one that married Mary Mines in 1835. I haven't really got any firm evidence just gut instinct...LOL
Now who are William, James and Philip?.....hmmm. I have to think about that :)
mab
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Hello EssB
I don't know if you're still around but I discovered some more info about the Brophy/Brady/Keys families buried in Glasnevin Cemetery at their website.
http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/index.xml
If you are not still visiting Rootschat it may help out other members of this family who are doing research and may one day come across this discussion.
Grave LH 261.5 St Bridget's Section
Mary Brophy died 29 Mar 1955 age 68, spinster. (she is the daughter of Catherine McDermott and Laurence Brophy below)
Laurence Brophy died 23 Jan 1923 age 61, married, stone cutter
Catherine Brophy died 8 Aug 1889 age 11 months, stone cutters child
Kate Brophy died 22 Sep 1888 age 32, stone cutters wife (this is Catherine McDermott)
Grave BK 300.5 St Bridgets Section
Mary Brady died 3 Nov 1937 age 78, widow, labourers wife (this is Mary Keys)
James Brady died 24 Mar 1901 age 43, married, labourer
Patrick Brady died 29 Nov 1890 age 1 week, labourers child
John Patrick Brady died 26 Mar 1885 age 1 year, labourers child
Grave WK 284 St Patricks Section
Bridget Farrell died 5 Mar 1926 age 61, widow, labourers widow (this is Bridget Keys who married Patrick Farrell. She is the daughter of John Keys and Elizabeth Mullaly)
John Ledwith died 26 Nov 1915 age 4 years 4 months, soldiers son (he is the son of Elizabeth Brady and John Ledwith. She is the daughter of James Brady and Mary Keys. John Ledwith's father was in the armed forces in 1915 when his son died)
Anne Keys died 01 Mar 1915 age 56 single, cook ( I don't know who she is but I think she must be a daughter of John Keys and Elizabeth Mullaly)
Elizabeth Keys died 25 Sep 1903 age 73, widow, housekeeper (this is Elizabeth Mullaly)
mab :D
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Hello, Mab.
I have just returned to researching my Brophy ancestors and am delighted to see your recent posts.
I too have been investigating the family of the John Brophy and Judith Delany who married on May 13th, 1804 in St. Patrick's. In the register of St. Patrick's that the National Library of Ireland have put online, I found baptism records of Patrick (28 April 1805), Mary (February 1810), James (14 February 1813), Margaret (26 July 1815), Mary Anne (25 March 1819) and Judith (25 February 1821). You mention a William, baptised in 1823. The records of January-June 1823 are missing from the online register, and I couldn't find William in the second half of the year. Where did you find his baptism record? You also mention an Eleanor, baptised in 1809. I found the record of this baptism, dated 30 October 1809. It seems unlikely that Eleanor and Mary can belong to the same family, as there was less than 4 months between the two baptisms.
I hope you can help me trace William's baptism! Thank you for all the information you have shared with me.
Best wishes,
EssB
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Hello EssB
I found William's baptism on Rootsireland.
The record of course does not make sense as it has his birth date as 31 Jan 1823 and his baptism as 15 Jan 1823. The address is Black Quarry and the parents are John Brophy and Judith Delany. Sponsors are Martin Lannin and C. Maher.
I have also removed Eleanor from my list as well based on the address given on the record which was Jacob Street.
mab
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Thank you so much. I greatly appreciate the prompt response.
How confident are you that John Brophy and Judith Delany are the parents of the James Brophy who married Mary Mines? The evidence I have come across so far is circumstantial but not conclusive. I suppose certainty is too much to hope for!
Regards,
EssB
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Hello EssB
Without going into all the whys and wherefores I would say I'm 99.9% sure ;D
mab
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Thank you.
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:)
I see they have the parish records indexed on Ancestry now. Much easier to find stuff. One or two are actually clearer than the records on the National Library site.
mab
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According to his burial record, William was married. Have you any information about his wife, and children, if any?
Good luck with your researches.
EssB
EssB
I found William's marriage. He married an Agnes Dorrington.
Name: William Brophy
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar, 1887
Registration district: Dublin South, Ireland
Volume: 2
Page Number: 662
FHL Film Number: 101255
I found two children: James Brophy abt 1888 and William abt 1890. I couldn't find any records.
Agnes Brophy and her two sons are living with her brother Christopher Dorrington in Dublin in 1911. I couldn't find the family in 1901. Still looking:)
Hope this link works....
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Merchant_s_Quay/Cook_St_/69033/
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EssB
Do you know when Jane Brophy nee Fagan died. I ask because I found a very confusing record on the Glasnevin Turst.
It is a burial record for a Jane Brophy. She died in 1904. She was a Stone Cutters wife 39 Lennox Street, Dublin. Informant: James Brophy, 39 Lennox Street, Dublin. The confusing thing is her age is given as 32. She is buried with John Brophy who died in 1910 and four of their children.
That address is where John Brophy was in 1901.
I wonder if the age was recorded correctly??
mab
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I have since found the marriage of William Brophy to Agnes Dorrington on IrishGenealogy.ie
They married in Dublin on Jan 30, 1887.
mab
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age 56
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1904/05612/4578294
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Christina daughter of Laurence,Stonecutter
1920
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1920/09274/5357677
B J age 55 born Dublin housekeeper married Jane Brophy ?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01igg/
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Christina daughter of John,stonecutter
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1920/09274/5357697
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Not sure about the BJ in the census???
I found lots of Brophy records yesterday on IrishGenealogy. I even discovered that Laurence Brophy and Annie Brady had a son Michael in 1912 that no one knew existed :)
mab
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My grandfather's niece (they were both Reades) researched this letter from one of the Reade brothers (James, George, William, Redmond and Richard) to a Brother Joachim, who, I believe was actually Richard.
"Your cousin Mick Brophy being at a funeral at Devonsfort on the first of May 1822 was way laid on his return home within a mile of the town and murdered by a blow of a stone. He has left a widow and a son to deplore his loss. He was comfortably situated in Flood st in a concern given him by his father. Jas and Patrick Brophy are both married in flood st and in business for themselves as is Stephen Kehoe to Paddy Mooney's daughter... your grandfather Brophy dyed the week after Mick was murdered."
I hope this helps with your search. I recently started searching my grandfather's family (Charles A. Reade, Kilkenny and Philadelphia). This letter gave me lots of names to work with, though, I haven't found much, until I found your post 😊
Cheers ~ Tracy
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Heyy! So glad I found this thread. Hope it's still active! I've been trying to research my Grandmother's family tree for her. Her surname was Gleeson, but her mother's maiden name would be Brophy. Her uncle lived on Old Callan Road in Kilkenny. They moved to Chester at some stage when she was young and then after that to Belfast.
She remembers an Uncle Mick Brophy married to Annie Brophy. They had 3 children, Michael, Noel and Pamela. Would this be the same family you are looking for?
She has been very ill lately and would love to find out a bit about her family. Her memory isn't great anymore so I'm not sure if she has the dates and places correct.
If anyone has any info about I'd really appreciate it!
Regards, David.
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Hello David
I wish I could help you but the names you mentioned aren't familiar to me. I have been able to go only so far with the records. Hopefully someone will recognize them.
The Michael Brophy I mentioned above married a Hunt.
mab
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Heyy! So glad I found this thread. Hope it's still active! I've been trying to research my Grandmother's family tree for her. Her surname was Gleeson, but her mother's maiden name would be Brophy. Her uncle lived on Old Callan Road in Kilkenny. They moved to Chester at some stage when she was young and then after that to Belfast.
She remembers an Uncle Mick Brophy married to Annie Brophy. They had 3 children, Michael, Noel and Pamela. Would this be the same family you are looking for?
She has been very ill lately and would love to find out a bit about her family. Her memory isn't great anymore so I'm not sure if she has the dates and places correct.
If anyone has any info about I'd really appreciate it!
Regards, David.
Welcome to RootsChat David
If you could give some idea of dates and your Grandmother's parents first names if you know them perhaps we can find something for you.
Don't name living people that is against RootsChat rules.
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12. Christina, born 28 Dec. 1888 at Ross, Mountnugent, Co. Meath. She was unmarried and living in Dublin at the time of the 1911 census. I don't know what happened to her subsequently.
EssB
Update: Christina Brophy married a Patrick Whelan on the 23rd June 1920. Christina's address at the time of her marriage was 40 St Thomas' Terrace. This is the same address that was given on the death record of her sister Johanna Brophy in 1921. You can get a copy of the record free from irishgenealogy.ie.
mab
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http://kilkennygraveyards.blogspot.com/2018/03/
"W Brophy Kilkenny" is included in the index of masons for Colmcilles graveyard which is near Thomastown.
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Interesting. Thank you for the link.
Mary Ann