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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: zace66 on Wednesday 24 July 13 10:12 BST (UK)

Title: Records prior to 1786
Post by: zace66 on Wednesday 24 July 13 10:12 BST (UK)
Hi there.  The help here has been amazing but I am at an enpasse on one of the legs of my research.

I have managed to get back to George Short, farmer, b 1786 who married Sarah.
They had a child George Short b 1816, d 1880 who married Mary Ann Barker.
They had Walter Short b 1852 d1929 who married Rosina Fisher.
etc etc to me here today.

However Its George and Sarah I would like to try to trace back - but dont know where to look now.  Or rather I am looking but not able to make any connection.

Any help appreciated.

Title: Re: Records prior to 1786
Post by: miriamkinga on Wednesday 24 July 13 10:49 BST (UK)
Hi Jace

You're looking at parish records now. If you post some more details re area, place of birth etc., someone may be able to help.

Best wishes

Maria
Title: Re: Records prior to 1786
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 24 July 13 15:35 BST (UK)
Walter is born c 1852 Sheffield, Yorkshire.
1851 Census George Short is born c 1816 Northwingfield (North Wingfield), Derbyshire
Mary A born c 1821 Sheffield, Her Father is with them.
Living in Sheffield, Yorkshire


1851 Census George Snr is born c Holy Moorside, Derbyshire, Occp Gardener and Sarah c 1788 Sheffield. Living in Brightside Bierlow, Yorkshire.
Son William born c 1824 Southgate, Derbyshire.

Trish :)
Title: Re: Records prior to 1786
Post by: zace66 on Wednesday 24 July 13 15:50 BST (UK)
Wow, awesome work Trish - thanks.
Does it say WHO is Mary Ann's father is?
Title: Re: Records prior to 1786
Post by: vicky0607 on Wednesday 24 July 13 16:08 BST (UK)
Here u go,

HO107/2342/108 p 15
George Short Head 35
Mary A Short  wife 30 b Sheffield
Joseph Short    1
Joseph Barker    56
Samuel Barker    11 (Mary A's brother)
   
Title: Re: Records prior to 1786
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 24 July 13 16:16 BST (UK)
Keep this on file for future ref;

Marriage;
21 December 1812, St Lawrence, North Wingfield, Derbyshire
George SHORT, Bachelor
Mary ATTS, Spinster
Both of North Wingfield Parish
(Source FreeREG)

Sarah from 1851 Census is born Yorks, so she may be a second Wife for George Snr

Christening:
WILLIAM Short, 20 April 1823, Whitwell, Derbyshire
Parents GEORGE/MARY
Siblings;
EMILY, 02 Feb 1817
ELIZABETH, 25 May 1821
JOHN, 16 Oct 1825***

***1851 Census John is in Brightside Bierlow, Yorks, down as born c 1826 Southgate, Derbyshire
Title: Re: Records prior to 1786
Post by: vicky0607 on Wednesday 24 July 13 16:34 BST (UK)

Mary ATTS, Spinster

Mary's last name is Watts

Indexing Project (Batch) NumberM05875-4
System OriginEngland-ODM
GS Film number1041094
Title: Re: Records prior to 1786
Post by: vicky0607 on Wednesday 24 July 13 16:38 BST (UK)
Mary Watts bapt 30 December 1804    NORTH WINGFIELD,DERBY daughter of James & Mary Watts
   
Title: Re: Records prior to 1786
Post by: vicky0607 on Wednesday 24 July 13 16:46 BST (UK)
oops   disregard that last one
Title: Re: Records prior to 1786
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 24 July 13 17:02 BST (UK)
Thanks for that Vicky :)

What I am trying to say is that I suspect George Jnrs Mother was Mary and George Snr remarried to a Sarah.

Now we need the Baptisms of Children born to George (poss Mother Mary) from 1812-1816 which I cant find on F/S or FreeREG.

Now this is worth noting also;

1841 Census
Sheffield, Yorkshire
HO107/1329/3/Sheffield
Geo TAYLOR, 45, Cutler
Sarah Taylor, 45
Sarah Taylor, 20
Fredk Taylor, 1
John Taylor, 15
Saml THORPE, 25, Lab, NOT born in County
Elizabeth Thorpe, 20, NOT born In County
Wm Thorpe, 1
Geo SHORT, 50, Lab, NOT born in County***
Edward BEARDSLEE, 50, Lab
Willm SHARPE, 25

1861 Census Elizabeth THORPE is born c 1822 Southgate, Derbyshire
Trees have her as nee SHORT, Parents as GEORGE/MARY nee WATTS ;D

Now there is only 2 Marriages in Yorks 1841-1851 for a George SHORT;
June 1843, Sheffield, 22 377, Sarah SHORT on same page
March 1851, York, 23 711, Sarah CLOUGH on same page


Trish :)

Title: Re: Records prior to 1786
Post by: trish1120 on Wednesday 24 July 13 17:16 BST (UK)
Possible Mary WATTS Baptised 02 Jan 1785, St Mary and All Saints, Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Father JOHN
(FreeREG)

1851 Census George Short Snr is born c 1787 Holy Moorside, Derbyshire

George SHORT Christened 27 March 1785, St Thomas, Brampton, Derbyshire
Father THOS Short

According to Genuki;
Old Brampton is~ 2 miles S SK330690 Holymoorside
Info from Familysearch;
Brampton St Thomas, Derbyshire in 1832 with eastern part of Old Brampton parish and from the parish of St Mary and All Saints Chesterfield, Derbyshire Walton, Holymoorside and part of Newbold. A chapel of ease to this parish was built in 1841 at Holymoorside. Newbold with Dunstan was created in 1861 and part of this parish transferred with others forming later in the 20th century.

Looks like Georges Death Reg;
George SHORT, June 1867, Sheffield, 9c 258, age 82 (Birth c 1785)

Cant find him on 1861 Census though !
Title: Re: Records prior to 1786
Post by: zace66 on Wednesday 24 July 13 18:49 BST (UK)
Possible Mary WATTS Baptised 02 Jan 1785, St Mary and All Saints, Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Father JOHN
(FreeREG)

1851 Census George Short Snr is born c 1787 Holy Moorside, Derbyshire

George SHORT Christened 27 March 1785, St Thomas, Brampton, Derbyshire
Father THOS Short

According to Genuki;
Old Brampton is~ 2 miles S SK330690 Holymoorside
Info from Familysearch;
Brampton St Thomas, Derbyshire in 1832 with eastern part of Old Brampton parish and from the parish of St Mary and All Saints Chesterfield, Derbyshire Walton, Holymoorside and part of Newbold. A chapel of ease to this parish was built in 1841 at Holymoorside. Newbold with Dunstan was created in 1861 and part of this parish transferred with others forming later in the 20th century.

Looks like Georges Death Reg;
George SHORT, June 1867, Sheffield, 9c 258, age 82 (Birth c 1785)

Cant find him on 1861 Census though !

Wow awesome work there - thank you so very much.
Looks like George made it to a nice ripe old age for that era.

Am i right - looking at the details, seems he was christened before he was born :p

So how to I track back to their parents into the eigthteenth century?

Title: Re: Records prior to 1786
Post by: vicky0607 on Thursday 25 July 13 14:32 BST (UK)
Hi
I found christenings on FS.   

Emily christened 02 Feb 1817 North Wingfield
Elizabeth     "     25 May 1821 Whitwell, Derby
William        "     20 Apr 1823  Whitwell
John           "     16 Oct 1825 Whitwell 
Title: Re: Records prior to 1786
Post by: vicky0607 on Thursday 25 July 13 14:48 BST (UK)
George Short Born 1816 doesn't seem to fit the christenings I just listed...    you have his parents as George & Sarah.   As I'm showing he's still with first wife during  1816.    Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Records prior to 1786
Post by: vicky0607 on Friday 26 July 13 11:37 BST (UK)
Thanks for that Vicky :)

What I am trying to say is that I suspect George Jnrs Mother was Mary and George Snr remarried to a Sarah.

Now we need the Baptisms of Children born to George (poss Mother Mary) from 1812-1816 which I cant find on F/S or FreeREG.

Now this is worth noting also;

1841 Census
Sheffield, Yorkshire
HO107/1329/3/Sheffield
Geo TAYLOR, 45, Cutler
Sarah Taylor, 45
Sarah Taylor, 20
Fredk Taylor, 1
John Taylor, 15
Saml THORPE, 25, Lab, NOT born in County
Elizabeth Thorpe, 20, NOT born In County
Wm Thorpe, 1
Geo SHORT, 50, Lab, NOT born in County***
Edward BEARDSLEE, 50, Lab
Willm SHARPE, 25

1861 Census Elizabeth THORPE is born c 1822 Southgate, Derbyshire
Trees have her as nee SHORT, Parents as GEORGE/MARY nee WATTS ;D

Now there is only 2 Marriages in Yorks 1841-1851 for a George SHORT;
June 1843, Sheffield, 22 377, Sarah SHORT on same page
March 1851, York, 23 711, Sarah CLOUGH on same page


Trish :)


Hi, 
I checked and don't find any marriages for George and Sarah  in Yorks. I didn't find any for sarah taylor or any deaths for mary....  stumpted here