RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: plewsy on Wednesday 24 July 13 08:41 BST (UK)
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hi
im hoping someone can help me find what happened to my relative
Henry Tatton Carlen ,ive heard he emigrated to Australia in the early 1900s but i cant find anything about him
hope someone can help
cheers
plewsy
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Could give some more information Henry please? His year of birth and where and his parents names including his mother's maiden name MAY help us find him.
Cheers
Cando
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hi sorry i should of told you
his parents were john william carlen and amelia henrietta tatton
he was born 15 feb 1866 in london uk
cheers
plewsy
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Which census did you last find Henry in England?
This is what I have found for a person of the same name.
There is a baptism for a Henry Tatton CARLEN on 1 Oct 1871 with parents John William CARLEN and Amelia Henrietta CARLEN at South Hackney St John of Jerusalem.
On the US 1880 census the family are living in California.
In 1896 Henry is living at Alameda California aged 30.
If this is your Henry then I suggest you post your request on the USA board.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,164.0.html
Good luck
Cando
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Yes thats him but he moved to Australia from there .
the last ive seen of him was 1900 in California
thats why im searching in australia as its been told through the family he emigrated there from america .
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Is he supposed to have immigrated to Australia with his wife Agnes and sons Alpha and Raymond, or on his own?
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we arent sure ,he had an uncle living in australia
his name was Thomas Carlen
i know on the 1940 cencus in america it states his wife is a widower
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Hi there,
Some great resources for you to use are listed on the Australian Resources board, and/or on the child boards for each of our States/territories that federated back in 1901 into the Commonwealth of Australia. So each State/territory has its own parliament, own institutions etc. So for example there's no one single BDM registry for Australia.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,399.0.html
The following thread should help to give you ideas as to what info to pop in your posts to help us to help you look up.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,368728.0.html
There's some passenger lists at this link http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx Search as a guest.
Many Cheers, JM
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A 1906 Directory still has Henry as a driver in Oakland California.
Gerry
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Is he supposed to have immigrated to Australia with his wife Agnes and sons Alpha and Raymond, or on his own?
May I please ask if these lads are definitely known to be no longer living.... (there's several females on US Census' in 1900s in California with given name Alpha)
Cheers, JM
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both born before 1896 so yes deffinately dead
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I am not at all familiar with USA searches, but perhaps of interest ....
Ukiah Cemetery
Ukiah, Mendocino, California, United States
Agnes Carlen 1873 - 1959
Raymond Carlen 1895-1962
http://billiongraves.com/pages/record/AgnesCarlen/2181039
http://billiongraves.com/pages/record/RaymondCarlen/2147471
Cheers, JM
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California Death Index
Agnes Andrews Carlen
B: 18th June 1873, California
D: 4th Sept 1959, Del Norte County.
Raymond Carlen
B: 4th April 1895, California
D: 15th Feb 1962, Mendocino County
Gerry
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thankyou for both of these ,i have this info but thankyou for searching
Plewsy
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Something is not making good sense to me....
Gerry has provided info from the California Death Index, and I have provided info from the Ukiah Cemetery. These are for Agnes and Raymond Carlen. Gerry has also likely found your chap in California in 1906.
May I please ask some questions ....
:) Have you confirmed that these death/burial details are for 'your' Henry's wife Agnes and their son Raymond?
:) If so, did they both leave California and come to Australia and then return to California?
:) Sometime between 1906 and 1940 ....
:) Have you looked for the US military service record for Raymond?
:) Was Alpha CARLEN a son or a daughter for Henry and Agnes ?
:) Where/when in Australia was Henry's uncle Thomas CARLEN ?
:) How sure are you that your Henry came to Australia ?
Cheers, JM
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yes they all are the family im looking for .
we are as sure as can be that he went to australia
Alpha was a girl
no i havent found the military records for henry
no idea when or where his uncle ended up
yes we believe the family returned to america ,probably after henrys death
whats the bit thats not making sense Jim .
cheers
Plewsy
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I am wondering if the US military records would indicate the next of kin (and nok's address) for Raymond? Perhaps that piece of info may help determine if Henry was still living circa 1917-18, as
Raymond's headstone includes:
Sgt 495 Aero Sq
World War 1
Cheers, JM
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i havent a clue how to get his records .
id just love to find what happened to Henry between 1906 and 1940 ,its been passed down the family he emigrated to australia so i have no reason to doubt it .
as i cant find a death for him in USA
PLEWSY
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Hi,
Have you tried Trove. If you cant find a mention of him you might find a mention of his uncle and be able to get a area he may have been in.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?adv=y
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Raymond Carlen No 2349300 enlisted 7th August 1917 and was discharged 22nd July 1919, California. Sgt, 495th Aero Squadron Air Service, US Army.
Gerry
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Raymond Carlen WW1 Draft Registration.
Raymond Carlen, 22, 590 33rd St, Oakland, California.
Born Oakland, California, 4th April 1895.
Machine Driver of 581, 18th St, Oakland.
5th June 1917.
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thankyou for all the replies ,all great info
cheers
plewsy
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i havent a clue how to get his records .
id just love to find what happened to Henry between 1906 and 1940 ,its been passed down the family he emigrated to australia so i have no reason to doubt it .
as i cant find a death for him in USA
PLEWSY
Have you asked how to find his records on the US Board?
I think that if you find who Raymond nominated as his next of kin for his WWI service, that that will help you to learn more about his father, Henry, at that time. I would expect the details for n o k to include name and their then current address.
There are NO Australian Census records to provide personal details of people living anywhere in Australia for the timeframe you are looking at. Historic Electoral Rolls are for British Subjects, aged at least 21 and are organised by state, then by electoral district and then by surname. US Citizens residing in Australia were not eligible to enrol.
Cheers, JM
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US 1910 Census California Alameda Oakland Township,
Supervisor’s District 3, Sheet 7A, Oakland City Ward 5
CARLEN Agnes, Lodger, F W 37 D
F being for Female
W being for White (Color or Race)
37 being for Age
D being for Divorced
If this is Raymond's mum, then Henry is NOT with her in 1910, and they had already divorced.
Cheers, JM
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Likely Raymond with his Mum's parents in 1910
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MV2Q-9VT
Raymond with his wife in 1940
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/K9Z1-7ZN
Cheers, JM
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1920 US Census
Agnes Carlen, 50, housekeeper, widowed, Belmont Precinct #2, Second Township, San Mateo, California.
Gerry
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They were divorced in 1906:
The San Francisco Call - 9th Jan 1906
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0vhh/
The San Francisco Call - 27th July 1906
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0vhi/
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Wow thankyou all so much .i cant believe they got divorced
Now i need to find what happened to him
Cheers
Thankyou all
Plewsy
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Since she divorced him for 'desertion', he may have disappeared before that. "Australia" might have been where the family thought he had gone, or what the kids were told had happened to him, but did he really?
1903 Oakland directory:
Carlen Harry T, driver Oakland Laundry, r 780 18th
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MLB8-8NM
- perhaps went to Oregon? (1910)
Possible death in 1913:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VZ71-M5K
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Thankyou so much for tht info ,it does look like its him .
i guess the family werent told about the divorce or dessertion
cheers for all the efforts of everyone
its very much appreciated
Plewsy
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I found an obituary for Alpha Hollis, who died in Oakland on 17 Nov. 1918. She was wife of the late Walter Hollis, daughter of Henry T. and Aggie Carlen, sister of Sergeant Raymond Carlen, and granddaughter of Mrs. Mary Andrews. She was also survived by a son. She was a native of Oakland, age 26 (I think? hard to read), 2 months, and 17 days.
I also found an obituary for Agnes and a death notice for Raymond, which indicates that they lived in Crescent city. Raymond was described as a boxing promoter in Agnes' obituary.
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There is an announcement in a Berkeley newspaper about the marriage Nina Busch Holbrook and Raymond F. Carlen in San Jose on 8 Sept. 1926.
There appears to be a picture of Ray here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOXER-LOU-NOVA-MANAGER-RAY-CARLEN-/250857787131
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Alpha's son was Emerson Hollis.
His birth record - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V25W-FMH
I found a newspaper article from 28 Feb. 1918 in an Oakland paper that said the wedding of Mrs. Walter E. Hollis and James O'Connell of this city was indefinitely postponed due to the illness of her son Emerson Hollis. The marriage was to have taken place a fortnight ago. Considering the time period, I wonder if Emerson's illness and Alpha's death were related to the influenza outbreak.
On the 1920 census as a boarder - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MH3Q-33K
In 1940 census (presumably "stepmother" Olive is the same Olive as in the 1920 census) - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/K94X-2NP
Enlisted in the Army during WWII - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/K8LR-4WR
Possible divorce record - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VPYZ-W2B
California death index - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VPSC-35C
Social Security death index - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JB7P-N2F
I found an obituary for Ray, which mentioned nephew Emerson living in Salinas.
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Wow Shelley
this is all amazing ill look through this properly now .
thankyou so much .
i have the photo of Ray but its the only one ive found
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You're welcome. There is a somewhat grainy picture of Ray with his obituary in the Oakland Tribune from 18 Feb. 1962. The article is available on www.newspaperarchive.com (a subscription site, but non-subscribers can see one article a day for free) or Ancestry.
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we arent sure ,he had an uncle living in australia
his name was Thomas Carlen
i know on the 1940 cencus in america it states his wife is a widower
Hi there,
I have also been posting on your other current thread on the Aussie Board. You have locked that thread.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=658608.msg5043195#msg5043195
“ its been passed down the family that Thomas Carlen went to Australia ,we dont know when or where abouts .
his parents were Thomas and Sarah but i dont know if they went .
he was born 1845 in shoreditch london
the last cencus we found was 1851 in london with his parents “
As in your quest for Henry Tatton CARLEN who we established was US of A based, and likely not ever in Australia, may I please ask again, for you to have a read through the stickied thread that our Aussie Moderator organised: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=368728.0
Something is not making good sense to me....
Gerry has provided info from the California Death Index, and I have provided info from the Ukiah Cemetery. These are for Agnes and Raymond Carlen. Gerry has also likely found your chap in California in 1906.
May I please ask some questions ....
......
:) Where/when in Australia was Henry's uncle Thomas CARLEN ?
:) How sure are you that your Henry came to Australia ?
Hi,
Have you tried Trove. If you cant find a mention of him you might find a mention of his uncle and be able to get a area he may have been in.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?adv=y
yes they all are the family im looking for .
we are as sure as can be that he went to australia
Alpha was a girl
no i havent found the military records for henry
no idea when or where his uncle ended up
yes we believe the family returned to america ,probably after henrys death
whats the bit thats not making sense Jim .
cheers
Plewsy
I am becoming quite confused by the apparently conflicting info about which of your CARLEN ancestors actually ever did come to Australia, if only for a visit.
Cheers, JM
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I have gone back over my earlier handwritten notes from looking for your Thomas when I was trying to help you re Henry CARLEN.
Re looking for any of your CARLEN family in Australia. I did find a CARLIN (note the spelling and the native place)
John CARLIN 29 from Derby (parents Thomas and Elizabeth) and his wife Mary E, 26, with a brother named as Wm Hatfield of Cooks R (likely to be Cooks River, a district in the inner western suburbs of Sydney NSW) with their three children (John 7, Thomas 5 and Florence 1) were listed on a passenger list. Ancestry has transcribed the surname as CARLEN. The passenger list is for the Duchess of Argyle, arriving Sydney 7 Feb 1883. John, his wife, and their two eldest could both read and write. The baby (Florence) sadly died on the Voyage.
Here’s the link to the FREE TO SEARCH website with passenger list IMAGES for you to check the passengers including those on the Duchess of Argyle: http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/nrs-lists/nrs-5316 (it’s the NSW State Government’s State RECORDS Office.)
I can see a John and Mary E CARLIN as parents to NSW born babies in the Newcastle district, from around 1884 to around 1888.
I can see a Thomas CARLIN in the Newcastle district of NSW on the NSW BDM indexes also. Perhaps you need to obtain the information from an official transcription of the 1906 NSW marriage cert for a Thomas CARLIN and Ethel M M Stephenson to help confirm or eliminate that Thomas CARLIN from your enquiries re CARLEN and Australia.. Here’s the link to (free to search) NSW BDM online indexes:
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html
Please read the following link also as it gives you good information about obtaining official transcriptions:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html
Cheers, JM