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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Argyllshire => Topic started by: Highlandress on Monday 22 July 13 08:47 BST (UK)
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Hi there,
Looking for details of the ancestors of this relative.
He was born in 1852 (immigration list) or 1855 (NZ marriage cert). He emigrated when he was 20 - 22
His New Zealand marriage certificate lists his parents as
Hugh McGilvray, Shepherd
Christina McCallum
I found a family on Mull Genealogy with these parents but he wasn't listed.
I can't find birth cert on Scotlands People. In fact one look up for 1856 turned out to be Neil McGilvray not Duncan.
I am interested in hearing from anyone who is working on this line.
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1861 census has a Duncan McGilvray age 9 born Torosay at Tapul House, Argyll as a cow herd in a household that includes John McGilvray age 39, a shepherd, born Kilfinichen (which is Isle of Mull). The head of household of Donald McPhail farmer of 3000 acres.
No baptism on FamilySearch for a Duncan McGilvray born 1851/1852 though, so no way of knowing whether he was John McGilvray's son or some other relative.
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Thanks for this. It's definitely a possibility.
To further confuse the issue, a vanity biography (paragraph) says that he was born in 1858 but that means that he was only 16 when he emigrated. It also spelt his name 'McGilray' but his marriage certificate suggests he couldn't write so maybe the mistakes were never picked up.
I have notes from a family member (now deceased) for the parents but I don't know what the sources were and I can't corroborate the info on Scotland's People :-\;
marriage 1849 - Loch Buie Chapel
Hugh McGILVRAY death 1879, buried at Burgh
Christina McGILVRAY death 1900, buried at Burgh
The family member's notes say he was born 'about 1850'
I'm going to search some other name spellings (McGilray, McGilway). Hopefully the Mull Genealogy site is up again.
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Family search has two other children born to:
Hugh McGilvray/ MacGillivray and Christina McCallum
Both children were born in Kinlochspelvie, Torosay, Isle of Mull
Alexander MACGILLIVRAY birth registered 14 Jul 1856
Sarah McGILVRAY b 3 dec 1858
I cannot locate this family on an 1861 census?
EDIT:
I have found daughter Sarah.
She married Hugh McMillan and at 1901 her mother Christina was still living with her:
1901: Kilmun Farm House, Dalavich, Kilchrennan
( this is not on the Island of Mull. It is on the mainland, about 12mls south of Oban)
Hugh Mcmillan 46 b Archattan, Argyll
Sarah Mcmillan 43 b Torosay. Shepherd's wife
Duncan Mcmillan 13 Son
Hugh Allan Mcmillan 7 Son
Christina Mcgillivray 83 b TOROSAY Mother In Law ***** NB could not have died in Burgh 1900!
Kate Mcgillivray 34 B Torosay Sister in Law
Robert Mclachlan 17 boarder
Neil Mcintyre 14 Boarder
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I have located them:
1851 Burg, Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon
Hugh Macgilvray 43 born Ross, Argyll Dyke Builder & H Labourer
Christie Macgilvray 30 born Burgh Wife
Flora Macgilvray 3 born Burg, daughter
1861 ( same address as above)
Hugh Macgilvray 50 b Kilfinichen Agricultural Labourer
Christian Mcgilvray 40 b Bury
Flora Mcgilvray 13 daughter
Mal Mcgilvray 9 SON b Bury **** As transcribed.
Alexr Mcgilvray 4 son
Sarah Mcgilvray 2 daughter
Cannot locate at 1871
1881: is this Christina? Visitor at :Beuanaonaich,Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon
Alexr Macphail 54
Cathrine Macphail 50
Donald Macphail 15
Angus Macphail 12
Margret Macphail 19
Christina McGilvray 60**** Visitor b Kilfinichen
1891:
Christina was living alone at Burg, and is entered as Shepherd's Widow age 70
1901 as posted above.
Death of Christina McGillivray . Other name McCallum . Age 87. Registered in Lochgilphead, Argyll 1903 (Mainland)
Death of Hugh McGilvray,. Age 75. Registered in Torosay, Argyll 1879 (Mull)
EDIT:
Found the 1871 census which was mistranscribed
Cottage at Burg Farm
Hugh Mc Gillony 63 Cow Herd
Christian Mc Gillony 51
Alexander Mc Gillony 14
Sarah Mc Gillony 12
Catherine Mc Gillony 4
From censuses 1851-1901 there does not appear to be a son named Duncan in this household
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Thanks Anne,
This looks right but it's strange that Duncan never appears in the household. Perhaps he is the boy that JMStrachan mentions above but that would make him the same age as 'Mal' who I think is Malcolm.
Perhaps he adopted a past when he emmigrated? Unless he is Alexander but I don't think they did middle names then did they? I'll take a look at Alexander's birth certificate.
Did you find all of this info on Family Search?
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The births were from Family Search but I also ran a check to confirm they were also on Scotland's People.
The rest of the info came from Ancestry census records.
I could not find the McGilivray/McCallum marriage but I wonder if either had been married before?
Hugh would be about 40 years old if he married in 1848, and wonder if he had other, older children.
It did occur to me that Duncan could be a grandchild rather than a child.
Ancestry records are transcribed and only by looking at the original for 1861, could you establish if that 9yr old boy named Mal is a mistranscription or correctly transcribed.
I will have a look at NZ electoral rolls and see if any of the other McGillivray children appear there
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Hi Annie,
I know about his children (3 daughters). I also tried to find other siblings / relatives who may have immigrated before or after him. There is another Duncan McGilvray listed in NZ BDM but I don't think he was a relative.
I checked Alex Mc in Argyllshire for marriages and deaths and didn't find a match. Now I just have to check the rest of Scotland and all the other colonies to rule out that theory. ;)
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I think you are right.
Neither Malcolm nor Alexander Left Scotland.
I think you can safely assume that Duncan and Malcom are not the same person!
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Alexander McGilivray and Georgina Lindsay married in Perthshire 1882
1891:
Ashentean House, Glenorchy, and Inishal, Argyll
Alexander McGilvera 31 b Argyll. Occ Shepherd
Georgina McGilvera 28 b Crieff, Perthshire
Isabella McGilvera 8 dau b Fife
Christena McGilvera 6 dau b Glenorchy
Grace McGilvera 4 dau born Glenorchy
Georgina McGilvera 2 dau Born Glenorchy
Hugh McGilvera 1 son b Glenorchy
(Ist son and 2nd daughter are traditionally named for thr father's parents, and above looks about right)
1901: Cadderley Farm, Muckairn, Archattan and Muckairn, Argyll
Alexander McGilvray 41 b Mull. Shepherd
Georgina McGilvray 32 wife b Crieff
Georgina McGilvray 12
Hugh McGilvray 10
Duncan McGilvray 9 son b Glenorchy
Alexander McGilvray 6 sonb Perthshire
James Burns McGilvray 4 son b Perthshire
Sarah McGilvray 3 daughter b Ardchattan
Charles McGilvray 1 son b Ardchattan
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AND Malcolm :
looks like he married Isabella McDonald in Mull 1881
1891:
BURG Kilfinichen ( Parents former home)
Malcolm McGiloray 37 b Torosay. Occ Shepherd
Isabella McGiloray 30 Wife b Kilfinichen
Hugh McGiloray 9 son b Torosay
Neil McGiloray 7 son b Torosay
Duncan McGiloray 3 son b Torosay
Alexr McGiloray 1 son B Torosay
1901 Same address as 1891
Malcolm Mcgilvray 57
Bella Mcgilvray 59
Neil Mcgilvray 17
Duncan Mcgilvray 12
Sandy Mcgilvray 11
Coll Mcgilvray 9 son B Kilfinichen
Duncan Mcgilvray 7 son b Kilfinichen ?????
Christy Mcgilvray 3 dau b Kilfinichen
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Thanks again Anne,
Now I can sit down and map out the clan!
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Hi,
Just posted a new question about the death of Christina McCallum, Abt 1816-1903 before I read your post, we have the same family of McGilvrays and you can see my public tree on Ancestry (Dunmac96, McDonald family tree (Dad.) ) for more information. I just looked on New Zealand Indexes for Duncan's death yesterday and found one 1935 age 85 years, is this correct. Would love to hear more about Duncan's family line in New Zealand.
Regards,
Duncan.
P.S. Two others on Ancestry also connected to this family in Burg, Mull, Argyleshire, Scotland.
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This is the first time I have used Rootschat. If you check on my family tree on Ancestry.com you will locate the family your looking for, my great grandfather being Alexander McGilvray born 1856 that married Georgina Sinclair Lindsay.
I have also added the photograph of Duncan McGilvray on my family tree which was taken from a book entitled "Tea with Chrissie"' its contents details the McGilvray family and the life of Chrissie and Duncan McGilvray at Burg Mull. The photograph of your Duncan was taken on a visit he made back to Mull from New Zealand.
I was born in Scotland but live in Canberra Australia
Regards
John Murdoch Loney Ross
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Thank you John, enjoy RootsChat, it can be a great help in breaking down brick walls sometimes.
Regards,
Duncan.
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Further to all of the above and per JMStrachan, Duncan appears in the 1861 Census in the next village of Tapul (Tavool).
I believe that this is the correct Duncan, simply because it has to be.
1861 Kilfinichen & Kilvickeon District 1 Page 4 Tapul House
McPhail Ann 25 Head Farmer of 3000 acres Argyllshire Torosay
McPhail Mary 17 Sister Housekeeper Argyllshire Torosay
McGillivary John 39 Servant Shepherd Argyllshire Kilfinichen
McPherson Donald 19 Servant Shepherd Argyllshire Kilmore
McLauchlin Lachlan 19 Servant Ploughman Argyllshire Movern
McLaine Margaret 23 Servant Domestic Servant Argyllshire Kilfinichen
McGillivary Duncan 9 Servant Cowherd Argyllshire Torosay ****
Burg was part of Torosay parish before it was included within Kilfinichen and Kilvickeon.
Although his age is 9, this probably means in his ninth year, so actually 8. This fits very well with brother Malcolm 1851, Duncan 1853 and Alexander 1856.
I have Duncan's parents, grandparents and G-grandparents details on site.
Michael (webmaster)
http://mullfamilies.co.uk/
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There's a Gaelic song "Duncan MacGillivray", played by a piper of that name when in the Battlefield Band, get it online. Burg in "The Wilderness" on Mull was still occupied about 30 years ago, very remote.
Skoosh.
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Yes, Burg was occupied by Chrissie McGilvray, niece of said Duncan. She didn't get electricity at her home until the late 1980s, shortly before her death. I have pics of Chrissie and one of her father Malcolm (with cows) on site
Michael (webmaster)
http://mullfamilies.co.uk/
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Michael, good to see you still keep an eye out on these connected posts :)
Monica
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Michael, I've met Chrissie, a hardy wummin, :) we were staying in the big cave with the two entrances, the goats tried to come in in the middle of the night as it was raining.
Skoosh.
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Skoosh - great stuff. I'm heading back to Mull in Sep for my 65th. Intend taking more headstone pics for my website.
Monica : I'm always on the lookout for Mull "strays". I now need someone to let me know details of the wife & children of Duncan McGilvray, with dates. Always happy to help where I can too.
Michael (webmaster)
http://mullfamilies.co.uk/