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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Viktoria on Sunday 21 July 13 22:48 BST (UK)
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Hello, I am wondering how I can find out where my grandmother from Shropshire worked when she came to Manchester ,some time between the 1891 census( when she was still with her parents) and 1896 when she married in Manchester.
She came as a servant but where to?-- her address in Manchester at her marriage was Bronze Street.
She married in St. Catherine`s ,this in the Collyhurst area near Dalton Street.
There were no houses there where servants would be employed but a little further up Rochdale Road there were ,where perhaps one domestic would be employed.
I`d love to find out where a young woman from the countryside would go to work.
Any suggestions? Thanks for any ideas. Viktoria.
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You would be surprised at the sorts of households where servants were employed. I've come across a household where the head described himself as a Labourer, but a live-in servant was there to help with the 3 children.
In my lot, one great grandmother was given a placement 25 miles away by Kirkdale Industrial School in Liverpool.
A great great grandmother, having been a servant close to home in Cheshire, travelled to Bolton. Both myself and my mother from the signatures on her marriage certificate decided that she and one of the witnesses had been taught to write by the same teacher. I looked up the witness, and found her living a quarter of a mile away from the bridegroom - and she was from the same small village.
So it may be worth looking at the marriage witnesses. They may have helped your grandmother when work in Shropshire was scarce.
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Thankyou, I have their marriage certificate. Oddly enough my father`s cousin(grandma`s sister`s son) married a girl from the same village as he and she came to the North West in about 1930 as a servant as did other girls from the village,so perhaps there was an agency.Grandma too was from that village.
She would not have been a servant for long as between 1891 and whenever she came ,and married by 1896, just a very few years.
Thankyou again. Viktoria.
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Only two entries for Bronze St in the 1895 directory:
Samuel Mills, hat manufacturer (no street number)
6 Bronze St, William Watts, shopkeeper
:) Barbara
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Thankyou Barbara,that is kind of you.I`ll go and look at my old maps of M/C an see how big the houses were--- you know were they true back to backs ,no back entrance, and for very poor people
or a bit bigger. When I think what she came from, so green and lovely and that part of M./C was so built up and overcrowded, Engel`s description is horrendous . She may have returned for her mother`s and then her father`s funerals.Also two of her brothers`. But they were very poor and she may not have been able to afford the fare .But my father knew his Shropshire relatives . He was born in 1897. She died in 1916, just as my dad went into the army aged 19. She cried and cried that he was going. Apparently he had not been a stong baby. His chest measurement at this age in his amy papers was the magnificent size of 31 inches, Six stone weakling or not he went.
Thankyou again. Viktoria.
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you know were they true back to backs ,no back entrance, and for very poor people
or a bit bigger.
The houses on Bronze Street were terraced with a backyard and an alleyway separating the properties on the street behind. Bronze Street was located about 0.4 miles North East of the area known as Angel Meadow (This is the area described by Friedrich Engels as 'the Old Town of Manchester' in 'The Condition of the Working Class in England'). Angel Meadow was roughly bounded by Miller Street, Rochdale Road, Gould Street and the River Irk.
A reporter from the 'The Manchester Guardian' wrote a series of five articles titled 'In the Slums' which were published between 16 Feb 1870 and 17 Mar 1870 - A good insight into Angel Meadow and other run-down neighbourhoods of Manchester at that time (he goes into graphic detail). These articles were followed by another series the following year titled 'The Census in The Slums' published between 3 April 1871 and 27 April 1871 (more graphic detail).
A portion of Bronze Street is shown [top-left] on Sheet CIV. 7. 7. of this 1891 map - CLICK HERE (http://enriqueta.man.ac.uk/luna/servlet/detail/maps2~1~1~339277~123105:Manchester?sort=Reference_Number%2CReference_Number%2CReference_Number%2CPage&qvq=q:1891;sort:Reference_Number%2CReference_Number%2CReference_Number%2CPage;lc:maps2~1~1&mi=49&trs=50) - (unfortunately the adjoining map isn't available)
Compare the houses to those of Angel Meadow [top-left] which contains numerous 'back to back' houses. - CLICK HERE (http://enriqueta.man.ac.uk/luna/servlet/detail/maps2~1~1~339357~123110:Manchester?sort=Reference_Number%2CReference_Number%2CReference_Number%2CPage&qvq=q:1891;sort:Reference_Number%2CReference_Number%2CReference_Number%2CPage;lc:maps2~1~1&mi=42&trs=50) -
Bronze street can be seen in full on this 1893 map [smaller scale] - CLICK HERE (http://enriqueta.man.ac.uk/luna/servlet/detail/maps2~1~1~338006~123009:Lancashire?sort=Reference_Number%2CReference_Number%2CReference_Number%2CPage&qvq=q:1893;sort:Reference_Number%2CReference_Number%2CReference_Number%2CPage;lc:maps2~1~1&mi=4&trs=9) -
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Thankyou Ron, Ive just sent you a long answer but the devil knows where it has migrated to!!
I was recommending a book which may still be available, "Sunrise to Sunset" by Mary Bertenshaw whose parents ran a lodging house in St. Michael`s square, opposite the gates of St. Michael`s church at the bottom ofAngel Street.
Although not exactly in Angel Meadow my family lived very close, and I`d love to be able to say they did because it was a very special part of M/C and despite the extreme poverty happy families did live and grow up there and became responsible citizens. No doubt due to their fantastic and formidabe mothers.My other grandma had 12 children and then adopted four more orphans.Talk about a glutton for punishment! Thankyou again for your help. Viktoria.
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Thankyou Ron, Ive just sent you a long answer but the devil knows where it has migrated to!!
I was recommending a book which may still be available, "Sunrise to Sunset" by Mary Bertenshaw whose parents ran a lodging house in St. Michael`s square, opposite the gates of St. Michael`s church at the bottom ofAngel Street.
Thanks for the recommendation, now I'm intrigued and off to find a copy. My great-grandmother was born on Ludgate Hill, then she and her family moved to Back Irk Street, which is where her mother died. After my great-grandmother married and had children they slowly moved eastwards over the years but always remained around Collyhurst. They we living in Bronze Street when my great-grandfather died.
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Right Ron the smalll book--115 pages ---was published by Pan Visuals.338/340 Liverpool road. Patricroft . Manchester. M30 ORY telephone 0161 789 5875. Bear in mind the book was published in the 1980`s .It ought to be available from the Town Hall Local history book shop. If such a thing exists nowadays.The book was read on Radio Manchester. Alan Yardley adaped it.No I.S.B.N number I`m afraid. I ought to have given you these details yesterday. Hope they help you trace a copy.
Thanks again for your info. I`m always fascinated by Angel Meadow where it was said you could be mugged by nuns and police dogs would only go in threes!!! Just joking.kind regards. Viktoria.
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Just been on the internet Ron and it is still available. Quite a lot of sources. Best of luck V.
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I've just found the book on Amazon, various copies available but at £22+ each, so not a cheap book. Did you find it anywhere else Viktoria? I'm interested as my g.grandparents lived very close to that area of Manchester from 1870s and my gran and her siblings were born there too and I'd like to read Mary Bertinshaw's autobiography, but at £22+ that's quite a lot of money to pay, especially when one of the sellers states the original rrp was £4.95 ::)
Lizzie
Modifed - I've found some cheaper ones now, but even cheaper I decided to order it from my library via the inter library system.
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Hello Viktoria
My G grandmother was born in 1860 a small village in Shropshire, Acton Burnell near Shrewsbury. On the 1881 census she is aged 21 and working in Manchester at 13 Piccadilly, The Mosley Hotel, as a Housemaid Domestic.
I'd imagined that maybe employers went to country areas to recruit staff, or at least advertised. Her sister was also in the Manchester area for a time. I too imagined the shock of inner city life for a young girl from the country. But, it's easy to forget that she came from a large, very poor family. Perhaps there were some benefits from city life, like more food, running water, and perhaps more heat in winter? In her case she met my g grandfather, and they immediately set sale for New York, and then Texas where she had 3 children. They returned by 1901, and she eventually returned to Shropshire where she died at the age of 49, and was buried, although her family stayed in Salford.
I don't know if that helps at all?
Elaine
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Hello
I just searched on line and found this available to read
Workers' Worlds: Cultures and Communities in Manchester and Salford, 1880-1939
By Andrew Davies. It refers to Sunrise to Sunset.
Elaine
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lizzie, I`m so glad you are going to get to read it.It is really interesting and written just as Mary Bertenshaw spoke. I have spoken with her on the `phone many times and she was very helpful in my search for things about my family and where they lived ie Bronze St. Telling me about the 59 steps whch led down to Collyhurst road and she sent me a present of the book. I had bought one but used it so much and lent to people that it was falling to bits. I got my first copy from the shop in the part of the Town Hall near Central Library by the gardens in St. Peter`s Square.
Kind regards. Viktoria.
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Elaine, both your replies are very interesting and useful. I will follow them up.
Who knows , I may find where she was in those few intervening years.She must have been in the vicinity of Bronze St. because in the 1891 census my grandfather was with his mother at Reather St, he was at Worth St on the marriage cert 1896. Bronze St and Worth St. were very close together on either side of Dalton St. I`ll look at my dad`s birth cert to see their address then(1897) She would not have entered a public house being a strict Particular baptist, so where she met him is a mystery. But if the don`t solve any queries the info you have given me will be interesting to read anyway. Thankyou again. Viktoria.
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My GG also came from Shropshire to Manchester for work as a servant, she’s worked ar 10 Buckley street and 40 Bronze street at the Hat and Feathers. Not sure if it was a pub or hatting factory?
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My G Grand mother was born in Astley just outside Shrewsbury in 1864 I was lucky enough to know her affectionately for 9 years until 1960 when she died aged 96 - she came to Garston , Liverpool as a Dressmaker - and I have just checked - she was born 12 miles from Elaines G Grandmother4 years apart ..Elaine - were you lucky enough to meet your G Grand mother ?? .....
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My GG also came from Shropshire to Manchester for work as a servant, she’s worked ar 10 Buckley street and 40 Bronze street at the Hat and Feathers. Not sure if it was a pub or hatting factory?
My grandmother was from Shropshire, up country near the Stiperstones Hills ,
Nearest biggish places were Snailbeach,Minsterley.Pontesbury then Shrewsbury.
She was born 1866 and came to Manchester as a servant .Married my grand father and my father was born 1897.
September 1916 she died just as my Dad was called up to serve in the army in WW1..
Quite a few Shropshire girls came to M/c and Liverpool.
As a big coincidence the descendant of one lives almost opposite me ,and knows the people with whom I was living as an evacuee in WW2.As they are related by marriage.
A bigger coincidence is my Grandma also lived in Bronze St. Manchester.
The address on the marriage cert!.
Viktoria.
thr
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Viktoria, my Great Grandma came form Acton Burnell which is very close to Pontesbury I think, and she had Davies relatives there. I guess the information about jobs was passed amongst the community. her sister was also in Manchester.
My G Grand mother was born in Astley just outside Shrewsbury in 1864 I was lucky enough to know her affectionately for 9 years until 1960 when she died aged 96 - she came to Garston , Liverpool as a Dressmaker - and I have just checked - she was born 12 miles from Elaines G Grandmother4 years apart ..Elaine - were you lucky enough to meet your G Grand mother ?? .....
Sadly, no. My Great Grandmother died in her 40s of heart disease, but only after she had upsticks to Texas and had 3 children there.
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I had forgotten this topic, but nice to read your up to date letters .
Davies is not my family name but us the name of the people with whom I lived after a short spell with Grandma’s family members .
They were so kind and I have very fond memories.
So prevalent is the name Davies, that “ auntie “ had that surname as a single woman but married a Davies.
Lovely people.
Cheerio.
Viktoria.