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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham => England => Durham Lookup Requests => Topic started by: John McCrea on Wednesday 17 July 13 20:24 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I am trying to trace a Kia Henry Jorgensen born 1907 in Durham, his father was Christian Jorgensen married to a Sofia Maria Jorgensen (Nee Peterson) their address in 1906 was 13 Thornton Ave, South Shields.
I can't find any of the family on the 1901 or the 1911 census, apart from one entry on the 1911 Christian Jorgensen but is down a single, so not sure if this is the correct one.
Any help in helping me with this would be appreciated as I believe this was a big family and I find it strange that I can't find them.
Very many thanks
John
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I assume this is his birth?
June qtr 1907
South Shields district vol 10a, page 908
Jorgensen, Kaj Henry
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An online tree has this documernt:
SS Baron Ramsey, arriving Boston 19th January 1937, from the port of Mariupol via Gibraltar
Jorgensen, Kaj Henry, 10 yrs at sea, Able Seaman
Engaged 28/10/1936, Newcastle Upon Tyne, age 29, Race Scandinavian, Nationality British
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I assume this is his birth?
June qtr 1907
South Shields district vol 10a, page 908
Jorgensen, Kaj Henry
Hi, many thanks for your reply, yes I do think that this is Kaj Henry's birth as he was born in South Shields. And married a Mary Jane Haveron in 1929.
And the dates fit as he was 22 years old on his marriage certificate.
Did you manage to find any information on any of the census returns?
Many thanks
John.
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An online tree has this documernt:
SS Baron Ramsey, arriving Boston 19th January 1937, from the port of Mariupol via Gibraltar
Jorgensen, Kaj Henry, 10 yrs at sea, Able Seaman
Engaged 28/10/1936, Newcastle Upon Tyne, age 29, Race Scandinavian, Nationality British
Hi again,
This looks very interesting! As I know that kaj Henry and one of his brothers both died when they both went down on the same ship the SS Halland, but I can't remember the year at the moment, if ok with you I will email you tomorrow with the rest of the details?
Thanks again
John.
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What was Christian Jorgensen's profession on Kaj Henry's birth certificate please?
There is a Christian M Jorgensen listed as engineer and member of crew on board the ship Fairder at Bedlington, Northumberland on the 1901 Census. He's listed as married, aged 34 years, born Frederiksvearn?, Norway. He could of course be a totally different person.
They're not at the address where Kaj Henry's was born on the 1911 Census, a different family are living there (as you may well know).
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Interestingly, the Christian Jorgensen who is listed as single on the 1911 Census in South Shields born c1871 would be the same age as the Christian Jorgensen who married Sofie Marie Peterson because there is a probate index entry for him in 1918 and the death says born c1871. The address on the probate is also the same as the 1911 Census.
It's possible perhaps he misunderstood the form when he completed it or was trying to cover up something? Could Sofia have perhaps returned home overseas at the time of the Census with Kaj Henry?
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Kaj, and his brother, went down on 15th September 1940.
The Tower Hill War Memorial list a Steward S A Jorgensen (age 30), on the SS Hallam as well as 3rd Engineer Officer Kaj Henry (age 33).
The tree on Ancestry shows 2 brothers:
Axel, born 1909
Svend Aage, born 1910
Tree says they were born in South Shields, but I can't see anything on FreeBMD? ::)
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The tree on Ancestry shows 2 brothers:
Axel, born 1909
Svend Aage, born 1910
This posting on an Ancestry message board also mentions the two brothers, Sven and Axel, born in South Shields :-\
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.britisles.england.dur.general/13764/mb.ashx
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The tree on Ancestry shows 2 brothers:
Axel, born 1909
Svend Aage, born 1910
This posting on an Ancestry message board also mentions the two brothers, Sven and Axel, born in South Shields :-\
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.britisles.england.dur.general/13764/mb.ashx
Hi JenB,
Yes that tree belongs to my cousin who I am trying to help out with a few bits.
Thanks again.
John.
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What actual evidence do you have that the two other brothers were born in South Shields?
As Kevin says, they don't seem to appear on freeBMD nor can I find them on the South Tyneside Registrar's site
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What was Christian Jorgensen's profession on Kaj Henry's birth certificate please?
There is a Christian M Jorgensen listed as engineer and member of crew on board the ship Fairder at Bedlington, Northumberland on the 1901 Census. He's listed as married, aged 34 years, born Frederiksvearn?, Norway. He could of course be a totally different person.
They're not at the address where Kaj Henry's was born on the 1911 Census, a different family are living there (as you may well know).
Hi smudwhisk,
Thanks for your reply, I don't have Kaj Henry's birth certificate but I do have his fathers marriage certificate that says he was a Ship Repairer (master) his father Ferdinand "Deceased"
Kaj, was also listed on other certificates as "Engineer, Merchant Navy"
other addresses are 34 Commercial Buildings, Dunston.
And,
Yarmouth House, Stai??? (could be Station?) Road, Dunston, Wickham. but this was in 1929!
I hope this helps.
John
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What actual evidence do you have that the two other brothers were born in South Shields?
As Kevin says, they don't seem to appear on freeBMD nor can I find them on the South Tyneside Registrar's site
Hi JenB,
I don't have any evidence that they were born in South Shields, I just assumed they were, and plus I have not really looked into them at length, I just thought that I have have got that information from one of the census returns.
I really am stumped now as to where to look..
John
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In light of the National Probate Calendary entry for Christian Jorgensen in 1918, with Sofia listed, I think it's safe to say that the 1911 Census entry of the "single" Christian Jorgensen is yours because its the same address. As it says probate and not administration was granted, it might be worth you getting a copy of it for his Will, if you don't already have one, to see whether anyone else is mentioned other than immediate family.
As Sven and Axel Jorgensen don't seem to have been born in the UK, it's possible that Sofia perhaps returned home which is why there is no sign of her on the 1911 Census.
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In light of the National Probate Calendary entry for Christian Jorgensen in 1918, with Sofia listed, I think it's safe to say that the 1911 Census entry of the "single" Christian Jorgensen is yours because its the same address. As it says probate and not administration was granted, it might be worth you getting a copy of it for his Will, if you don't already have one, to see whether anyone else is mentioned other than immediate family.
As Sven and Axel Jorgensen don't seem to have been born in the UK, it's possible that Sofia perhaps returned home which is why there is no sign of her on the 1911 Census.
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Never put your email address on RootsChat!
We have a PM (Personal Message) system for that!
You are leaving yourself wide open to spammers and other fraudsters, as RootsChat posts can be seen on search engines, like Google!. :o
We aren't contesting when Axel and Svende Aage were born, just WHERE they were born!
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I just thought that I have have got that information from one of the census returns.
Given their birth dates they could only be on the 1911 census, and I can't see any trace of them on the index, along with Kaj
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I just thought that I have have got that information from one of the census returns.
Given their birth dates they could only be on the 1911 census, and I can't see any trace of them on the index, along with Kaj
I've tried just entering the names and range of birth years but nothing comes up. This would tend to suggest they may well have been born overseas (and resident there in 1911) even if their father was resident in South Shields in 1911. There is an Axel Jorgensen death registration Jun qtr 1979 Newcastle upon Tyne RD, born 25 May 1909, which seems likely to be him and we know that Svende died alongside his brother Kaj Henry in 1940.
John you asked about Census returns, as has been mentioned that 1911 Census entry for Christian would definately seem to be the correct person and as I have already mentioned, if you were to get a copy of his Will it should confirm who is children were with a bit of luck. As for where Sofia came from, you may have to wait until the 1921 Census becomes available I'm afraid.
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What actual evidence do you have that the two other brothers were born in South Shields?
As Kevin says, they don't seem to appear on freeBMD nor can I find them on the South Tyneside Registrar's site
Hi JenB,
After going through some paper work I have seen some evidence that two of the brothers were born in South Shields, from Merchant Navy records it says that Kaj was born 1907 South Shields, his brother Axel/Alex born 1909 South Shields, and Svend (looks like... Harred/Harrold) born 1897 in Odense.
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In light of the National Probate Calendary entry for Christian Jorgensen in 1918, with Sofia listed, I think it's safe to say that the 1911 Census entry of the "single" Christian Jorgensen is yours because its the same address. As it says probate and not administration was granted, it might be worth you getting a copy of it for his Will, if you don't already have one, to see whether anyone else is mentioned other than immediate family.
As Sven and Axel Jorgensen don't seem to have been born in the UK, it's possible that Sofia perhaps returned home which is why there is no sign of her on the 1911 Census.
Hi smudwhisk,
If indeed Sofia did return back home would I be able to see her with her children on any passenger ship lists? And what port of leaving should I look at?
Thanks again.
John.
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In light of the National Probate Calendary entry for Christian Jorgensen in 1918, with Sofia listed, I think it's safe to say that the 1911 Census entry of the "single" Christian Jorgensen is yours because its the same address. As it says probate and not administration was granted, it might be worth you getting a copy of it for his Will, if you don't already have one, to see whether anyone else is mentioned other than immediate family.
As Sven and Axel Jorgensen don't seem to have been born in the UK, it's possible that Sofia perhaps returned home which is why there is no sign of her on the 1911 Census.
Hi smudwhisk,
I will sure to be looking into getting a copy of this will because as you say it may give more clues.
John.
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As Sven and Axel Jorgensen don't seem to have been born in the UK, it's possible that Sofia perhaps returned home which is why there is no sign of her on the 1911 Census.
Hi smudwhisk,
If indeed Sofia did return back home would I be able to see her with her children on any passenger ship lists? And what port of leaving should I look at?
Thanks again.
John.
Online passenger lists usually refer to Transatlantic or long-haul sea journeys.
As far as I know, there are no passenger lists for shipping to/from Scandinavia.
Of course, maybe then went to USA? ;D
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The SS Halland a, cargo ship was bombed and sunk in the North Sea 8 nautical miles (15 km) east of Dunbar, East Lothian, Scotland with the loss of seventeen crew.
Six Norwegian sailors are listed as having died that day on SS Halland. Panel 54 of the link below. It may be possible that the Jorgensen brothers were Anglicised enough not to be included.
http://www.warsailors.com/freefleet/survivors4.html