RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: looberta on Wednesday 10 July 13 20:46 BST (UK)
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Hi I am looking for information on John Spicer. Noted as a telegraphist in Southampton on his son's birth certificate, in 1930. His son's birth was registered on the Isle Of Wight and shows the childs mother was Ellen Spicer, even though no marriage record exists between John and Ellen and family gossip has it that they were not married. I have nothing else on John Spicer and would love to find out anything.
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Hi
I'm guessing there was no maiden name for Ellen ie Spicer formerly ???? on the birth certificate?
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FreeBMD shows just the one male birth with surname Spicer registered on the Isle of Wight in 1930, mother's maiden name Byrne. Is that the one? (I am not mentioning the given name of the child in case he is still living).
What else is known of Ellen - any idea of birthplace, birthdate or where & when she died? Any Irish links?
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Yes, that's the correct birth record and yes the son is still living. I have a copy of this birth certificate, but can find no information on the father John Spicer, noted as a telegraphist in Southampton. Does anyone know where I would find out about past employees of British Telecom or such like?
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Does anyone know where I would find out about past employees of British Telecom or such like?
A websearch brings this up:
www.btplc.com/Thegroup/BTsHistory/BTgrouparchives/index.htm
...but I've no idea whether the archive contains records of individual employees. Let us know what you find!
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Other organisations employing telegraphists are likely to have included the Post Office and the Royal Navy, as well as civilian shipping operators.
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I have all the information about Ellen Teresa Byrne as she was my Great Grandmother. b1888, d:1951. She was married (1911) to Charles Sydney Herbert Boyce and had 3 sons and 1 daughter with him. She was widowed in 1922.
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The reason I asked about Irish connections for Ellen was in case a marriage to John Spicer took place somewhere other than England & Wales ???
What was her surname at death?
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What was her surname at death?
Did she die as Ellen T Boyce aged 63 in Romsey, Mar qtr 1951?
If so it would seem unlikely she had ever been married to John Spicer.
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What was her surname at death?
Did she die as Ellen T Boyce aged 63 in Romsey, Mar qtr 1951?
If so it would seem unlikely she had ever been married to John Spicer.
Yes she died as Ellen T Boyce and her son goes by the surname of Boyce, so I don't believe John Spicer stayed around. That is her death record you mention.
I have seen the BT site you mentioned earlier, but there is not access to employee records from there, I think it may be a visit to Winchester or such.What was her surname at death?
Did she die as Ellen T Boyce aged 63 in Romsey, Mar qtr 1951?
If so it would seem unlikely she had ever been married to John Spicer.
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Hi
Was Ellen T Byrne ( aka Ella b 1887 Bodmin ) a Telegraphist and Postal Sorter herself?
As was CSHB?
( CHSB son of Charles Boyce and Rosina Catharine Knowlton/Boyce/Freeborn ? )
Ray
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I have not found anything which suggests Ellen was a postal worker, but yes her son Charles Sydney Herbert Boyce was, it is possible that she met John Spicer through this connection. Yes she is noted as Ella T Byrne in the census (Bodmin). It is strange, but the 1911 census has her newly wed to Charles and living in London. Even though she spent most of her married life in Southampton, as a matter of fact in the same house which was owned by my family up until 3 years ago.
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It is strange, but the 1911 census has her newly wed to Charles and living in London.
Are you sure? The free index suggests Charles was in Southampton in 1911:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XWQN-ZJD
...as was Ellen, still in her maiden name (NB some versions of the free index have the first name as Ella):
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XWQN-LQB
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Several Southampton Kelly's Directories are online
http://www.plimsoll.org/Southampton/streetdirectories/
You may find John in these but they only list the head of the household and no occupations.
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Hi looberta
Are you working from actual census records/pages or transcribed summaries (familysearch-type)?
You will find more detail by viewing the actual pages eg occupation "telegraphist"
Please tell us where you think that you found the couple in 1911?
I agree with what avm228 found, which is why I hinted at the 1911 detail.
Ray
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Hmm, different Charles and Ellen Boyce that had only just married then, very odd. I hadn't heard that they had spent any time in London neither, so must be wrong.
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Hi
Marriage after census?
1911 Sep Southampton 2c 67
Charles S H Boyce / Ellen T Byrne
The "other" Lambeth couple one that you mentioned ?
Mar 1911 Southwark 1d 112
Charles Boyce / Ellen Clarke
Is there any chance that you could review the loose ends in this thread and correct/fill in the gaps?
We are trying to help.
Cheers
Ray
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My apologies for the short responses which have caused confusion, but we seem to have gotten off track, I have everything I need for Charles Boyce and Ellen Byrne. The information I am unable to find is for John Spicer.
But for the record, Charles Sydney Herbert Boyce b1881 Southampton, d1922 Southampton. Telegraphist (Post Office)/ Postal telegraph clerk.
Royal Engineers, Regimental No. 71095, Rank SPR (Sapper).
First Served in France dated 07 Oct 1915.
Probate shows: Postal telegraphist, 1 Cromwell Road, Southampton. Registration district Winchester to Ella Theresa Boyce 24 May Widow 428 pounds.
Married 1911 in Southampton to Ellen Theresa Byrne b1888 Bodmin, d1951 Southampton. No work noted.
Children, Ronald Herbert Boyce, Harold Sydney Boyce, Maurice Charles Boyce, Phillis Boyce.
Also son (Living) to John Spicer, Telegraphist, Southampton.
See attached photo of Ellen and her son to John Spicer.
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Hi looberta
Are you working from actual census records/pages or transcribed summaries (familysearch-type)?
You will find more detail by viewing the actual pages eg occupation "telegraphist"
Please tell us where you think that you found the couple in 1911?
I agree with what avm228 found, which is why I hinted at the 1911 detail.
Ray
Thanks Ray, I have found 2 John Spicers both in 1925 and 1931-32 Kellys. Will look into this further.Several Southampton Kelly's Directories are online
http://www.plimsoll.org/Southampton/streetdirectories/
You may find John in these but they only list the head of the household and no occupations.
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We're not trying to take you off track, we are doing our best to help you find John Spicer.
Without any information on him other than that he lived in Southampton, was a telegraphist and fathered Ellen's child in 1930, we are trying to identify and if necessary eliminate possible avenues which might yield biographical information on him.
Had he married Ellen that would have been good news as you would have been able to order a marriage certificate and find out John's age (possibly), his address at marriage, possibly more detail on his occupation, his father's name and occupation and the identity of the witnesses. We looked at the possibility of a marriage and ruled it out.
We have then focused on the telegraphist occupation as a possible link between Charles and Ellen, on the one hand, and John on the other. We cannot give you detailed 1911 census information on this site but we have given you free index information about the whereabouts of Charles and Ellen (which you've said you didn't already know) to give you the opportunity to look up the full 1911 census entries and thus identify the employer of Charles and Ellen which in turn may be a clue to where John worked.
In your recent message you've now told us that you already knew Charles worked for the Post Office, but you hadn't mentioned that earlier - hence the time which has gone into that aspect.
The Kelly's leads and, if necessary, BT Archives look like your best bets at the moment. Let us know what you find.
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My apologies again, I didn't realise anyone would be researching on my behalf, I just thought it was a forum for sharing information that was already acquired by others. I will end the string. Thank you again for the information that you have found.
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Hi looberta,
You posted :-
"Hi I am looking for information on John Spicer............I have nothing else on John Spicer and would love to find out anything."
You posted your request on a website where the home page has :-
"This is RootsChat..............with 187,342 members ready to help you to discover your ancestry."
I am pleased to say that we only want to help. We are more than willing to help.
Please just ask should you want that help.
If no-one else has said it "WELCOME to Rootschat"
Ray