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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: sandi15 on Wednesday 10 July 13 14:40 BST (UK)
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Trying to find my granddad during WW11. He was in the RAF from '39to '45. He was a land gunner and flight mechanic based somewhere in England. I know he was injured by shrapnel during an attack and he was also awarded the DSO, the medal disappeared about 2 years ago. I don't know what squadron he was in or his service number as he never spoke about it! There's nobody left in the family now to help me so any help here would be great. Thank you
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Hi Sandi and welcome to rootschat ;D
There's a list of recipients of the DSO here : -
http://en.ww2awards.com/award/9
Is your grandfather still living? It's not permitted to post details of living people on Rootschat.
What information is it you are looking for?
Best wishes
Maria
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Hi Maria,Thanks i'll try it. Sadly my granddad died in 1973.
Mum mentioned years later but never said why he got it. It looks like me and my sisters are the next of kin.
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Best to do is apply for his service record.
The details are in a sticky message at the top of this forum.
Another form of self help is to download the free file from AIR 78 at the TNA and look up his name to see if you can find the index card for his service number (nice to have but not essential for service record).
If you fell like others can help while you await the service record, his full name would assist.
Regards
Ross
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hi.
my father was in the RAF too same time - from lancashire but his friends were all over Uk - so they didnt keep in touch afterwards - he only started to talk about it many many years afterwards and died last year - we do have some pictures , my father was in a salvage team (so different from yours)
I was going to get his records from the RAF - i think its 20 pounds or so to get them (cant rememebr) although there are one or two rules -
you have to be the next family member to get them - cant rememebr what they said but there was a special rule - i didnt know any other details
your father should still have kept his service record and for some reason he kept his knap sac - this was an imporant for them its a very strong fabric holdhall bag which for some reason was important -
unifrom/gun/boots were all handed back to the military and we thought we had a medal but we havent
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HI, Thanks for all this info. After granddad died, my auntie threw out lots of things belonging to her parents so I suppose all his papers were among them.
He signed up here in Dundee Scotland and I've no idea where he done his training but I do know he was based in England, somewhere. I also remember being told he gave the wrong age to join the then RFC before the end of WW1 but I can't find any record of him doing so. There is only one photo of him in his raf uniform which I have but doesn't show the medal so I think he got this afterwards. Would it help if I gave his name here?
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hi same . i simply have his raf pic black and white wearing like a woollen type cloth uniform and cap and tie the servicemans book doesnt hold much info - just to say her was issued with a rifle and how many round of ammo ect
hi did have a friend in scotland interestingly enough they would have been about the same age born about 1923 but he regretted not keeping in toucn with his friends - i wish i was able to get in touch with the families of the people in the pictures but hes put names like ' mr jones' on them and no first names - no ides why must have been very formal in those days - i did have the name of his sergeant in charge -
im sorry that your family have thrown things away - such is life
my fathers pic doesnt show his medal either - its a black and white portrait type pic i think the picture was taken before the medals were passed out - as far as i know he only got one medal - my father said his parents had the medals but they were not to be found - we thought we found them at one time but they were ww1 medals and my grandad s
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ha just noticed something - what does it say on the back of your grandfathers RAF pic ?
my fathers has the following -
MOVIESNAPS (RE ROBERTS)
birnbeck Chalfont Road
Milton Weston -s-Mare
if you look at the back of the pic it may give you a clue WHERE he was based ????
we are no -where near milton weston s mare so they must have had the pics done near base of regiment or somehing
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Any one can apply for a copy of a service record.
Please read the sticky message for the real gen.
Yes it would help to post his full name if you are looking to others for help.
Ross
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from - www.raf.mod.uk
quote
If you are the immediate Next of Kin or are able to provide the consent of the immediate Next of Kin you
should make your application on the Application Form Part 1 for Next of Kin or Enquirers with the Consent of
Next of Kin. A link can be found on the Service Records Information page.
Note that if you are not the immediate Next of Kin or do not have the consent of
the Next of Kin* then for a period of 25 years following the date of death the only
information that will be disclosed to you is surname; forename; rank; service
number; regiment/corps; place of birth; age; date of birth; date of death
where this occurred in service; the date an individual joined the service,
the date of leaving and any orders of chivalry and gallantry medals
(decorations of valour) awarded, some of which may already have been
announced in the London Gazette.
After this period the following information will also be disclosed, the units in which
he/she served, the dates of this service and the locations of those units;
the ranks in which the service was carried out and details of WWII '
as far as i am aware these records are confidential as ive been trying to get hold of my fathers but i did ask them as they said i could get them as he died but i have to provide evidence to support my being his next of kin - they dont just give the records out to anyone who asks as they could be giving personal info out on live people or people who just died
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Yes
As the cut and paste says
If you are not next of kin or do not have next of kin consent, then provided you provide proof of death over 25 years ago then any one can get a subset of his service record.
The OP says he died in 1973 ergo any one can apply for a copy.
Ross
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ok - apologies for that Ross didnt realise the 25 yr after 1973 as doesnt seem that long ago - !! i i must be getting old
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Hi, The photo I have is plain black & white but nothing on the back which i'm thinking was a copy but as to where the original is, I have no idea. My granddad was called David Wilkie Barnett and was born in 1901 Dundee. He died in 1973. On his pic there is what I would say his number(?) and above that near the shoulder is what looks like a bird/wings? We were always told he failed his pilot's exam but maybe that's what he told his family, I don't know. I just wish he had spoken about it before he died but were we living outside Scotland for a while and only got to see them once a year. Such a headache and I've still to trace my g.uncle who was in the Black Watch and served in India before WW11 and another granddad who was in the med core at the same time!!
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No problems,
There are a few items that can be found for any RAF serviceman who served between 1918 and mid 1970s.
One of which is his service number
The National Archives has the RAF card index which was transferred in preparation to release of all service files to them. Airmen who served prior to about 1923 but not recalled during WW2 are already released.
Just free down load the correct AIR 78 document for his surname range and as a minimum you will get your fathers service number. If he was liable to call up due to pre war service his card will be marked as F in a circle. If he was a militia or national service conscript then this will be shown as well.
Some post war card have dob.
With the service number then you can look on the web to see where it was issued and the approximate date range.
You say your father was with a Repair and Salvage Unit (RSU) - these were mainly in the Western Desert and a photo taken just after enrolment at Weston suggests that he was trade trained as airframe/engine ground crew at the local training station there.
Regards
Ross
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Hi Sandi15
I think his card is in AIR 78 as Barnett D W with service number 158404 and is marked as F in a circle to suggest pre war service training and Class F reserve for WW2.
You are correct with RFC service he appears in the muster roll for the RAF on formation 1st April
1918
http://www.britishmedals.us/files/Book6_files/raf18b.html
158,404 Barnett D W enrolled 1/12/17
Regards
Ross
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This is the link to his RFC -1918 to 1928 service record at TNA, Kew
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C12139753
It is not digitised but you can apply for a copy.
Service number block 155001 to 160000 was issued to RFC civilian boy entrants from Oct 1917 to Dec 1918
Regards
Ross
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thanks Ross -
You say your father was with a Repair and Salvage Unit (RSU) - these were mainly in the Western Desert and a photo taken just after enrolment at Weston suggests that he was trade trained as airframe/engine ground crew at the local training station there
Yes that was my father - not the other ladies whos post it was bt he was in France, belgium and borders and guard to the menin gate and thats right he WAS in the RSU !!! but this is the first time ive actually LOOKED at the BACK of the photo and didnt realise it thats where he may have been based. ( i think he was also radio operator but never actually flew the planes himslef )
for the lady whos post it is -
pic is similar to my fathers would have been taken about 1941 just shows wings on sleeve - i would suggest getting the service records for him so that you can gather more info -
they said they would be better in the RAF as conditions were better than the army so he joined at age 17 to save him being called later and possibly serve in the army
most men didnt like to talk about the war just they couldnt - they just wanted to get on with life when they came home - it took my father years and years and only just started telling us things in his 80s - not sure why he probably didnt think it would be interesting
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Wow, thanks Ross. I looked in there but couldn't find him. Will check it out. Spoke to one of my sisters and she remembers gran saying he was ground crew/land gunner. but that's all she can remember. What exactly do you mean when you mentioned class F reserve for WW2?
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Between the wars the RAF shrank to minimum levels, Uk was really only a training and admin force to supply the minimum staff requirements of the Middle East.
When the expansion period from 1935 started the lean years had caused a shortage of experienced men and these were exactly the guys that were needed to train the new recruits.
This situation continued into the Munich crisis of 1938 where the RAF struggled to train the men now coming forward into the part time RAFVR.
With 10 years service post WW1 your relative would have been highly desirable as a trade instructor for the new RAFVR and I suspect when you get his WW2 service record you will find a return to some type of RAF service 1938/1939.
On outbreak of war reserves of men who had recently left the service would be called up to embody the cadre units and release trained instructors to deal with the influx of war service volunteers enrolling.
Class F reserve was one of categories (Class A being men who had just left service and needed no new training down to Class D who had been out of service for a few years and needed a few weeks retraining before reaching unit. Class E was specialist civilian staff eg Met Men, Airline Radio Operators/Pilots and Class F prewar trained staff).
A similar situation is happening today where the Regular Army needs Territorial men to carry out active service to meet the manpower demands of tasking.
Did you realise that the whole Royal Navy currently employs less staff than the Metropolitan Police Force.
Regards
Ross
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just reading out what you may find in the RAF serviceman booklet 1940s
theres really not that much -
issued with SML rifle no 40l9690 g23
roll through sling bayonet in 1944
bandolin 50 rounds
seaboot socks dec 1944
winter vests dec 1944
i pari garters
dirty flea label ? £4
afs £8
pullover
scarf
sorry to jump on the post like that but i just got the picture out and started looking throught the things to see if there was anything to help
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Many many thanks for all the info you have given me.I'm so glad I came on this site else i'd still be looking!! Will be checking them out tomorrow, and now i'm off to find out about my other granddad who was a japenese pow during WW11. I'll be in touch..
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Hi Sandy
It may be that they mean a Ground Gunner in which case he could well have been RAF Regiment. It will really help you getting his service record as that will tell you what Sqn's he was on. If he was an RAF Regiment Ground Gunner there is an RAF Regiment Museum based at RAF Honington, which is the training depot for the Regiment of today. It is open the first Saturday of the month although it may well be closed over the winter period. It might be worth writing to the archivist there when you know which Sqn he was on :) if it was RAF Regiment.
Reference your other grandfather there is a guy who handle is ADM199 who has a lot of POW records who might be able to check if there is repatriation report for him. You might also like to look up the FEPOW Association. They have an annual service I believe in Wymondham, Norfolk that you might want to go to. You might also want to go to the National Memorial Arboretum and look at their Far East Area.
Good luck and keep us informed
Dee
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Sorry I haven't been in touch :-[. I have been asking my elder sisters what they can remember and looking through my late mothers personel papers but no luck there. It does seem however that the "medal" was what all recruits got when they done their training as my brother has this! As for my grandfathers service no, I can find no trace of that!! As I have some holidays coming up, i'm going to spend more time searching to see what I come up with. I did find out quite a lot about my other grandfather who was in the Med Core and i'll be chasing that as well. Many many thanks for all the information. If I do find him, i'll be sure to let you all know!
Sandi
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MOVIESNAPS (RE ROBERTS)
birnbeck Chalfont Road
Milton Weston -s-Mare
Hi sorry to butt in but here is a photograph of my father Alun Jones as a young man and his colleagues with the same details on the back with order No 196 I guess it would be 1941/2, my mother says he was stationed in Weston S.M. It also has signatures of I assume the others in the Photograph.
Reg Swallow,J Valentine,Joe Payne,G W Farnsworth,Mickey Hayden,H Gower, Colin West, ? Hawkins,J Pardoe and others not so clear it's not in brilliant condition but I have scanned the photograph and attached it.
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glyn -
lovely pic - just dont want you to get into trouble with the powers that be if any of the gents arre still alive though - im going to compair it to the pics i have of my father as he has written names of the people on the back of his pics i have here and one of the men (botton left) looks familiar - ill have to dig them out so might take a couple days -
hes written MR jones - on the back of one of the pics but dont build your hopes up - theere were so many jones es !!!
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Thanks andreajjj I must admit that after sending it I had a feeling that I shouldn't have attached photo or written the names on the back.Should I remove the attachment or edit out the names ?,just thought it might help some one.
Rgds oldgit
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hi Glyn,
i would try not to worry too much about it - ive written down the names anyway - the man who looks familiar on one of my dads pics is top right (sorry got mixed up)- in my dads reg (my dad was in the RAF slightly alfter the date of your pic here ) but this is purley specualtion as my dad pics are tiny tiny you need magnifying glass and are not good.
He posted the originals to the RAF museum and said 'would you like these?' and they kept them !!! these were the originals with the names on the back - now my dad did more fore the negatives donkeys years back now and i recently called the RAF museum who dug them out for me and told me who was written on the back and i wrote them on a seperate piece of paper (so this is why i may have to dig a bit) but i do rememebr mr jones as one of the people -
so this may take a bit of a dig -
all the pics I have are not like this they are working on the aircraft and capturing German equipment and the men are shirtless and capless and longer hair , they are all smoking cigarettes (so obviously look different than these)
I would keep the pic on here as its so nice unless the moderators remove it , but nice to find someone whos relative had their pic taken in the same photo place if anything