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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Berkshire => England => Berkshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: dale_j on Monday 08 July 13 05:51 BST (UK)
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Hello
Looking to see if a Millicent or Melicent REDMAN was baptised in Speen in 1808 give or take 1 year. An 1851 census entry gives her place and year of birth as "Wiltshire, Spine" and 1808. Obviously, I'm taking a punt on a number of assumptions, but Spine, Wilts does not seem to have existed.
In hope . . .
Dale
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I may be wrong but I think Speen is in Berkshire(sorry you posted under Berkshire).
Did she marry in 1856 John Keeves Pountney and in 1861 in she living as a mother in law with her daughter Charlotte Miller and son in law James E Taylor and family in Claines in Worcestershire?
RG 9 Piece 2109 Folio 7 Page 11
If so could his be her in 1871living at Edgebaston Birmingham and listed as born in Salisbury?
John R Poutney 57 Leather Merchant b Warwick
Millicent Poutney 61 b Salisbury Wiltshire
Mary Ann Dawson 23 Servant
Hannah Pritchard 19Servant
RG10 Piece 3081 Folio 17 Page 25
Kay
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The 1851 reference is Class: HO107; Piece: 1490; Folio: 734; Page: 11
And she is Millicent Miller, a widow.
The handwriting is awful! ::) And the transcription is spine, but looks to me more like Sh...?
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On Find My Past it is transcribed as Shere.
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I may be wrong but I think Speen is in Berkshire(sorry you posted under Berkshire).
Did she marry in 1856 John Keeves Pountney and in 1861 in she living as a mother in law with her daughter Charlotte Miller and son in law James E Taylor and family in Claines in Worcestershire?
RG 9 Piece 2109 Folio 7 Page 11
If so could his be her in 1871living at Edgebaston Birmingham and listed as born in Salisbury?
John R Poutney 57 Leather Merchant b Warwick
Millicent Poutney 61 b Salisbury Wiltshire
Mary Ann Dawson 23 Servant
Hannah Pritchard 19Servant
RG10 Piece 3081 Folio 17 Page 25
Kay
Yes, that would be her. I posted under Berks as I wondered if the parish had been part of Wiltshire sometime earlier, as places further east had been. With regard to the findmypast transcription, on the previous page of the census is the word "carpenter" (for Peter Pledger), where the "p" closely resembles the second letter of her birthplace. We're getting down to aspects of regional accents and transcription here, but I thought perhaps "Spine" = "Speen". It is possible that the word is "Spere"; there is one reference online [ http://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/community/getfaq.php?id=529 ] that might imply a placename but extremely localised. Interestingly, it's near Salisbury. But wouldn't the census entry refer to a parish, village or township?
KGarrad: Yes, I could have wished for better handwriting. ;D
Another point: at least two of her children were listed as born in Highworth, GLS. However, there's a Highworth in Wiltshire, as opposed to what now appears to be a tiny part of Cheltenham. I should add: her "common law" husband from 1822 to his death in 1846 was a wealthy man - William Miller of Ozleworth Park in Gloucestershire. These various places of birth (or at least baptism) for children imply a fairly mobile life.
If there was a Speen baptism to more or less match I would feel less insecure about my assumptions.
Dale
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But wouldn't the census entry refer to a parish, village or township?
Another point: at least two of her children were listed as born in Highworth, GLS. However, there's a Highworth in Wiltshire, as opposed to what now appears to be a tiny part of Cheltenham.
The 1851 census was the first to ask the question "Where were you born?".
Obviously answers vary! Some put county, or city, or town, or hamlet, or even farm!
There were (and are!) no hard and fast rules. ::)
The Gloucestershire bit is ditto'd from the lines above. It is possible that the enumerator meant dittoed from mum's line?!
EUREKA!!!
Millicent's birthplace is simply Wiltshire! ::) ;D
Written as "Wilts shire"!
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How clever - agree ;D I think she is still alive in 1881 but can't see her. Does she lift a birthplace other than Wiltshire?
Kay
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The 1851 census was the first to ask the question "Where were you born?".
Obviously answers vary! Some put county, or city, or town, or hamlet, or even farm!
There were (and are!) no hard and fast rules. ::)
The Gloucestershire bit is ditto'd from the lines above. It is possible that the enumerator meant dittoed from mum's line?!
EUREKA!!!
Millicent's birthplace is simply Wiltshire! ::) ;D
Written as "Wilts shire"!
<Blush>. You're right, I think. Enumerator wrote "Wilts". . . thought that's a bit short, and just stuck "Shire" on the end. Oh well. Great^3 grandmother Millicent remains a woman of mystery.
Dale
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How clever - agree ;D I think she is still alive in 1881 but can't see her. Does she lift a birthplace other than Wiltshire?
Kay
Probate puts her death in 1890 (in Surrey, under "Pountney"), but I have never located her in the 1871 and later censuses.
Dale
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Was the 1871 record I posted Millicent with new husband?
Kay
Edit - As below
1871 Living in Edgebaston Birmingham and listed as born in Salisbury?
John R Poutney 57 Leather Merchant b Warwick
Millicent Poutney 61 b Salisbury Wiltshire
Mary Ann Dawson 23 Servant
Hannah Pritchard 19Servant
RG10 Piece 3081 Folio 17 Page 25
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I wonder if the ages are incorrect in the 1881 census and this is the couple living at 322, Bristol Road, Edgbaston. I think the probate granted when John died in 1888 lists his last address as Bristol Road.
POUNTNEY, Jno R Married 56 Leather Merchant Retired b Birm, Warwickshire
POUNTNEY, Milicent Wife 60 b Salisbury, Wiltshire
JONES, Emma Servant 21 Gen Serv Dom
MARSH, Margt Servant 25 Gen Serv Dom
RG11 piece 2953 folio 110 page 43
Kay
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The 2nd marriage?
December qtr 1856
Burton on Trent district vol 6b, page 436
Miller, Millicent Amelia
+ and on the same page +
Pountney, John Keeves
Oops! :-[
Sorry Kay! I see you already posted this early on.
In my defence, can I just say it was on the other page of posts! ;D ;D :-X
However, I can add that her father was John Redman!
Ancestry, England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940
Marriage 13th November 1856 as outlined above.
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Just found that also on Familysearch + this;
Melicent RIDMAN Christened 01 December 1803, St Martin, Salisbury, Wiltshire
Birth 19 April 1803
Parents JOHN/ELIZ
Siblings;
ELIZABETH, 18 April 1802/Birth 19 Oct 1801
MARY ANN, 21 July 1805/Birth 13 June 1805, Buried 04 March 1806
SARAH, 24 June 1810/Birth 31 May 1810
Trish :)
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Was the 1871 record I posted Millicent with new husband?
Kay
Edit - As below
1871 Living in Edgebaston Birmingham and listed as born in Salisbury?
John R Poutney 57 Leather Merchant b Warwick
Millicent Poutney 61 b Salisbury Wiltshire
Mary Ann Dawson 23 Servant
Hannah Pritchard 19Servant
RG10 Piece 3081 Folio 17 Page 25
This is possibly her; the "R" in John's name is definite there, where other records have "K" (for "Kieves", "Keeves" - but with an "R" it doesn't sound any less probable). A bigger constraint is her age as given - 61 in 1871; great^2 grandfather was born in 1822/23.
Dale
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Just found that also on Familysearch + this;
Melicent RIDMAN Christened 01 December 1803, St Martin, Salisbury, Wiltshire
Birth 19 April 1803
Parents JOHN/ELIZ
Siblings;
ELIZABETH, 18 April 1802/Birth 19 Oct 1801
MARY ANN, 21 July 1805/Birth 13 June 1805, Buried 04 March 1806
SARAH, 24 June 1810/Birth 31 May 1810
Trish :)
That certainly looks promising, and moves her age at great^2 grandfather's birth to less awkward numbers. Although she would have to have been a bit coy about her age in later life. :)
Thanks Trish, and to everyone else too. One further question though: in genealogical circles are we content to rest on familysearch results, or should we get a direct image or transcription from the parish registers? I ask as the PRs are 16,000 km away. Might be a researcher near Salisbury perhaps?
Dale
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Hi Dale,
I think you are slightly closer to the PRs than I am. However, you may wish to contact the Wilts-OPC
who have an on-line parish clerk for Salisbury St.Martin, Wilts at this address;
http://www.wiltshire-opc.org.uk/genealogy/
If you register (its free) you can log in and access the parish directory and look to see if a certain Wilts parish has an on-line clerk and contact that person.
In this case only the "St.Martin's" registers for marriages have been transcribed, which is shown if you scroll to the bottom of the page and highlighted in green.
This marriage entry may be of some help;
St.Martin's, Salisbury.
26-9-1799 John Redman (of the parish of Hanley, Dorset) - m - Elizabeth Smith, sp.
If you find you have many baptisms, marriages & burials in Wilts you might like to see if the Wilts Family History Society have produced them on CD;
http://www.wiltshirefhs.co.uk/index.php/registers
As a disclaimer; I'm not associated with either organisation only a customer.
Hope this helps
Alan