RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Ellaosaurus on Sunday 23 June 13 15:39 BST (UK)
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Hello,
So for a few months now me and my mum have been researching our family History, we come from a man called Elias Smith and we believe him to be the son of Alice and Carnation Smith. Alice was Woodlocks sister and his brothers were Bartholemew and Cornelius. We know a lot about the three brothers but very little about Alice and Carnation (Ganation, Nathan, John) Buckley, Any info about them would be amazing, thankyou :)
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Can you clarify who 'Woodlock' is and how he fits or is needed in the research?
So is 'Buckley', Alice's maiden name ?
and is Elias you Grandfather or your Mum's Grandfather or even further back ?
and what is the timeframe please?
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Woodlock isn't really relevant to my research I just thought I would mention that he was Married to Carnations sister Justinia, what I would like to know is Do Alice (her maiden name is Smith) and Carnation Buckley have a son called Elias, my great great granddad. Thankyou :)
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Also the timeframe is the 1800's, they were travelling gypsys around Essex if that's any help :)
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ah, you said Carnation Smith earlier .... nevermind, I'll have a look in the '1800s' ...
This marriage would give you info (or should do) about Carnation & Alice fathers & occupations ...
Marriages Jun 1873
Buckley Carnation Rochford 4a 282
Smith Alice Rochford 4a 282
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As travellers, its a bit hit & miss if they were picked up on a 19th C census - and despite the pairing and knowledge of a son Elias I cant see them in 1881/91/01 etc
They seemed to be in the Rochford area at times ... so Carnation was born c1840 (if the Informant of the death was correct)
Deaths Mar 1916
Buckley Carnation Age @ Death 76 Rochford 4a 753
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Did Alice have a daur Florence ? (would be Elias sister) born Upton Park c1881.
I ask as an Alice Buckley is in the early 1900s census in Leigh on Sea (Rochford Dist), Mother in Law in the Chignell family - so Florence is her daur...
William Chignell 29 Head born Essex, a Marine Store Dealer
Florence Chignell 30 Wife Upton Park
Lavenia Chignell 5 daur
Abby Chignell 3 daur
Archie Chignell 1 son
Alice Buckley 72 MARRIED (living apart from Husband) a PEDLAR born Cambs, Soham
Ada Williams 13 Granddaur?
Johney Williams 10 Grandson?
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Yep, that seems to be her - followed them back via the daughter Florence to 1891, where they are transcribed as MUCKLEY ...
Somebody has left a note against this census entry:-
My great great great uncle was actually called Carnation Buckley not John Muckley .
Submitted by kevinscarrott on 28/09/2006
In West Tilbury in 'Fort Road Caravan Encampment' - Carnation is aka John ..
RG12/ Piece 1379 Folio 71 Page 16
John Muckley 52 HEAD a Tinman & Cutler born Essex, Brentwood
Alice Muckley 51 WIFE born Beds, Luton (strange how people change around so much!)
Elias Muckley 22 Tinman / Cutler born Essex Southend
Agnes Muckley 16 daur ditto
Matilda Muckley 14 daur born Essex, Upton Park
Florence Muckley 12 daur ditto
Prudence Muckley 16 daur ditto
The next census entry is another Traveller family - Arthur & Adeline Smith - Southend/Rochford.
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just posting this to generate an update email in case you subscribe to such - it seems you havent been back since last Sunday (23Jun13)
8)
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hi, just wanted to add my findings.
it may help or pos that it may confuse but the info I have lists alices's first husband "Josiah buckley/smith, half brother to carnation, to be the father of elias, with siblings of walter, lemantina, Arthur, Sidney and elaneor, and lazarus. then with carnation she had, agnes, prudence matilda, Florence & Beatrice.
alice listed with the chignells is the same alice smith, and she died in may 1921 in Colchester Essex. I have both of her marriage details and sencus detaisl from 1861 till death if you need them :)
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Alice Muckley 51 WIFE born Beds, Luton (strange how people change around so much!)
Not kidding - 1861 census entry for Alice and Josiah has their place of birth transcribed by Ancestry as "Sha Shinks Somewhirewis, Kent, England" which someone has annotated as "She thinks Somewhere in Kent" With them are Lemantina, 2 (who bears many spellings in her short life) and Walter (5 b royston Heath) and another 18 yr old male Buckley, (born "Wales, he told me")possibly also something like Lemantina or Lanternalina - the enumerator has left puzzled question marks beside this and Lemantina's names
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also, from British Newspaper archive free search
Saturday 23 September 1893 , Essex Newsman ,
"Carnation Buckley, an itinerant brazier, deposed to the children being kept in a very dirty state. Defendants appeared to leave them to the mercy of the ... ”
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good morning mabel
could you post the link to the newspaper search please only I cannot find it listed a sa "free" search, or possibly the exact name of the link, thank you.
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http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
It's a subscription site, but you can search free and get small snippets as I quoted - in this case from searching for Carnation Buckley
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ok thanks
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carnation buckley and alice are my great grandparents the daughter Beatrice Harris is my gran Caenation is buried in St Laurence paupers grave but I have found Alice's grave and stone in Vange churchyard her daughter was Florence chignell carnation'd dad was Joiner Buckley