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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Stuartta on Wednesday 19 June 13 21:45 BST (UK)
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Lieutenant L D Young 2nd battalion 3rd Native Natal Contingent is listed as killed at Isandlwana 22 January 1879. Does anyone know if more precise information about his given names is available?
The background to this is figuring out the fate of my 2xgreat grandmother's brother Lonsdale Denoon Young born 1858. I have BMD Birth info, and census data from 1861 and 1871, school admission 1868 and discharge 1873, which is the last I see of him. Given no England and Wales BMD Marriage or Death, it seems likely to me that he died outside of England and Wales.
Looking at the BMD Birth Index 1837-1863, there are only two boys Young with the initials L D, (and less than 20 with just L). Of the two, one can be ruled out because he shows up in a later census. The other of the two is Lonsdale Denoon Young.
I understand that it's possible the lieutenant was not from England and Wales. Even so the pool of L Youngs would appear to be quite small. If the information exists about the names of officers for 2/3NNC, I can rule in or out the Lt L D Young. So far, what I can tell, the Lt L D Young would have joined the unit as it was forming in Natal in December and was likely recruited in the Cape Colony.
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Good news the medal roll gives his name as Lonsllale (or a badly written Lonsdale) D Young - http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1686/31794_221410-00003?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fsearch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d1686%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=31794_221411-00040
Ken
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Thank you Ken,
Sure looks like the same person. I think you're right about a badly formed d, although the writer of this document seems quite clear with "ll". I suspect "Lonsllale" is a transcription error introduced when the list was compiled from a "d" that was left open on a previous list and interpreted as two ells.
Searching further, I also found an award for "Lieutenant H C Young" of the Natal Native Contingent, and I suspect that this would be his brother Heydon Charles Young, for whom I also had no records post-1873. He was the one who picked up his brother from Christ's Hospital School on the latter's discharge. Lt H C Young also served in the 1879 campaign.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1686&iid=31794_221411-00034&fn=H+C&ln=Young&st=d&ssrc=&pid=1073850
Do you or does anyone know the significance of issue voucher numbers and, for Lt H C Young under remarks the reference 68/SA/1275? That is, do they refer to other documents that can be consulted?
Anyway, thanks again, Ken. Your information has already been very helpful to me.
Alan
What other Anglo-Zulu War documents exist, especially for the NNC?
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The Issue Voucher is when the medals were sent out by the medal office. They were usually sent to the regiment for distribution. If you look a few places above another officer's medal was returned f ive years later (to the medal office) as presumeably they did not have an address for him or his family if he was killed. So you can assume LDY's medal was received by his family.
Ken
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Have you tried looking for a memorial plaque either in his school or local church?
Also, I think most officers would have left a will.
Ken
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Hi Ken:
These are great ideas. I'm not sure where I'd search for a South African will.
I did visit the South African archive site here:
http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300dl
Although there is nothing for Lonsdale Denoon Young, I did find some records establishing the appointment of Heydon Young as Postmaster of Umbilo in 1888. If Lonsdale's medal went to anyone, I expect it was to him. There is a record from MSCE (I believe this is a concerned with probate) for Heydon Charles Young, which may refer to his death. The record is dated 1912 and has S/SP Young, Isabella Mary Ann who could be his wife or daughter.
And another record for a David Heydon Denoon Young from 1913. Its source is "MHL", and I have at this point no idea what it records. But the name alone demonstrates a family connection.
Incidentally, the sister of Lonsdale Denoon and Heydon Charles Young was Euphemia Chamberlain Young who married Sir Frank Umhlali Reynolds in 1894. So, by the turn of the century three of the Young siblings had emigrated to South Africa. I'm descended from one of the two sisters who stayed behind in England - although I have emigrated to the USA.
Christ's Hospital School had no record of what had become of Lonsdale Denoon Young, and this is information that they may appreciate.
From looking for online clues to the officering of the Natal Native Contingent, I'm sure there is more in the Times of Natal during November and December 1878 as the NNC battalions were mustering. I don't have access to it. Hopefully someone on the forum will.
Alan
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Just to add to this. I have just found a reference to newspaper articles that I am seeking:
The following is from an endnote to Zulu Rising by Ian Knight:
"13. Stafford, Account, January 1938. Lieutenant L.D. Young of the 2/3rd
NNC was killed in the battle. Young’s brother, Lieutenant H.C. Young,
wrote a letter published in the Echo on 24 February 1879 in which he
claimed to have been in the camp and to have seen his brother shot
through the head before he escaped; Walter Higginson refuted this
version in the Natal Mercury of 16 May 1879, claiming that H.C. Young
had never been present at iSandlwana, but had been sick at the
Sandspruit on the day of the battle."
If anyone has access to either of these, I would be grateful.
Alan
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Said here to be the brother of Lieut. H. C. Young.
http://www.1879zuluwar.com/t1774p60-coghill-and-melvill-issue?highlight=Melville+++%2BCoghill
Also the following newspapers and others.
Birmingham Daily Post (Birmingham, England), Saturday, March 1, 1879
Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Saturday, June 07, 1879
Rex
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Ken,
Amazing! Thanks again; these are just great documents. There appears to have been a public hungry to make sense of how a modern army had been bested by the Zulus, and journalists willing to print anything without cross-checking.
Following the zuluwars forum reference, I found they cited Walter Stafford's report of how L D Young died, which is cited also in Ian Knight's Zulu Rising. I'll just have to buy the book! As historians, we know a little more about how L D Young's last moments, than we do for most of those who perished at Isandlwana.
And then we have poor H C Young who concocted the story of how he fought alongside his brother. The later reported may have it right, that some people will do anything to gain notoriety. But from a more sympathetic angle, he was possibly psychotic with grief and guilt. This is the sort of family history you can't make up!
Alan
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And thanks, Rex.
Alan
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Alan,
There's an interesting engraving in The Penny Illustrated News, which shows Lieutenant H. C. Young at Isandlwana, based purely on his story. When my collection is out of storage I will post the image should you like to see it.
Back in 1991 I spoke to Captain Stafford's niece, who recounted his story as if in first person.
Stafford in his account, published in The Natal Mercury of 22nd January 1929 gives the following information:
... The fleet-footed Zulus kept at our heels, and a small gain I had made on them was lost when at one of the dongas I came across a wounded man. After several attempts on his part to get a foot into one of my stirrups I managed to pull him up behind me. Re had an assegai wound under his arm and was so weak from loss of blood that I could hardly feel him holding me. He had managed to tell me that he was Young of Lonsdale's Horse [sic] when we got to a donga 12 feet wide. In taking the jump my horse's hind feet did not get a firm hold on the other side and it slipped. While it was recovering itself poor Young lost his seat and fell back.
The Zulus were then right on top of us, and poor Young was killed, although Harry Davis, who had come up, and I did our best for him. A little further on we came across Lieutenant Erskine, unable to go further on account of an assegai wound through the calf of one of his legs...
Regards,
John Y.
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Thank you for that account, John.
I would most certainly be interested in seeing the picture of H C Young - even though based on his imagination.
It seems on the other hand that the events were vividly etched in Walter Stafford's memory, even 50 years on. Great that you got to talk to his niece. From his account, perhaps poor Young was attempting to say his name, "Lonsdale", which Stafford heard (or remembered) as his being from Lonsdale's regiment.
Kind regards,
Alan