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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: john ashley on Saturday 11 June 05 12:39 BST (UK)
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Has anyone any information about the chapels in these villages about the years 1850/1920 - any pointers would be most appreciated.
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John
It is worth looking at the GENUKI site as below although this does not give many of the answers. Melyn-y-wig is actually in between Derwen, Bettws GG and Gwyddelwern and I cannot recall if there was/is a Chapel.
Denbighshire County Council have produced an excellent brochure titled 'Enjoy Medieval Denbighshire' (it at least used to be free). This makes reference to Churches and Chapels in Denbighshire although the information refers to a large extent to the Medieval period. I cannot see a Church/chapel in Melyn-y-wig but there are references to the other towns and others in the vicinity. I would have though it worth speaking to the Council archivist and then maybe to the respective Chapel organisations. Clwyd family history society may also provide worthwhile information.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/
http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/index.shtml
http://www.denbighshire.gov.uk/ll/LifeLong.nsf/($All)/A3812426165ABD4D80256FB7005391B8?OpenDocument
Please note the correct spelling of Melyn-y-wig and Clocaenog just in case you are surfing the web.
Peterej
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I should also suggested the National Library of Wales
http://www.llgc.org.uk
Peterej
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Many thanks for your two postings of suggestions - i will follow up these ideas - your assistance is appreciated. John.
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Hello, There is a chapel in Melyn y wig, it is opposite the old school and was still used about 3 years ago. I lived just outside the village for 5 years until 1984.
It is a typical Welsh chapel. simple and plain.
There is also a chapel in Clocaenog.
You can find photographs of both villages on the Frith postcard sites. There is one which shows the chapel in Melin y wig, but it doesn't show the chapel very clearly.
Best of luck, there is also a chapel in the next village towards Cerrig y drudion (Bettws Gwerfyl Goch) Bettws meaning bead house, so there must have been a church or cell of some description long before the present chapel. The name of Melin y Wig means the mill in the wood.
Sincerely, Rachel Bowen
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Many thanks for your message - my American cousins believe that the family made donations to the family chapel around 1880 - but we have no knowledge apart from this info - your assistance much appreciated - John Ashley in South Wales.
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Glad the info is of some use. Sorry, I typed 'bead' house instead of 'bede' house. They were small places for prayer in between larger churches and chapels - in case you don't already know. Possibly named after 'the Venerable Bede' an 8th century monk and historian. I am sure Google will come up with information about him if you want to look.
I'll try to think of the names of someone who could give you more information about the chapel.
Unfortunately many of the people who lived there when I did may well have died.
Sincerely,
Rachel Bowen
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Hello Rachel - many thanks for your latest message - every small piece of information assists - many thanks - John Ashley
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As far as Clocaenog is concerned, you could contact Michelle Moneypenny - She is French, but speaks excellent English - her husband is a painter and decorator and they live in Clocaenog, in what I think was the old post office. Moneypenny shouldn't be too difficult a name to find in the on-line telephone directory. Michelle wouldn't know anything about the chapel I don't think, but could put you in touch with someone who could.
It is really difficult to think of the names of people in Melin Y Wig, as I knew them by nick-names - very common in Wales and particularly so in that part of N.Wales. Gwil Tai Teg isn't going to help you. Gwilym lives in a farm called Tai Teg (which means the pretty houses) I never knew what his surname was. We were known as Pook T'Isa - even the name of our house, which had been there for 400 years had been shortened from Ty Isaf (Lower House) (Pook is my married name).
Most of the people I knew by those sort of names.
What you could do would be to write to the chapel and hope that someone would open the letter and help you with information. If you could find someone to write in Welsh for you, it would be good, as the area and the chapel are almost completely Welsh-speaking.
If you can't, they can all speak English, if somewhat haltingly at times, but don't let them think that anyone said that, or they would be highly offended.
Chapel is 'Y capel', and the preacher is 'Y parch'. and the correct name of the village is Melin Y Wig. I am not sure which county it is in now, as they change so often - it used to be Merionethshire. Lord Dafydd Elllis Thomas used to be the M.P. He is now something high up in the Welsh Assembly. I never knew what denomination the chapel was, it wasn't Baptist. I'll have a look on the net and see what I can find out.
Sincerely,
Rachel Bowen
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Hello again John Ashley,
This is what I found about Melin-Y-wig on the net.
community
Organisation Melinywig Community Centre
Contact Name Oswyn Williams
Contact Address Islwyn, Melinywig,
Contact Town Corwen
Contact Post Code LL21 9RE
Contact Phone No. 01490 460 339
E-Mail
Venue
Venue Address
Venue Town Melinywig
Venue Post Code
Facilities suitable for: Wheelchair users / Prams, Guide Dogs Welcome, Disabled toilets available
Explanation Various organisations hold monthly meetings ; W.I meetings ; Chapel Society; also concerts, Bingo nights, Whist Drives etc Annual General Meeting in May. Available every day for hire.
Meeting Day
Time
Input Date 22/11/2004
Web Address
Pwnc cymuned
Cymdeithas Canolfan Gymdeithasol Melinywig
Enw'r Cysylltiad Oswyn Williams
Cyfeiriad y Cysylltiad Islwyn, Melinywig,
Tref y Cysylltiad Corwen
Côd Post y Cysylltiad LL21 9RE
Rhif Ffon y Cysylltiad 01490 460 339
E-bost
Oswyn used to be the headmaster of the primary school in the village until it closed and 'merged with the primary school in the next village, the name of his house is Isfryn and it is right next tothe chapel in Melin-Y-Wig.
He will be very helpful. Tell him Rachel Pook formerly of Ty Isaf gave you the info.
(I use my maiden name for all professional purposes.)
Sincerely, Rachel Bowen
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To Rachel - you are most kind and your help and advice is much appreciated - I shall certainly write to Mr williams as it sounds as if he is the man I am looking for to answer the queries of my American cousins and my own curiosity.This family tree research can be so frustrating but so rewarding!! Many thanks again. John Ashley.
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Glad to be of help,
I loved living in Melin-y-wig - it is a paradise, but job possibilities are limited - now with the internet and e-mail it could be posible to live there and work at home, but it wasn't then.
Sincerely,
Rachel Bowen
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Hi Rachel
I've been reading the messages about Melin-y-wig with interest as I have just received a copy of a death certificate (1849) for my G G G Grandfather, Humphrey Davies. In the 1841 census he is shown as a farmer from Ty Isaf, Gwyddelwern, which appears on the death certificate as Melin-y-wig, as found by the Registrar from Ruthin.
After his death, his family was still farming at that address in 1851 with his wife Elizabeth in charge, 1861, 1871 and 1881, with his son John Davies, sister Mary Jones and her family in residence, 1891 and 1901 with Humphrey Davies' grandson Thomas Jones (Mary's son) looking after Ty Isaf.
Does this, in your experience, have any connection with your family history? Have we found the correct Ty Isaf? I'd be very pleased to hear your opinion!
Iolanthe
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Hi Rachel, again
I've just come back from a visit to North Wales and we drove over the mountain from Gwyddelwern to Melin-y-Wig to look for Ty Isaf, which I didn't manage to find. We must have taken the wrong road out as I can find it on a map!
I'm still trying to find something out about its history as my Davies ancestors farmed there in the 19th century. I'd be grateful for any snippets of information to add to my family history. When did your family live there? Are you related directly to the Davies family, or Thomas Jones?
Many thanks
Iolanthe
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Hi all,
I've been reading these posts with interest also. Quite a few of my 'oldies' were born in Tai Teg, Melin y Wig. I understand that some family members are buried in Melin y Wig chapel cemetery.
The following were all born there--- from 1868 onwards.
Mary Catherine Hughes
Edward Hughes
Elizabeth Ann Hughes
Henry Hughes, m to Dora Wynne, both buried there
Margaret Jane Hughes
Dorothy Eleanor Hughes
William Hughes
Alice Winifred Hughes
A number of the Wynne family were also born in Melin y Wig at Pentre, which i am assuming was the name of their home?
I've also come across a 'Davies' in the family connected with Melin y Wig somewhere but can't find him amongst my notes at the moment
I shall watch this space !!!!! Poli
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To Iolanthe,
I don't look at this site very often, so haven't replied.
I am not related to either of the families mentioned. We bought the house from an English couple who had bought Ty Isaf from the widower of the sister of a neighbour/family, who much to the disgust of the rest of the family had 'sold it out of the family' which in their eyes he had no right to do.
We lived there for 5 years until 1984 when we moved to France to work.
The house was built in 1642, as a one story dwelling, probably a Ty Hir (Long House) and I think a house where if you had the chimney built with smoke coming out of it by sunrise, and threw stones toutwards from this chimney in E, W, N. S directions, you could claim this amount of land. The shape of the garden suggests this. The roof had been raised in the 19th century and one can see the line where the addition was made. The people we bought the house from had added an extension, unfortunately faced with slate crazy paving. We added a porch and toilet/utility room, but we used local stone and bought slate for the floors and windowsills from the quarries in Bethesda. We were assured that the slate would last 200 years, and I said that that wouldn't do as the slate we already had was already 400 years old. The slate floors in the original part of the house were about a metre by 75 cms and at least 2.5 cms thick. They were very lovely.
We also opened up the original Inglenook fireplace, having removed 3 subsequent grates, including a black-lead 19th cent one, which had 2 huge slate slabs on either side of the accompanying chimney, built inside the original one, which as the 'new' chimney didn't go very far up, had about 200 years worth of soot on them, which went all over the house, through the ceiling, through soaked blankets put up all round the origial farm 'kitchen' to prevent this happening. We found a bread oven and a tinder alcove, which we preserved.
We also found another newer bread oven behind a false wall in the tiny 'newer' kitchen, which we also preserved complete with its cast iron door. We found old openings, and re-opened one out of this tiny kitchen to go out to the garden fitting a French Window.
Although we wanted to come to France, we would have liked to have been able to keep the house as well, but finances were not available for this.
I have not been able to locate my photographs of the house, but will try to do so and either post them here, or if you provide me with your e-mail I'll send them directly.
You are not Janet Hazell, by any chance?
It is so long since I looked at this site, that I have forgotten the details.
Sincerely,
Rachel Bowen
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Hello Polidor,
Tai Teg, is a farm and a row of what used to be almost abandoned cottages. I am sure that if they haven't been renovated, they could be and would become 'fair' (teg) again.
Gwil Tai Teg ( I didn't know his surname) was the farmer and had a very high-pitched voice.
As I am sure you know, 'Tai' is the Welsh plural of 'Ty' = house, therefore 'tai' = houses.
The chapel has a graveyard - but I never looked at the gravestones. 'Er cof am' means 'in loving memory of' if you ever go there to look.
Sincerely,
Rachel Bowen
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I remember visiting my uncle ,aunt and cousins in Lodge Uchaf ,Melin y Wig.I wonder if the property is still there.I would love to receive some information concerning the property. Ceri
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Hello, I don't know of a 'Lodge Uchaf', but There was a Ty Uchaf - meaning upper house. I don't remember seeing Lodge Uchaf on the ordnance Survey maps either. Our house, Ty Isaf was Lower House. Mrs Thomas lived in Ty Uchaf. I used to but my Christmas turkey from her. The name Ty Uchaf in speech gets shortened to Tuchaf - or even Tucha. Everyone called Mrs Thomas - Mrs Thomas Tycha - all one name. and we were Pook Tysa, or Pook Tisa, or just Tysa - as the house, built in 1642, was 'permanent', and we were transitory.
There was as well, Ty Canol - middle house. The houses were named according to their position on the hillside. These three must have been the earliest ones built.
By the way, the Mrs Thomas I used to buy my turkey from was not a young woman, and I don't remember if there were any sons (or daughters for that matter) however if there were sons, the farm might well be in the same name. Try the telephone directory.
Sincerely,
Rachel Bowen
Hope this helps.
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Thanks for your prompt respond to my query.I will check again to see if I have the right address.
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Dear John Ashley, I lived in Ty Capel i.e. the chapel house which was right by the chapel in Clocaenog. That was in 1941 as an evacuee. The chapel was a very going concern then of course but has now been removed although the house is the same as ever. I last saw it a couple of years ago.
Mr. and Mrs. Evans who lived there then looked after the chapel and also the travelling ministers who often stayed overnight. It was quite small but well constructed and had an organ of course which was played by another Mr. Evans from Tan y Llan farm down the road.
The chapel was on the road going north from the church just on the edge of the village. I have a photo of the house but there is just a blank wall where the chapel was. If I can help with info I will be glad to. Yours Alan Williams.
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Hello Alan Williams - so pleased to have your message regarding the Chapel at Clocaenog - My family is believed to have donated the lights at this chaplel and I have been trying to find a history or someone who has the knowledge I am in my 80th year and guess you are not far behind. Any further information will be appreciated.John.
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I came across this Melin-y-wig correspondence by accident. We became friends with Gwil and Memna Roberts, a lovely couple, owners of Tai Teg Mawr, and Tai Teg Canol (which was for sale) in the early seventies. The latter was bought by a Peter Freeman who fell out with Gwil who responded by demolishing all the old stone outbuildings. We bought Tai Teg Isaf around 1976, from Mr Davies, whose wife had died. He moved to Ruthin. It came with outbuildings and a rough pasture. We found from the old deeds that the house had had a very sad history, with generations of deaths recorded. I'm afraid that it never felt like a happy house. Even though we loved the valley and surroundings, we sold it on in 1985. A lady who kept huskie dogs bought it, and sold it quite recently to a young couple who have refurbished it and seem very happy there. Tai Teg Mawr, a large sheep and then cattle farm, was owned for many generations by the Roberts family. Their older son Glyn and his family have now taken over the farm.
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Hello - So pleased to receive this update as I started this subject in 2005 and it has been read over 5000 times !!!
So many interesting people have lived in these properties which have such an exciting history The post today adds to this and I am still trying to find a history of the chapel which would almost certainly answer my original query.
The present owner and farmer - Gwil - is a distant relation but to the best of my knowledge we have never met. Please keep the subject going as one day I will learn who provided and paid for the first lights in this chapel. Many thanks - Dioch yn Fawr - John Ashley.
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message removed. Posted in error
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Hi John, came across this chat as I was trying to research some history regarding the house we moved to this year Glandwr, which is just opposite to the side of Ty capel, the house is still standing, but only just. I believe it has now been bought, but has not been lived in for many years. If you want I can take a photo of the outside of it and send it to you. It is very overgrown, not sure what is going to happen to it, but I see the farmer who has bought it now and again so could ask